Argentine NT: News, Stats & Players [R]

Discussion in 'Argentina: Selecciones Nacionales' started by jimmi_moh, Jul 17, 2014.

  1. Duchene2Mackinnon

    May 9, 2014
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    2014-2016 At first Sabella implemented a system that hid their obvious individual deficiencies. Tata carried more or less the same system. This made the offence suffer but it was the only way to actually win games. Had he let the offensive players loose the midfield and defence would've been exposed. Hell take 2014 for example without the individual heroics of Messi in Bosnia/Iran Argentina might have gotten out much faster than they did. So, true it was the lack of goals that made them lose i 3 straight finals but just look at the midfield, defence and even Keeping position compared to the likes of Germany, Spain or now France. I mean the best defender for Argentina the past decade was Garay who was never exactly elite or world class. Solid player for sure and I love what he brought to the team but he was never among the best in the world.
     
  2. pipinogol

    pipinogol Member+

    May 20, 2016
    Club:
    Cary RailHawks U23
    Bundesliga as always a meat grinder for argentinian footballers. Never go there.

    Imagine if Lautaro had been sold to Dortmund back in the day, he would still be warming the bench until he is "adapted".
     
  3. Ofori

    Ofori Red Card

    Inter Milan
    Ghana
    May 9, 2020
    I can agree that it is a system issue but under the Scaloni system Argentina is becoming a better team but when they were under Sampaoli they were going from game to game just going through the motions. With Scaloni, they don't have to worry about that.
     
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  4. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Barcelona, Inter Milan
    Argentina
    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina

    If Argentina didnt have great defensive players at the time, then they wouldnt get into 3 finals....because playing defensive football doesnt mean your team would win the match but they did. Sabella managed to find the right players and the right system but if those players were just good/average players, then they wouldnt have a great run from 2012-2016 regardless the system. They were winning 3-0,4-1, 4-0, 5-2 throughout qualifier and you dont score that many if its all about defending.

    360 minutes of finals and no goals still shows the main culprit is bad luck and weak mentallity, not players quality. Spain scored only 8 goals when they won in 2010, so they basically had less goal than Argentina on their way to the final but they still won it in last minute just like Germany did 4 years later. Possession dont win you game. Spain still had ball possesion in 2014 and 2018 and how far they got? 1st round exit and 2nd round exit.

    If Argentina player presented with a chance that Gotze and Iniesta had in last minute, they'd have miss it. When Higuain had that early chance against Chile in 2016 final, I already expecting him to miss and he obviously did. When I say bad luck , that means losing the shootout. Brazil won 1994 WC without scoring in a final, so did Chile when winning those 2 Copa.

    It isnt hard to see Argentina tend to folded and struggle to score when playing a final or playing against strong side at KO stage. Take a look at Argentina head to head against Chile in last decade for intense... In 9 matches, Argentina won 6, draw 1 , losses 2. Guess what, those 2 losses were the 2015 and 2016 finals. They could score multiple goals against Chile in qualifier, Copa group stage and third place game, but a final? zero.
     
  5. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Barcelona, Inter Milan
    Argentina
    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    A team that buy great players but never give them much of playing time, that means that player has never been part of the long term plan of the club or the manager or both. Perhaps it just for selling jersey or just for the sake of buying someone that quite famous. Off course you'd see all these excuses such as "not good enough" "language barrier" "hasnt click yet" "hasnt adapt" etc.
     
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  6. SupaMario

    SupaMario Member+

    Aug 31, 2009
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    CA Tigre
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Well, it appears Icardi to PSG may happen. I guess he’ll thrive in France, score goals and win league titles.
     
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  7. Moaiyad

    Moaiyad New Member

    Argentina
    Oct 18, 2018
    Hi;
    Well, you Know, I feel that you gave a real reason of why we didn't win any championship since 1993. Thats because of the mentality issues of the team despite all the legendary squads we've had. That shows the need of getting team mangers who have the winning mentality. Maybe the only Argentinan coach who is knowledgeable with new football technics coupled with wining mentality is Simioni even though, Pekerman is always my favorite coach. But, another concern could be taken into account is Spanish league in 2014 was the last championship he won.
     
  8. Duchene2Mackinnon

    May 9, 2014
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Oh trust I know all this. It wasn't the defenders fault Argentina didn't win in their last 3 finals. I will always respect the likes of Micho, Biglia, Garay and Otamendi. They all played their hearts out. However, These guys are average players the best of the bunch was Garay in Valencia. Micho was average playing in Malaga. Biglia in Serie A and Otamendi as a worst case scenario for City. They haven't been able to develop defenders or midfielders that were actually elite playing WC footy for their club teams. I didn't think my post would actually get challenged I think it's fairly obvious that Argentina are better at developing attackers than any other position. They're clearly one of the best at developing forwards but I don't see any midfielders or defenders making a name for themselves in club footy. The past 10 years.

    Teams like Bayer don't have that luxury. Dortmund either they cant just spend 20 million on a prospect without thinking they can get their money back by flipping after he "breaks out" with them. Players like Palacios/Balerdi aren't going to garner that much interest in Europe without having to prove themselves in Europe first.
     
  9. Ofori

    Ofori Red Card

    Inter Milan
    Ghana
    May 9, 2020
    Yeah he most definitely will
     
  10. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Barcelona, Inter Milan
    Argentina
    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Simeone mentioned recently that we keep seeing Brazil , Germany winning more thropies because they're simply stronger mentally. Thats the truth .

    If you watch Brazil, Uruguay and Chile when they beat Argentina in 2007, 2011 , 2015 & 2016, 2019 they clearly knows how to get into our players mind. They put high preasure and commited plenty of fouls and when we fouls them, they did time wasting to maxinum degree, and our game will always be the same in those type of matches. We would start with some great chances and after 15 minutes we imploded, and then losing our playing pattern. Same story everytime.
     
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  11. Ofori

    Ofori Red Card

    Inter Milan
    Ghana
    May 9, 2020
    I always wondered why Simeone never coached the national team. He would be a perfect fit for you guys.
     
  12. SupaMario

    SupaMario Member+

    Aug 31, 2009
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    CA Tigre
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Why would Simeone want to coach the national team when he’s an idol at Atletico? Plus, this has been talked about, coaching the national team is normally for the old-timers. Cholo will probably coach Inter when he’s done at Atletico. Not to mention, I don’t think many of us are keen on his style. Sit back and defend and clutch your ass for 90 minute and scrape by with a 1-0 win. No thanks.
     
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  13. Ofori

    Ofori Red Card

    Inter Milan
    Ghana
    May 9, 2020
    Plus the only former players that have coached the national team are Scaloni himself and Maradona but that's about it...I wonder if any other former players would be interested in coaching Argentina in the future?
     
  14. locoxriver

    locoxriver Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 22, 2005
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Huh? Passarella, Batista, Sabella, Basile, Menotti, Sivori have all played for the NT... even Bauza and Martino had a few caps in their days

    Not sure if that’s what you meant, but the majority of Argentina’s NT coaches have previously represented us internationally as players (with Bielsa, Pekerman, and Bilardo being notable exceptions, although the latter did form part of our Olympic team)
     
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  15. Ofori

    Ofori Red Card

    Inter Milan
    Ghana
    May 9, 2020
    Then why not get one of them to come back as manager
     
  16. soul24rage

    soul24rage Member+

    Barcelona
    Jun 13, 2009
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    They were Arg NT managers as well before
     
  17. locoxriver

    locoxriver Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 22, 2005
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    What does playing for the NT have to do with anything? Maradona is the GOAT NT player, yet we all know he was a disaster when managing us... Bilardo never played for the NT, yet won a WC title as coach. Passarella was a beast on the field, yet left a lot to be desired as manager.

    Pekerman and Bielsa never played for the NT (and retired prematurely from their playing carreers; Bielsa at 25 if I’m not mistaken), yet they had us playing some of the best football we’ve seen and are considered very influential coaches.

    Player success does not translate to managerial success. Do you remember Mourinho or Klopp as players? I certainly don’t.... yet today they are two of the best managers on the planet.

    Scolari played for a bunch of rubbish sides and was said to have a “wooden leg,” yet as manager he won the World Cup, Confederations Cup, Libertadores, AFC Champions League, etc

    Not sure if you’re just bored and trying to start up conversations for the hell of it, but it’s ridiculous to appoint someone as manager solely off of having represented the side previously as a player... besides, for the most part everyone is content with Scaloni’s work for now, so really there isn’t any need for the discussion of a replacement
     
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  18. Ofori

    Ofori Red Card

    Inter Milan
    Ghana
    May 9, 2020
    Okay then who do you suggest as coach right now
     
  19. SupaMario

    SupaMario Member+

    Aug 31, 2009
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    CA Tigre
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Say no more.

    [​IMG]
     
  20. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Barcelona, Inter Milan
    Argentina
    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    How come you forgot his best achievement, the WC 2014 semifinal.
     
  21. DTCrackheads

    DTCrackheads Member

    Barcelona
    Argentina
    Mar 9, 2019
    Simeone is one of the highest paid managers in all of Europe.

    The AFA is broke.

    That is the main reason.
     
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  22. Ofori

    Ofori Red Card

    Inter Milan
    Ghana
    May 9, 2020
    I see I guess that makes sense but even with the AFA being in it's current state, I mean Argentina is still a power in football
     
  23. DTCrackheads

    DTCrackheads Member

    Barcelona
    Argentina
    Mar 9, 2019
    Looks like Leverkusen has 17 year old Florian Wirtz starting today; Palacios on the bench.

    Granted, Wirtz is German, there is probably a law that they have to play young Germans. He also plays more forward than Palacios.

    Hopefully our guy will get some time today.
     
  24. soul24rage

    soul24rage Member+

    Barcelona
    Jun 13, 2009
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    At this point, I don't expect Palacios to feature in any games this season with Leverkusen chasing hard for the CL spot. For Alario, coming from the bench. I'm really hoping they both get more playing time next season.
     
  25. Ofori

    Ofori Red Card

    Inter Milan
    Ghana
    May 9, 2020
    I doubt it and for stars of their talent they are being misused
     

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