Racism...Forever?

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by soccernutter, Dec 31, 2015.

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  1. charlie15

    charlie15 Member+

    Mar 9, 2000
    Bethesda, Md
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    How did I guess you would go there? What a surprise that the guy who could barely agree that racism exist in Brazil is weighting on racism vs corona.
    The difference with me is that nobody could deny that Bolsonaro is a racist and a bigot (among other things).
     
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  2. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    I never denied that there was racism in Brazil. You didn't have to twist my arm. Way to twist information. Completely disingenuous.
     
  3. charlie15

    charlie15 Member+

    Mar 9, 2000
    Bethesda, Md
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Please....... I had to ask you twice for you to acknowledge it and up to now you deny that Bolsonaro's racism was a driver in his election.
     
  4. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    You're asking different things. I am not sure why you're mixing things up.
     
  5. Bootsy Collins

    Bootsy Collins Player of the Year

    Oct 18, 2004
    Capitol Hill
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
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  6. charlie15

    charlie15 Member+

    Mar 9, 2000
    Bethesda, Md
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No they are not.....Those are not separate silos. Trying to do so is at best tone deafness.
     
  7. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Time zone difference. ;)
     
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  8. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    For sure, just like blow back from left wing politics (it happens when a party is in power for a while) and people believing the bullshit that an "outsider" will clean up the corruption.


    Bolsonaro like Trump (immigration) and Duarte (drug use) got lucky and were smart to pick up on a strong motivator for a segment of the population.

    Sometimes the electorate wants to be fed bullshit and they want to eat it all up.


    https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/10/2...er-left-anger-pt-black-gay-racism-homophobia/
     
  9. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I was going to make a joke about you being a jackbooted mod well suited for modern American police work, but then realized such a joke wouldn't be funny.
     
  10. charlie15

    charlie15 Member+

    Mar 9, 2000
    Bethesda, Md
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The blowback yesterday photo opp has been massive... Good job Hope Hicks!

    President Trump triggered sharp condemnation from top religious leaders for the second time in two days on Tuesday, with Washington Archbishop Wilton Gregory slamming his visit to a D.C. shrine honoring Pope John Paul II,” the Washington Post reports.
    Said Gregory: “I find it baffling and reprehensible that any Catholic facility would allow itself to be so egregiously misused and manipulated in a fashion that violates our religious principles, which call us to defend the rights of all people, even those with whom we might disagree.”
     
  11. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Not hard to convince people when the other party oversaw the biggest known corruption scandal in the world involving Government.

    Plus, it's wise to wait and see if the guy will be corrupt or not other than just assume.
     
  12. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    I have presented you with some information about context in Brazil and you just choose to ignore and apply lens through your American experience. I could go more in depth but I am pretty sure you're mind is pretty made up so it'd be a pointless exercise.
     
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  13. charlie15

    charlie15 Member+

    Mar 9, 2000
    Bethesda, Md
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I am confused....Are you saying Bolsonaro is not corrupt?
     
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  14. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    So far as it to what's been proven, nothing even close to what happened under Lula. Pessimistically, I assume there will always be some level of corruption.
     
  15. Boandlkramer

    Boandlkramer Member+

    Apr 9, 2009
    Samma Weltmeister!
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    The mods made a new thread for the protests so this topic could be debated there without confusion...please respect that
     
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  16. charlie15

    charlie15 Member+

    Mar 9, 2000
    Bethesda, Md
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You are moving the goal posts. That was not my question.
     
  17. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Steve King lost his primary.
     
  18. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    There is a level of overt racism that exceeds what even Republican voters will accept. Unless that comes from their President, that is.
     
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  19. ChrisSSBB

    ChrisSSBB Member+

    Jun 22, 2005
    DE
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Some say he wasn’t protective enough of Trump which may be the greater transgression.
     
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  20. The Devil's Architect

    Feb 10, 2000
    The American Steppe
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I can fap to that
     
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  21. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Or, there's a level of loss of power that they won't accept.

    If King hadn't been kicked off the Ag committee, he would have won. Nah, I don't have any evidence or link for that except to point out that he's been a racist a long time, but only lost when he lost the Ag position.
     
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  22. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    This is a good thread for King's career to be commemorated. R.I.P, Congressturd King ("P" = Piles of shit)

    https://reason.com/2020/06/03/nativist-congressman-steve-king-loses-republican-primary/

    King was soundly defeated in the Republican primary for Iowa's 4th congressional district, which he has represented since 2003. With 95 percent of precincts reporting at 11 p.m. local time, King was trailing state Sen. Randy Feenstra by more than 9 percentage points in a five-way race.

    It is fitting that King's political career will effectively come to an end in a week marked by nationwide protests against racial discrimination by law enforcement. King has a long history of making what Vanity Fair once called "barely veiled" statements in support of white nationalism. He has suggested that black Americans would be more easily able to afford abortions if they stopped buying iPhones, and for years he displayed a Confederate flag in his congressional office—which doesn't even make historical sense, since Iowa did not join the confederacy.

    His history of comments about immigrants is at least as appalling. While discussing what he saw as the need for an electrified border fence 2006, King compared illegal immigrants to livestock. King has always maintained that he only opposes illegal immigration, but any honest accounting of his time in public office—including remarks like "we can't restore our civilization with somebody else's babies" and "immigrants are importing a different culture, a different civilization, and that culture and civilization, the imported one, rejects the host's culture"—would strongly suggest otherwise.

    The last straw for many Republicans may have come in 2019, when King wondered aloud during a 2019 interview with The New York Times: "white nationalist, white supremacist, Western civilization—how did that language become offensive?" He claimed the Times had misquoted him, but no one really bought it. His congressional colleagues officially rebuked him on the House floor, and Republican leaders stripped King of his committee assignments. He had trouble raising money in this election cycle, and deep-pocketed groups like the U.S. Chamber of Commerce backed Feenstra's bid to unseat him.


    I'd be interested in seeing polling among his former constituents. That may or may not have been a factor. But there isn't much doubt in my mind that it was a big factor among his big benefactors, which is why the C of C went looking for another mouthpiece.
     
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  23. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    This. I expressed that in a previous post, when I said that the right wing have become masterful at inciting their voters over things that they really don't care about: Deficits, corruption, emails, presidential orders... Why will someone think that the right wing in America is so different from that in the UK, or Russia, or Colombia, or Brazil?

    While I'm not 100% familiar with the situation in Brazil, I can tell you that the basic fundamentals are pretty much the same as the ones I've seen in the US and in Colombia:

    1. A popular leftist (or at least center-left) leader gains power and threatens the status quo by [gasp] diminishing their privilege a tiny bit.

    2. Suddenly the right wing is very concerned about the habits, lawlessness, religion, expenditures, birth place, former political connections, etc, of said leader.

    3. Using social media, MSM allies, radio, religion, they make the leftie into the incarnation of the devil and a threat to the "right kind of people"... He's an islamo fascists, a communist, a nazi sympathizer, he will bring down society to its end if he's re-elected. They use dog whistles to appeal to the racism and classism of the middle class, that fear that some of the "wrong kind of people" is getting too much from "their" government.

    4. The right wing candidate is presented as the "Law and Order" option, one that will fight for job creators, for churches, for the military, that will make [insert country name here] great again, and will stop said country from being the laughingstock of the world. Enough people will buy into this narrative to make the election close.

    5. The election occurs in a heated climate and strange things happen all over the place, from preventing people form voting, to producing results inconsistent with the exit polls or other kind of evidence.

    6. Once the right wing candidate wins and takes possession he starts a systematic attack on all the achievements of their predecessor and governs only to favor the top 1%. All those concerns about deficits, corruption, abuse of power suddenly disappear.


    To add one more point to it, the same way we find Trump tweets disparaging Obama 4 years ago, that funnily apply to him like a glove, in Colombia we have tweets from the president and vice president showing their fury about their predecessor's policies that apply perfectly to them; there's a PR consultant working for the president that is now known as "The Oracle", because you can find tweets about him criticizing the previous administration for something the current government is doing, almost on a daily basis.

    So, in short, I think that Charlie15 is correct; Bolsonaro at the end was not elected to fight corruption; he was elected because poor and black Brazilians were getting more from Lula and that was costing some rich Brazilians. Bolsonaro voters don't care about him being a prickish corrupt authoritarian, because he is their prickish corrupt authoritarian.

    PS: The most puzzling thing about the right wingers are how evidently stupid and inept they are, to those who care to pay attention; they are ignorant, buffoonish, foolish and vain; in contrast the left wing candidate, despite their flaws, offer substance and have a solid and well built platform, but that doesn't really matter to a big portion of the electorate.
     
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  24. onefineesq

    onefineesq Member+

    Sep 16, 2003
    Laurel, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Republican voters only stopped "accept(ing)" it because King's power in government was trashed. If the Republicans in Congress hadn't emasculated him, King would have won again. You know it and I know it. His racism, to the generic Republican voter, wasn't an issue.

    Edit: I see that superdave beat me to the punch.
     
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  25. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    I will address more in detail later ... but a couple of quick points (1) you ignore the real corruption by the left wing party and make it seem like it was all made up and (2) ironically enough, Bolsonaro has worked to expand social welfare (which is not what he campaigned on .. so go figure).
     

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