Covid-19: We don’t talk about 1-18

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by Yoshou, Apr 16, 2020.

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  1. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    I played under this rule as a kid.

    Because we were quite young, at that time few kids in the grade could get much distance on a goal kick, so the preference was to try to quickly play the ball out to a defender outside the box who passed it straight back to the keeper who could punt it. So this led to the spectacle of lots of players crowded round the box. (We see this again with the high press restart)

    In part this was also the problem of playing on a full size field at such a young age.

    For corners the problem was solved by allowing us to take the corners from a point halfway between the corner flag and the box, rather than from the corner.
     
  2. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    You have millions with no insurance? Lack of sick pay etc etc

    Lots of people won't seek first line help when sick for any reason
     
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  3. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    UK had an access issues like this even before Covid.

    Wait times are absurd compared to Germany for even basic doctors visits let alone emergency.

    This is what I mean by high access. In Germany if you feel sick, you can pretty much go to the doctor that morning, or even straight to a specialist.

    When my daughter fell ill as a baby, 2 emergency vehicles responded in under 10 mins. They have a flying squad that comes first, because the ambulance takes a bit longer

    I think people underestimate this aspect. germans are still very accustomed to high access and make use of it.
     
  4. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    Setting this conversation aside from both the COVID-19 period and the issue of insurance, that is largely true in the U.S. I have gold-plated health insurance, I can go anywhere and see anybody, but I don't bother because by the time they will see me I will be recovered (or dead). So I go to el cheapo "immediate care" places instead, where I see a junior doctor from a revolving staff but I see that doctor pronto.
     
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  5. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    a. US hospitals are telling people point black not to go to ER if they have Covid-19 symptoms.

    b. if your spouse or loved one has severe Covid-19 symptoms the hospital isn't going to let you visit them. My Dad had said he'd rather my Mum die in his arms than die alone in hospital.
     
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  6. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Makes sense, why run the risk of infecting people in the ER.

    There are probably places where infected people can go, but that information has to be told to the people.
     
  7. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Yeah i was a bit shocked coming to NZ that you had to wait up to 6 weeks to see a specialist. I was lucky to find a great doctor who just set up her own practice and intentionally had free slots for urgent sports injuries that tend to arise on a weekly basis.

    As far as Covid goes we were talking about this before in terms of the lowish german death toll.

    Obviously we still don't know all the facts, but according to the German Health Minister the combination of access plus diagnostics is critical. If people either don't come in at all, or only come in when they are already critical, the results are bad.

     
  8. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    My $10 bet is that early intervention makes a large difference in terms of the case management.

    If people show up in an ambulance dying, then you get the Italy / NYC scenario. Many of those people will not survive intubation anyway.
     
  9. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Two entirely different issues. What your son and friends’ kids experienced isn’t necessarily an access issue. That was more about containment and prevention of overwhelming the system. Since they only had relatively minor symptoms, there was no point in having them come in as there really wasn’t anything that could be done for them and they could have exposed people with other issues to the coronavirus.

    What I’m talking about is people with issues other than covid that are avoiding hospitals because of covid and, in some cases, this is resulting people dying that wouldn’t normally.
     
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  10. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    See as I understand it, this is a fundamental difference because it can amount to a die in place strategy as by the time they do get bad, it may to be too late to help.
     
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  11. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They tell people to get in touch with their PCP or urgent care facility who will advise them if they need hospital admission.
     
  12. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Certainly a possibility, but, again, in the examples provided, they were relatively minor symptoms and are people that would have been told to stay home even in Germany. That’s not an access issue.
     
  13. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Oh, very much so, yes. I mentioned that before about a doc who commonly dealt with stuff like cases of sepsis who said NOBODY had come in for about a month when he used to get an average of about one a day.

    Obviously people were getting ill but didn't want to 'risk' going to hospital or even the doctors.
     
  14. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I can't speak for the USA but, over here, it's a both issue. Some people just aren't going to the hospital or doctors and, even if they do, some people are being put off as JohnR says.
     
  15. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    No, you've got that wrong.

    When I was feeling stomach pain a few years back I rang the 111 service, (the advice line), and spoke to a guy. He went through a list of questions and then put me onto a another person, a woman, who was a cardiology specialist for phone analysis. She decided it might actually be chest pain, (it wasn't), and the ambulance arrived whilst I was finishing the phone call. I was in the operating theatre within about 20 mins of arriving in the hospital The same thing happened with my mum when she had her first stroke... the ambulance arrived whilst we were still on the phone.

    The same thing with my mum's elderly next door neighbour who needed an operation which it was being reported at the time in the US meeja took several months, (a hernia which was substantial, IIRC). It was done within a couple of days.

    The emergency 'bit' of the NHS actually works pretty well. The standard doctors visit is too slow and can be difficult to get within a reasonable period... that's true. That can, of course, lead to further problems... that's also true.

    There can be medical mistakes but they can happen anywhere because they're a function of human error although, obviously, they are more likely to happen if the system is under load and under-resourced, as it's been under the tories since 2010.

    But let's not say that emergency covers normally takes days or weeks because that's just not true.
     
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  16. spejic

    spejic Cautionary example

    Mar 1, 1999
    San Rafael, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Continuing the news of the hobby store I mentioned here, late in May they were ordered closed again. That sucks for them because business will be worse and they did a lot of work modifying the store and worst of all there are people that had to be laid off after only a few weeks of work.

    I get that at the beginning we weren't sure how this thing traveled between people and we wanted to maintain the bare minimum communion between people possible (and I fully supported that), but we have experience and better knowledge now. People aren't getting sick from touching things other people touched or being briefly in the area of another person while both are masked. If it was, contact tracing wouldn't work and as we know from developments in more civilized nations it does. It doesn't make sense that if I need a frying pan I can go to a kitchen store with a grocery store attached (named Target), but I can't go to a kitchen store. If I need a shirt, I can go to a clothing store with a grocery store attached (coincidentally also named Target) but I can't go to a clothing store. And don't get me started on what this is doing to Amazon's business.

    A few are getting the benefit of the situation that are causing most to suffer. Like in pretty much every great tragedy that befalls mankind, this has also ended up transferring large amounts of money from the masses to the very rich.
     
  17. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's June 1. 105,000 confirmed deaths, 1.8 million confirmed cases. In many states, cases and deaths increasing. The summer boost that we are supposed to get should arrive soon. If, by the end of the month, the trend remains flat, then the autumn will be rough.
     
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  18. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    #6968 The Jitty Slitter, Jun 1, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2020
    Dude last winter the papers will full of accounts of the NHS crisis where critical patients were being held in the ambulance due to lack of place to put them

    let's not rewrite history here

    of course if you are having a heart attack then you will be the highest priority

    Also I happen to know from friends that trying to get a non-acute doctors appointments can mean waiting many days whereas in Hamburg i can get in same morning usually.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...is-5000-patients-spent-12-hours-ae-last-week/
     
  19. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    Al Jazeera on the toll of the Covid-19 pandemic on health care workers in Iran. And, also, fears of a 2nd wave.

     
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  20. Wow.
    I reported some time ago thge antibody discovery of the combined research study of my Alma Mater Erasmus University and Utrecht University.
    They announced to expect the medicine based on it to be on the market within 6 months.
    We Dutch rule.
    https://www.erasmusmagazine.nl/en/2...s-mc-and-utrecht-university/?noredirect=en_US
    Corona medicine in the making after discovery Erasmus MC and Utrecht University
    Frank Grosveld, professor of cell biology at Erasmus MC, expects the first medicines to be ready in five to six months.

    [​IMG]
    Image credit: GuidoPijper
     
  21. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's amazing news.
     
  22. If it ain't Dutch it ain't much.
     
  23. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    The article never said what this medicine does, but presumably it's more useful than Uncle Donnie's prescription.
     
  24. From earlier publications I understand it kills the virus in the body, but it's not a vaccin.
     
  25. Why they were ahead of the pack:
    https://www.erasmusmagazine.nl/en/2...ntastic-but-the-goal-is-still-to-help-people/
    “It’s precisely corona virologists like us that are in great demand at the moment, because only a few virologists have dedicated themselves to this disease. Coronaviruses have never been a major medical problem in the past. Now that they are, I’m getting thousands of e-mails from all over the world. Scientists, research institutes, companies, they all want to source knowledge from us because we have been doing research into the various coronaviruses for many years.”
     

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