Youth Yanks Abroad, ‘97-‘00 YOBs: 2019/20 Thread

Discussion in 'Youth National Teams' started by TheFalseNine, Jul 20, 2019.

  1. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Is he a scapegoat?

    I know there’s a poster or two here that really doesn’t like him. But most have him in their Best XI pretty clearly.

    McKennie has made some mistakes in games that have been part of goals given up. He’s more inconsistent that you’d like, but he’s also 21 or something.

    Almost everyone sees him as part of the core.
     
  2. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    Compared to Adams, Pulisic and now Dest, every mistake he makes on a weekly basis is magnified by the USMNT fan base.

    Pulisic's record against non-CONCACAF minnows is pretty bad. Adams play for the NT hasn't been anything notable yet IMO. Dest has barely played for the NT, and his record in his brief career isn't that good. I don't think any have been great. You can pick about things for all our best players, but I think the criticism McKennie gets compared to the others is unwarranted.
     
  3. David Kerr

    David Kerr Member+

    United States
    Oct 18, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #803 David Kerr, May 24, 2020
    Last edited: May 24, 2020
    I think Weston is the worst of the three and has the least concrete spot in the starting lineup long term. Currently he is the best 8 that we have and maybe one of the young prospects will emerge long term (Paxton Pomykal hopefully). When looking to 2022 Weston should be the starter, after that I think other options will jump him.

    But it’s hard to really say how Adams/McKennie/Pulisic all play together because they’ve all only been on the field together for 76 minutes total over 2 games. That isn’t enough of a sample size to draw any legit conclusions.

    If you want Weston to run your offense, you’re going to lose the game but Weston is useful when you want a player to win physical battles in the middle of the field and regain possession. Him and Tyler Adams together would be a very solid midfield and difficult to play through but they both need a more advanced midfield playmaker who can actually unlock a defense in the final third (Dwayne Holmes, Gio Reyna, Richie Ledezma).

    I think Weston gets the most hate because the USMNT fan base expects the European players to be star level players. Weston is not a player who will be a star player. Is he good enough to be a starter for the USMNT? Yes, but he’s not the guy that should be expected to be a difference maker just because he plays in Europe
     
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  4. largegarlic

    largegarlic Member+

    Jul 2, 2007
    That's how I see it too. I don't dislike McKennie; I just don't think he's in the same class as Pulisic and likely Adams. In another thread, I compared McKennie to Brooks in the sense that both are guys who can start for above-average teams in big 4 leagues, but wouldn't make it at real, perennial UCL contenders. Pulisic already plays for such a team, and Adams looked to be on that trajectory last spring. We'll see if he can get back to that level after all of his injury issues. I think McKennie will be an important player for the USMNT and will have some big games, but is not the sort of player that represents a huge step forward from the better USMNT players of generations past.

    It's fair to argue that Pulisic hasn't shown that he can produce for the US against top teams, but he hasn't had much opportunity and has had outstanding games against teams like Bayern, Real Madrid, etc.
     
  5. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    I think they are all hyper-analyzed by a segment of "fans". Especially on Twitter. It is even more glaring now because they are the only players playing. Certain MLS paid writers are also on Twitter slandering them.

    McKennie makes great plays and misses some easy plays. He is super important to that team though and it is not a coincidence they fell apart after he was subbed out. Schalke's main problem is they cannot score. But without McKennie they would also have a serious problem getting the ball back.

    Not sure why we have to decide who is the most horrible. Why can't we just enjoy them and have some fun? McKennie is rarely invisible out there, he is fun to watch.

    It is criminal that a double pivot of Adams and McKennie has never been deployed by the USMNT. Not even for a half or on a lark. It is incredible we have come 3 years since McKennie's debut as a Bundesliga player and he has never been used that way with Adams. He has been used that way with Trapp or Roldan or Bradley or Yueill. Adams has played that with Trapp and Delgado and others. Criminal.
     
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  6. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    I noticed this. If he had signed with FCD, I doubt these certain MLS paid writers would be doing so. I suspect they’ll do the same for Gomez.
     
  7. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    which writers?
     
  8. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    Matt Doyle for one.
     
  9. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Shrug. MLS paid writers/commentators are paid by MLS.
    They know how their bread is buttered. There aren't a helluva lot of paying jobs for soccer writers in this country. We get it. These aren't good times. Its like complaining that presenters on Russian state tv are pro-Russia. Well, duh. If they're not, they're taken out back and whacked.

    Weston McKennie is a good player, and certainly a USMNTer.
    Likely to be in the USMNT pool for a long time.
    I'm a huge McKennie fan, of course, as I've watched him since he was a young kid in the FCD academy. Do I think he has the ceiling of Adams? No. That still makes him the 2nd best central midfielder in the USMNT pool at the moment. Have people checked out the state of our central midfield pool?

    Sometimes when youngsters are in our view for a very long time, we get frustrated when they don't reach the enormous ceiling that we hoped they had. We thus tend to undervalue their current skill set and ability level. Weston McKennie is a 21 year starter in the Bundesliga. Josh Sargent is another that's going to get this treatment really soon. A 20 year old Bundesliga forward. We keep wanting to see signs of him taking another step to one of the world's best, but it's probably not going to happen. I don't see signs of that yet. He's probably not going to be Robert Lewandowski, and we'll start seeing the backlash soon. But who else are we starting at forward?
     
  10. dougtee

    dougtee Member+

    Feb 7, 2007
    mckennie looks to me like someone who will be a very useful complementary player coming off the bench for a champions league team. that still makes him a usmnt starter
     
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  11. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Good lord, your posts used to be interesting. You’ve gone full conspiracy theory.

    Or pointless grandstanding. How many times did you write “criminal” in that prior post?

    How many times were McKennie and Adams healthy and available at the same time during 2019? Or are you just railing against Dave Sarachan?
     
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  12. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I somewhat agree. I mean, I don't know how we measure that, but I do think some posters (more than the media) forgets the good he does.

    I think Weston has been partially responsible for some key goals given up in the last year, and he rightfully deserves some stick for that. He's been pretty mediocre defensively, though obviously still much better than Roldan, etc.

    At the same time, he's actually been very goal productive for a CM and is one of the better talents on the team.

    Pulisic is largely the golden boy, but he's faced his share of criticism for lack of productivity. Dest is very new and hasn't had a high profile screw-up. Adams hasn't played in forever - it's hard to find mistakes when you don't play.

    That said, I haven't seen a single media member call for his benching or ask why he's on the team. Criticizing play isn't necessarily some vendetta.

    But he does deserve more credit for what he brings to the table offensively.
     
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  13. butters59

    butters59 Member+

    Feb 22, 2013
    You can't have very good games peppered with horrible giveaways without being severely criticised. Wes got a well deserved score of 5.5 for his last game from Kicker. He should learn to keep concentration, otherwise all his good plays are for nothing.
     
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  14. #1 Feilhaber and Adu

    Aug 1, 2007



    DUDE, we just witnessed ESPN commentators fear for their jobs when one of them exposed that they are screaming for Michael Bradley to leave the USMNT already and stop blocking the next generation. When are posters going to STOP Pretending and get with reality? =

    What has been revealed time and time again and has been dubbed "conspiracy" nonsense


    A) Bradley's First ruthless agenda...………….. Andrea Canales and Wynalda in 2010-2011, Jimmy Conrad in 2018, and now ESPN commentators in 2020.

    B) the Chief of conflict of interest in USSF, is also the CEO of SUM and the Commissioner of MLS. A major conflict of interest that many have tried to dub "conspiracy" nonsense.


    So if a poster or numerous posters say some far out stuff, maybe we should think first and consider maybe they are right.
     
  15. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017


    Most thought Brooks played well. German media though he played very well and neutralized Haaland expertly.



    Again, Brooks played well and and no need to highlight a fluke own goal. German and most other American media thought McKennie was the best on a bad Schalke team.

    Conspiracy? At best, this is Lalas style attention whoring. These Tweets go out as soon as the game ends, like they are written beforehand. What is the point though? He writes articles too along the same lines. Anyone with an MLS connection of course is singled out for praise like Carlos Gruezo, who nobody outside of Doyle has praised for anything.

    McKennie and Adams were healthy for 1000 minutes at least, since Couva and in camp together. They have been deployed as everything but a double pivot. Sarachan or not, Earnie was there the Fall of 2018 and Gregg was all but hired. Gregg had Adams at RB until Dest emerged in September.

    Do you think it makes any sense not to try Adams and McKennie together as the base in midfield, not even for half a game, ever?
     
  16. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Just because someone has a different opinion from you doesn't mean they are paid or biased. You sound like someone ranting on politics.

    They've actually only been healthy together for 7 matches since Adams broke in. Six of those were with Sarachan, who did love his 4-1-4-1. I don't remember a lot of ranting against not having a straight double pivot then -- they both played and at times, it resembled one. But either way, they have not been healthy at the same time for 1,000 minutes since Adams broke through (and when Adams got a cap, half of Big Soccer claimed he was being forced down our throats by US Soccer).

    Adams has been healthy and available for one game for Berhalter. Massive extrapolation there is silly, in any direction.

    Like I said, I used to value your opinion because it seemed well reasoned and differed from mine. Now it's conspiracy theories and predetermined opinions that you hunt and peck for data to make it up ... then rant with pointless hyperbole. Here, you have an opinion, then backed it up with a made-up stat (1,0000 minutes) that took me three minutes to fact check, and of course, then there's criminal!

    Criminal! It's Criminal! Lock Them Up!

    Anyways, this is pointless and meta. I just liked it better when your posts were well-reasoned.
     
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  17. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Shrug. Those are Doyle's opinions. That's fine. They don't mean any more or less than my opinions. Why do people let these types of things upset them? If you don't want to follow Doyle's opinions because you think he's biased, then don't follow them.

    You see that he doesn't just post about players that turned down MLS contracts or opportunities. Brooks has never had anything to do with an MLS academy or team.

    I thought Carlos Gruezo was fine this past weekend. Of course that's the first time I've watched him with Augsburg. I don't believe in these ratings systems like WhoScored or Kicker. Those are also just opinions too. Augsburg 3 Schalke 0. That's the only rating that matters. [But if one does care about those ratings for some inexplicable reason, WhoScored rated Grueso higher than McKennie.]
     
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  18. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    I don't think it rises to the conspiracy realm but it's always interesting to me to note these new posters who come out of the woodwark to full-throatedly defend MLS on these forums.

    It particularly raises an eyebrow when the following occur (as here):

    - new poster joins in mid 2019
    - new poster voluminously defends MLS / USSF
    - new poster mentions as fact what happens on BigSoccer before they joined (e.g., when Adams first played for the USMNT in 2017)
    - the poster has a lot of MLS knowledge but has never ever posted in the MLS part of BigSoccer, despite the massive posting on USMNT.

    Why would a huge MLS fan never post in that part of the forum? Maybe I don't understand how their MLS fandom works.
     
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  19. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    btw, doyle is actually paid by MLS so that part isn't conspiracy theory. Don't know why people get upset however, he's effectively a PR guy.
     
  20. butters59

    butters59 Member+

    Feb 22, 2013
    I've been kicked from BS twice. Know everything that's been happening here since 1999. There are plenty of others with similar posts histories.
     
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  21. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    Can’t stay healthy. He’d be a regular starter on the senior NT by now if he could.

     
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  22. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
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  23. ielag

    ielag Member+

    Jul 20, 2010
    In every sport, it blows my mind how worked up people get over talking heads and their opinions that at the end of the day have no bearing on what happens on the field of play.
     
  24. TarHeels17

    TarHeels17 Member+

    Jan 10, 2017
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    One thing about the new wave of Americans moving to Europe that I find interesting is since these guys are going there so early, they're going to be the guys that fans look at and go, "I can't believe this guy is only 25, he seems like he's been around forever." That seems like a new phenomena to me for Americans (except you're Freddy Adu, of course).
     
  25. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    To effectuate the point further, no mention from Matt Doyle about McKennie's goal from yesterday on his twitter feed. He had been tweeting a lot about his performances recently. Instead, a retweet from someone criticizing McKennie for ball-watching on a goal he was nowhere near and didn't have any actual involvement in the goal being scored against Schalke. It's a clear agenda from this guy against McKennie. People are clearly allowed their opinion's and we can debate back and forth if it matters what these journalists, pundits, analysts say, but I wonder if this is an order from MLS HQ to criticize the recent highest profile player to snub MLS for Europe. I wouldn't put it past them.
     
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