What is the problem with Canada?

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by LouisianaViking07/09, Jun 11, 2016.

  1. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ummmm...weren't Telfer and Welshman both on loan to CPL teams from MLS teams?
     
    An Unpaved Road repped this.
  2. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    They were, both credited CPL allowing them to be seen which allowed them to be sold to Europe.

    I'm not claiming in the case of these 2 that they were signed "from" CPL but "while" they were playing in CPL.

    Both were dominant for their respective teams during the season.

    You could say that this should convince MLS clubs to loan to CPL as the league demonstrated it's ability to raise player's value which ends up being beneficial to those clubs with transfer fees.
     
  3. An Unpaved Road

    An Unpaved Road Member+

    Mar 22, 2006
    Club:
    --other--
    That's some important context, thanks for adding.
     
  4. Ofori

    Ofori Red Card

    Inter Milan
    Ghana
    May 9, 2020
    CPL stars should get to Europe or to any other league on their own merits not by loan
     
  5. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Loans are a reality everywhere else and it's part of the system. EPL loans players to Belgium or Netherlands all the time.

    CPL needs to be part of that system too, not segregate itself from what's being done elsewhere.

    It will happen that loaned guys will breakthrough in CPL, raising their values and end up being transferred to Europe. This is a positive for the league as it reinforces the trust of other leagues into CPL. More higher profile league will be willing to loan to CPL and more of those leagues will be willing to buy directly from CPL.
     
    Ofori repped this.
  6. Ofori

    Ofori Red Card

    Inter Milan
    Ghana
    May 9, 2020
    That makes sense but what stars will want to go to CPL
     
  7. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    CPL will be creating it`s own stars like Tristan Borges (MVP), Easton Ongaro (Giant-6`6 striker) and Terran Campbell (we call him Hulk).

    Most players wants to play rather than being nailed to the bench, that`s why you have loans.

    Also, Ryan Telfer made TFC loan him to York in CPL because he didn`t want to go to USL in Ottawa. Lots of players are catching on that USL is a dead end. David Choiniere left Montreal Impact to go play for Forge in CPL because they wanted to loan him to USL in Ottawa. He ended up scoring the winning goal in CONCACAF league eliminating Antigua GFC and scoring the winning goal allowing Forge to win their 1st championship.

    They took a chance on the league and it paid off. Contrarily to some MLS clubs, CPL clubs wants players to move on and the last thing they want to do is hold them back for more money.*

    *I said "some" and I'm being specific to the Cyle Larin case and recently Vancouver Whitecaps forcing Alphonso Davies to give up money on the transfer to Bayern Munich.

    That`s what will attract more good players to the league in the future
     
  8. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    #3133 Robert Borden, May 30, 2020
    Last edited: May 30, 2020
    Alphonso Davies scores again! And the "Marcelo" comparison is starting!
    If Canada wants to play Davies at LB, Herdman can't make the mistake of playing Ritchie Laryea as RB like he did against the USMNT. Laryea tends to go on the attack just as much as Davies and we got caught out of position to many time and a good team like the US will capitalize.

    Theses would be my candidates at RB who are more defense minded if Davies is assigned to LB.
    1. Zachary Brault-Guillard, Montreal Impact
    2. Dominick Zator, Cavalry
    The 2 losses where Davies was LB against Haiti and USMNT were Godhino and Laryea. They aren't mainly defense minded defenders.

    Willing to give Davies at LB another chance but Zator or Brault-Guillard needs to be there at RB. This allows the inclusion of Junior Hoilett at LM which gives Canada bigger attacking threat and the ability to press harder.

    4-2-3-1

    ------------------------Cavallini

    -----------Hoilett----Arfield----David

    ------------------Piette---------Eustaquio

    Davies----Cornelius-----Vitoria----Brault-Guillard

    ----------------------------Borjan

    The idea is to have Piette cover Davies position when he goes forward.

    Canada can press higher without compromising it's defense. Pressing Canada becomes riskier as the speedy counterattack can proved devastating
     
  9. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The old one-two off a defender again.

    Davies tracking back made an important tackle which led to the first goal, and he blocked Dusseldorf's best chance in the match
    .
     
  10. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Davies at left-back for Canada is crazy.
     
  11. CANPRO

    CANPRO Member+

    Dec 23, 2002
    That CB pairing is not good enough to qualify for a world cup. I know it, you know it, every knows it. We need a CB to emerge at a high level, quickly.
     
  12. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    CONCACAF is pretty weak these days. If the set-up allows for Canada to participate, and it looks like it will, you have a very good shot.

    Costa Rica got old, and so aside from Mexico, is anyone clearly better than Canada? The US should be when healthy, but is similarly young and experienced.
     
  13. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    I can't recall a bad game from Cornelius for Canada so far. The game we lost to the US saw Henry instead of him and it flagrant. When Henry was replaced, Vitoria played much better. Those 2 are a good pair.

    Vitoria plays at a high level in Portugal and has been starting most of the games, played solid defensively and even scored. 2022 campaign should be it for him.

    Afterwards, I stand with Waterman, Didic or Zator to play with Cornelius.
     
    Excellency repped this.
  14. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Its not just the starting pairing there. Its the depth behind it. Not just in that position, but all over the field. You have a couple of inevitable injuries and suspensions..........and the drop off is precipitous in some positions.

    I do look forward to a decade of Davies versus Dest arguments on this thread :) If Davies stays at fullback anyway.

    One thing is true: The games aren't played on paper. As we've talked about forever with Canada, they need to deliver when it matters the most ON THE FIELD. Haven't won a knockout game at the Gold Cup since 2007, and were just knocked out by Haiti in the most recent version. At some point, talk doesn't matter. Excuses don't matter. Win the damn games.

    Canada's in the position the US was at some point. Constantly writing lineups of youngsters and projecting them for greatness 4 years down the line. The horrible fact is that 75% of them don't make it. There was a time when this thread was all about Liam Miller. Well, he's 20 now and he's not scoring for a bottom half team in the SPL. Josh Sargent is 20 and starting Bundesliga games. There's the constant cycle of "but he's young, he's got a long way to go...………..but, but, but." American fans know it well. Most prospects don't make it.

    So Canadians look at that starting XI and see potential. Non-Canadians look at that lineup and see holes everywhere. What matters for Canada is whether that XI can win a road game in Honduras or Costa Rica NOW. Not 5 years from now.

    I think the biggest obstacle for American fans is always hubris. We don't watch the Honduran or Costa Rican leagues. We don't know the talent there. We just look at Wikipedia pages and see no big club names, and think "those guys aren't very good." Then those guys we've never heard of come and kick our butts. People always say "but they lost to this or that crap team in a friendly." Friendlies don't matter. In the last competition that mattered, the 2019 Gold Cup, Costa Rica gave Mexico its toughest game. Their quarterfinal went to penalties. Costa Rica is indeed on the older side. They're built for now...……….not 5 years from now.
     
    MPNumber9 repped this.
  15. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Another fact, Canada had no leagues since the 1987-1992 era who would help get Alex Bunbury to Portugal, who Ronaldo said was one of his favorite players when he was growing up.

    Countries like Australia, Japan, South Korea and even the US became consistent World Cup participants once they got their leagues started.

    Providing context is important

    That's everywhere, not just Canada.

    It's up to Liverpool to loan him. If Sargeant was at Liverpool, he wouldn't be starting either. We can have our opinion on him but Klopp recalled him and started him in the FA Cup. Liverpool
    refused to sell him with and Klopp said he had long terms plans for him. I'll trust his evaluation at this time, players develop at different pace and Millar is still one of Liverpool's top prospects.

    We can in the Caribbeans after the Nations league qualifiers, we haven't been tested in in Central America yet with this squad so your guess is as good as mine. The starting XI can compete at least with the US. The question is depth and I'm adding coaching into the mix.
     
  16. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Nor is anyone else at the moment:D
     
  17. Placid Casual

    Placid Casual Member+

    Apr 2, 2004
    Bentley's Roof
    Providing context is important.

    He played an FA Cup replay where 22 senior players and Klopp were on the winter break.

    He was older than at least seven of the other ten outfield players.


    https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/51356816
     
  18. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    #3143 Robert Borden, Jun 1, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2020
    I did specify "FA Cup". I'm not trying to paint Millar as "EPL ready" but as a top Liverpool prospect. As said before, Liverpool refused to sell him for 7 figures to multiple clubs interested in him with Klopp having long term plans for him.

    All I'm saying is if Klopp think he's good enough to keep traveling with the 1st team and train with them, there's something there.

    He was actually very productive with Liverpool U23 team (at age 17 & 18) and caught the eyes of Steven Gerrard who took him under his wing. He didn't score a lot in Scotland, granted but guys who can burn 1st division football straight out of youth teams are the exceptions. Most needs a learning curve...Millar isn't Davies or David but could be a step below David but can dribble like Davies. Like most, he needs that time to develop and another loan to be tested again.

    This article highlighted what he brought :
    Six youngsters who have made their Scottish Premiership breakthrough this season
    https://www.heraldscotland.com/spor...ade-scottish-premiership-breakthrough-season/
    At the time of the article



      • Millar only started two Premiership matches last season - including an appearance at Celtic Park where he was Kilmarnock's best player on the day - but has become a regular fixture on Killie's left wing this season. Millar attempts 8.75 dribbles per game - the fifth-highest rate of any Premiership player - and has completed more progressive runs (dribbles where the ball is carried at least 10 yards forward) than any other top-flight footballer. The on-loan winger is certainly brilliant at driving at the opposition but could probably offer a greater output in front of goal: Millar has only one goal and one assist to his name this season.
     
  19. Placid Casual

    Placid Casual Member+

    Apr 2, 2004
    Bentley's Roof
    That's a lot of words to miss the point being made
     
  20. CANPRO

    CANPRO Member+

    Dec 23, 2002
    I agree with this. The time is now, no more excuses.

    Now that we have a domestic league, our program should really start to take off as well as build depth. Without a league, it is impossible to build a proper program.

    As far as the depth argument, I believe we have more depth than at any recent time period (besides the CB position). Having guys like Cyle Larin (who is always awful for Canada, but is a decent club player), Ballou Tabla, Richie Laryea, Stephen Eustaquio come off the bench is pretty good Concacaf depth. And maybe more importantly, some of our bench guys are even dynamic attacking players, which we've never, ever had, compared to our usual player profile aka Russell Teibert.
     
  21. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Davies is better than anything we have.

    On the next rung, we got two very good players: Pulisic and Adams. However, the former has been out for most of the season, so we can't say he's established himself as a starter with Chelsea. And the latter is a rotational starter at best with Leipzig.

    Right below that, there's David and McKennie. David plays in a weaker league, but he's shown well there. McKennie's role and position are more problematic, and while he's been important for his struggling team, I wouldn't bet money on him remaining a starter after this season.

    A notch below, and more in the emerging prospects line, we got Reyna and Dest. Both are promising, and I expect Reyna to get at least to Pulisic's level. I'm not as optimistic about Dest, I feel his defensive chops are unlikely to make of him a top fullback ever.

    And we also got JAB, who has his good days.

    The only other player Canada has even approaching such level is Larin.
     
  22. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    #3147 Robert Borden, Jun 2, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2020
    The other reason behind the hype for Jonathan David is how dominant and consistant he was in Europa league. Even with a weaker team like Gent, he was able to score and push them forward against stronger teams from stronger leagues. For me, he's not that far down from Davies...debatable if the difference between the 2 is that significant

    Gent vs. Sainte-Étienne

    Gent vs. Roma
     
  23. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    So looks like Newcastle might be closing in on Jonathan David. We could have a striker in EPL if this works out.
    1267849158586781698 is not a valid tweet id
     
  24. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I would assume that this sale is dependent on Mike Ashley actually selling Newcastle to the Saudi's.....because most know that he's not going to splash that sort of cash.
     
  25. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    That's correct. I'd personally prefer seeing him in Germany
     

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