My votes are for Ronaldo and Gerd Muller, but here are some quotes about who I consider 3a and 3b: Marco van Basten Johan Cruyff: "he had amazing qualities.. with his right foot, left foot, his head. He was very intelligent" John Barnes: "He was an incredible player. He was a complete footballer." Mauro Tassotti “He was the most beautiful striker I’ve ever seen, he had an incredible elegance about him. He could do anything with the ball”. Demetrio Albertini: "He could score goals in every possible way. Spectacular goals, tap ins, individual goals. He was the complete footballer… I’ve always said that Van Basten is the best player I ever played with, because he only had a few years to show his talent. He won three Ballon d'Or, yet was only 28 when he retired. Most players have a little more time than that”. Filippo Galli “It wasn’t really just about his goals. He was very quick, he was good one-on-one, he was strong in the air, he had a great shot with either foot. It was hard to find a quality he didn’t possess”. Romário Johan Cruyff defined him as "genius of the goal area". Diego Maradona described Romário as an "incredible finisher" adding that he had not seen a striker like him, and mentioning that Romário would be in his all-time "dream team" without any hesitation. Roberto Baggio: "Romário is one of the greatest players of all time. He has good technique and personality. He is a master of art in the penalty area." Michael Laudrup has stated that Romario was his favorite striking partner throughout his career. "No one else could utilize my passes the way he did."
Do you have Voller over Klinsmann? Any insight into where Jurgen ranks as a German striker and as an all-timer?
151- Between 2007 and 2011, Luis Suarez scored (91) or assisted (60) 151 goals in 139 Eredivisie games. Fulcrum.— OptaJohan (@OptaJohan) July 22, 2013 @Dearman Can a striker in the modern era eredivisie recieve a supreme class rating? Suarez 09/10 was 1gpg in the league and europa league Unlike supreme world class Euesbio 72/32 who was 1.43 gpg in the league 0.5 in the European cup stat padding against malmo Also knocked out by 7th place english side derby county Edit I think hakim ziyech was also in the top handful of performers in the first semester. Elite level Maybe dropped off a little bit though since
Marco van basten 128 goals+30 assists in 133 eredivisie matches https://es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marco_van_Basten Ronaldo nazario 42 goals+18 assists in 46 eredivisie matches Romario de souza 99 goals+26 assists in 110 eredivisie matches https://es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romário Luis suarez 91 goals+60 assists in 139 eredivisie matches On the surface it looks like in eredivisie R9 and Luis Suarez were more prolific creators as Marco van basten and Romario Of course this only a bit part analysis Not even sure how accurate these statistics are to begin with @Tropeiro This source credits R9 1997/98 with 4 assists in 32 serie A matches It also credits Flippo inzaghi 1997/98 with 5 assists in 31 serie A matches https://es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filippo_Inzaghi Gabriel batistuta 1997/98 with 10 assists in 31 serie A matches https://es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabriel_Batistuta#/search Alessandro del piero 1997/98 with 5 assists in 32 league matches https://es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alessandro_Del_Piero George weah 1997/98 8 assists in 24 serie A matches I couldn't find any data on bierhoff,signori,montella,albo,chiesa etc but wouldn't be surprised if they also out assisted R9 during 1997/98 These are all strikers/FW If i include Rui Costa,zidane,Francesco totti etc the list will undoubtedly get larger Its not possible playing for 1 of the top clubs in Italy that a complete forward could be outassisted by so many strikers Some of them also very limited in function He was also outscored at every level playing a 45+ game season all comps Outscored in the world cup Serie A Coppa italia Uefa cup Im not sure even a million dribbling runs could mask this
Biggest game scorers at club level European cup/CL Quarter final to final stage goals only Ferenc puskas Between 1959 and 1962 real Madrid won 2 consecutive European cups and reached 1 final Real Madrid scored 42 goals during the QF to final rounds Ferenc puskas contributed with 14 goals: 33% direct involvement Gerd muller Between 1974 and 1976 Bayern Munich won 3 consecutive European cups On route to those championships they scored a combined total of 26 goals from the QF to final stages Gerd muller scored 9 of those goals: 35% direct involvement Euesbio Between 1962 and 1965 benfica won the European cup once and finished runner up twice Benfica scored 31 QF to final round goals during those years Euesbio scored 11 of those: 35% direct involvement Van basten Milan won 2 consecutive European cups in 1989 and 1990 Between the QF to final rounds of those championships they scored 16 goals Van basten scored 7 of those goals: 44% direct involvement Cristiano ronaldo Between 2014 and 2018 real Madrid won 3 European cups in 4 years During those years real Madrid scored 45 QF to final round goals Cristiano Ronaldo scored 22 of those: 49% direct involvement
How the things changed, right? 1257658546218549250 is not a valid tweet id 1258001734091366401 is not a valid tweet id 1258334486221258753 is not a valid tweet id
What a joke Suarez 13/14 scored more goals from out the box than Ronaldo nazario did in any league season in Holland,Spain,Italy or brazil Quote me on that aswell They are different players with different strenghts We do know Suarez fulfilled the role of complete forward(31 open play goals+12 assists in 13/14) And master poacher(15/16) both to a very high degree In both versions he was European golden shoe winner When R9 won European golden shoe in 97 it was as a CF with 0 defensive responsibilities,No tracking back most his dribbling runs were for himself and not to create openings/chances for other teammates When he played the role of complete forward in 97/98 he was outscored by bierhoff in serie A One thing for certain IMO is R9 never matured enough that one could say he was a more complete striker than Luis Suarez(or even Thierry Henry for that matter) A more spectacular scorer of solo goals sure Much Inferior though when it comes to open play assists and defensive contribution
It is not a joke, this could even lead to a reflection on R9 being a terrible tap-in scorer or having fewer opportunities to raise their numbers with easy goals.But more than that, it is a interesting note and date of players from the past (in mythical seasons). Btw, you are so sick and out of your mind with all this forumbigsoccer bullshit (and Cristiano Ronaldo idolatry) that you can't even aprecciate football more in the pure sense of the meaning. I suspect you've been unlucky in your real life recently to be so sensitive. Even uruguayans would think R9 was much better than Suarez and so I do as well.
I never understood how or why Andy cole is such a underrated CF I can't think of more than five 1990s era strikers who were as prolific as he was His prime 55 goals in 70 Top flight matches as a 21-24 year old for Newcastle His shooting technique became even more refined at Manchester United Scored at least 2 chielinas in the champions league A couple more in the league (i remember one against Leicester when i was younger can't seem to find it through) He scored 5 open play goals in 1 match vs Ipswich Town(league cup I think) No modern era English player Im aware of has ever done that Shearer scored 5 in 1 match vs Sheffield but required 2 penalties His scoring prime was undoubtedly his 34 league goal haul in 1993/94 There was a change in the rules of the European golden shoe in 1996/97 and since then has operated on a points based system The rule change dictated that players in tougher leagues who scored less could win over players in lower leagues who scored more In 1993/94 a random player called David Taylor with 0 caps for the Wales NT scored 43 league goals in the "league of wales" Players like Romario scored 30 non pen league goals in Spain and cole scored even more in England but couldn't win I guess some people would argue the player with the most goals=wins the award for the player with most goals Others would argue goals scored in top 5 European leagues hold more weight as others The bottom line is had the post 1996/97 rules been in place during 1993/94 then Andy cole would've been the first and only English player to win the European golden shoe (so far at least) Lets just get some things out of the way: Andy cole scored 187 PL goals placing him third All time in the top scorers list. Remarkable? shearer takes top spot with 260 goals Puts things into perspective right? Shearer scored 56 league penalties Andy Cole scored only one Also If you removed penalty goals he has a superior gpg ratio to Alan shearer For a player who has a undeserved reputation as a unglamorous goal poacher Andy cole chipped in with 127 assists I dont know exactly how many assists shearer had but im almost certain he is nowhere near that mark His around play dropped significantly after his first season at Newcastle Andy Cole matched the league goalscoring highs of shearer at the exact time as shearer Went to Manchester United and formed a great and now legendary partnership with Dwight yorke Both of whom played significant roles in Manchester Uniteds treble winning side Andy Cole is a treble winner a unique distinction and he was not a bit part player either before people start throwing random examples of players who were lucky to be squad players on champions league winning teams Cole had tangible contributions particularly in the group of death He is the third all time scorer in the now almost 30 year history of the premier league Has 127 PL assists https://www.theguardian.com/football/2007/feb/01/1 The premier league website says different but it is not gospel and shouldn't be referred to as such Just for Manchester United in this thoroughly researched list he made 67 assists(all comps) https://www.redcafe.net/threads/manchester-united-goals-and-assists-1987-88-today.396084/page-4 More assists for Manchester United than Cristiano ronaldo and Eric cantona and the PL website only credits him with 73 PL assists https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/goal_assist?se=-1 Its a complete joke It is probably blasphemy to say this but he had in his career more league assists than romario,Marco van basten or R9 had in their entire careers And no I dont make this up either Romario had 77 league assists in his career https://es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romário Van basten had 53 league assists in his career https://es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marco_van_Basten Ronaldo nazario had 65 league assists in his career https://es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronaldo Maybe/possibly these are not entirely accurate but surely the margin of error cannot be that huge Only Ryan giggs and Denis bergkamp provided more premier league assists than cole These are just the hard cold facts He's given a bad rap for his NT record and the way his career fizzled out joining a series of lowly teams His prime however isn't given the recognition it deserves Elite goalscorers are a very rare commodity At the very top level There really wasn't many better than him in the 90s truthfully To deny this you'd have to engage yourself in a great deal of revisionism or just be living in self denial
Come was a player that was similar in some ways to cavani scores a lot but missed a lot of chances he was a great player though
Andy Cole made 127 open play assists in the premier league That is almost 3 Times as many assists as what cavani made in his entire league career(46) https://www.transfermarkt.com/edinson-cavani/detaillierteleistungsdaten/spieler/48280 Andy is underrated because he is misunderstood as a player (his role) He was as much a pioneer for future strikers as George weah was in the 90s He just never got the credit he deserved Cavani scored 212 non penalty goals+46 wide assists in 413 league matches in France and italy Andy cole scored 186 non penalty goals+127 assists in 424 premier league matches This doesn't even include his prime which was played in the old english first division He was the quickest by miles to reach 50 PL goals+assists He had in his first 43 newcastle matches 38 league goals+14 assists 0 penalties https://www.themag.co.uk/2017/11/ex...gue-goals-assists-andy-cole-newcastle-united/ Cavani or even aguero cant touch this playing on teams that can score 90 or 100 league goals per season League football aside Andy Cole sunk juventus in a champions league semi-final who had a prime zidane,prime del piero,prime edgar davids etc If it was Zidane/Beckham and not Cole who made that cross assist for the equaliser they'd be eulogising it until this day In my humble opinion Cole is a class above cavani At his best 34 non pen league goals+10 assists in a single season (93/94)at 22 years old he'd probably be a challenger for any striker in the world right now
I wonder what accounts for the difference of 60 odd assists. The Guardian must have had a source for 127 open play assists I guess, but we don't have a breakdown do we? I did assume that Premier League website (supplied by OPTA I think, even if some of it is retrospective) was pretty much correct, in terms of a narrow definition of assists. It is not like the UEFA/Champions League situation where early years assists are missing. I guess a handful of assists can be wrongly attributed or debateable. If the Guardian didn't make some kind of error it must be down to a lot of rebounds, penalties won etc I suppose? They didn't state exactly how many they were giving to Giggs and Bergkamp at that stage, to compare with the OPTA numbers.
Cole played in a 442 with a partner which helps assists cavani has played as a lone striker in a completely different role
Helps with a difference of 81 assists in only 11 more matches Cavani also functioned as a wing facilitator to zlatan ibrahimovic in his first 3 PSG seasons @PDG1978 Alan shearer with 34 league goals in 1994/95 premiership season finished 32nd in the 1995 ballon dor behind Tony yeboah who only scored 19 league goals in the EPL and bundesliga I see shearer did score a tonne of penalties (10) But I dont think voters then (or now) calculated a players worth based on non penalty goals That seems to me an injustice of the highest magnitude Patrick kluivert 94/95 with only 16 non penalty goals in the eredivisie and 2 goals in Europe finished 27 places ahead of shearer Patrick kluivert 94/95 was 27 places better than Alan shearer? Even worse probably juan esnaider 94/95 finished ahead of shearer with only 14 non penalty league goals for real zaragoza https://es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Eduardo_Esnáider https://www.transfermarkt.com/juan-esnaider/elfmetertore/spieler/3856 I see premier league players were often in the 90s overlooked in the ballon dor when it came to votes
I think maybe the Premier League was a little undervalued back then (but some cases like Cantona and Giggs proved good Ballon d'Or placings could be achieved playing for a PL club, without a big CL run), but on the other hand it was a relatively open league in playing style and with some financial and/or quality disparity between a few of the top clubs (which Blackburn had become) and other clubs. The Ballon d'Or wouldn't be based on 1994/95, but on 1995 calendar year (I think the further back we go possibly the more it was a calendar year award). However Shearer did score a record amount of goals for Blackburn in the 1995 calendar year anyway, but also had a goal drought at International level albeit in friendlies, while Blackburn were knocked out early in the CL in 1995/96 and in the opening weeks of the season had a bad start in general. I suppose it's also a case of everyone picking 5 names, not everyone picking 20 names, which might give a more realistic overall perspective for lower placings. I guess people would look beyond numbers too, and while several of his goals were very impressive or spectacular he wasn't a highly skilled or creative player (despite a very good tally of assists for 1994/95 as a whole I know - his kicking quality did translate to good crosses and passes quite often I think, even if mostly standard ones). As for Cole I am starting to think maybe the difference in assist tallies can just be down to wide vs narrow assists indeed. I think it could be that for example that accounts for a difference of 5 or 6 assists for Bryan Roy in 1994/95, so with Cole over a number of seasons similar differences could start to tally up. His partnership with Yorke was particularly fruitful in terms of link up play, and that was acknowledged generally I think (with examples of impressive goals like in Europe vs Barcelona due to combination play), but it's also true that he had more assists (according to Premier League website/OPTA too) than anyone in 1993/94 in the Premier League, even if Beardsley was more the creative spark and Cole the finisher it would be fair to say. Sometimes strikers can tally up assists with the final pass/cross, but still he probably should get credit for it more than he does (we could try to find a Newcastle 1993/94 goal compilation or season review maybe to look in detail at how the assists arrived).
It is over a full calendar year. So his 1995-96 goals in the play-offs against Ireland (two goals), against Real Madrid, winning goal against Feyenoord and so on count for something as well. In the narrative he was the man (with symbolic shirt number 15) who won the Champions League for his club, brought his national team to the European Championships, and to a victory in the Bernabeu. It was Real Madrid's joint largest home defeat at that point in a continental game, and it could have been 0-5 instead of 0-2 if it was not for the referee (the german cartel referee Hellmut Krug, who clearly enormously disadvantaged Ajax; even Jorge Valdano had to admit this). He didn't always score a lot, but he has a respectable number of goals at the big moments and was also a prolific assister. He tended to deliver when it mattered the most.
There is a Newcastle season review I notice for 93/94 on Youtube: Already in the intro section is a shot saved that rebounds to be tapped in (maybe a wide rules 'open play assist'?) and a simple square pass (albeit a good one where it was aimed obviously) in the penalty area for an assist (that surely would be counted by OPTA too I think, but it's not a wonder assist of course or an unusually good one that stands out). Although Forest were in the league below that season I was still watching Match of the Day every week but I don't have a vivid recollection about Cole's assists. That video should show them all though anyway.
The number of 127 open play assists mentioned in above article is incidentally the same as in this source: https://web.archive.org/web/20160318132537/http://www.premiersoccerstats.com/Records.cfm?DOrderby=OPAss&DYearby=All Seasons https://gunnersphere.com/2011/07/vi...eatest-goal-makers-in-premier-league-history/ "There are much more incontrovertible statistics by which Cole should be judged. In the history of the Premiership, only Alan Shearer has scored more goals (260 to Cole's 187). Even more tellingly for a player whose approach play never got any credit, never mind as much as it deserved, only Ryan Giggs and Dennis Bergkamp have more assists from open play than Cole's 127. And if you exclude penalties (Shearer 56, Cole 1), Cole's goals-per-Premiership-games ratio is actually higher than Shearer's." https://www.theguardian.com/football/2007/feb/01/1 See, they overlap but I'm not sure whether it is the same. As for how to rate Andy Cole, I think as a bread and butter striker he was fairly good. He has 0.73 non-penalty goals + assists per 90 minutes in the Premier League. That places him near the top of his time. Spoiler (Move your mouse to the spoiler area to reveal the content) Show Spoiler Hide Spoiler 1990 - 2000 Cantona 0.73 Andy Cole 0.73 Les Ferdinand 0.68 Shearer 0.63 Others: Klinsmann 0.79 Vialli 0.67 Asprilla 0.65 Yeboah 0.62 1995 - 2005 Bergkamp 0.72 Hasselbaink 0.71 Owen 0.65 Others: Solskjaer 0.83 Wiltord 0.62 Suker 0.63 Weah 0.53 2000 - 2010 Thierry Henry 0.95 Drogba 0.79 Van Nistelrooij 0.70 Others: Reyes 0.74 Gudjohnsen 0.59 Shevchenko 0.53 2005 – 2015 Van Persie 0.82 Rooney 0.70 Torres 0.69 Tevez 0.66 Berbatov 0.64 Others: Cristiano Ronaldo 0.66 Van der Vaart 0.66 Robben 0.64 Nani 0.64 --- Fabregas 0.53 Arguably he was also a relatively effectual player. For example this: And this, for the entire 1995 to 2005 period (compared to his own team and own league): Things counting against him: Did virtually nothing at international level for country. Relative one-dimensional striker. Shearer clearly more well-rounded and also his successor Van Nistelrooij (against the bigger teams much more so). Also his partner Dwight Yorke had better guile and touch overall. Solskjear too. A relative flat-track bully. 6 goals in 24 against Chelsea, 5 in 23 against Tottenham, and most of all 3 in 18 against nearest rivals Arsenal (Arsenal 3rd in 1996-97 and then always top two between 1997 and 2005). It's a pattern repeating itself somewhat at continental level, in terms of the level of the opponent and the stage it is in. Maybe this is harsh though, because you can level similar criticism to much greater strikers and free role players (Zico, for example, who is also underwhelming in terms of showing up against the best teams and outside his own stadium). I'd say: very good and influential in regular games, less so for the bigger games. Could fit in a team frame, but relatively one-dimensional.
Furthermore, in the 1995 FIFA World Player of the Year no player of that team finished higher than 14th (Overmars), very typically....
Laudrup: 1:40 - " Romario was , technically , the best player that I played with in my career". And some thoughts about the end of the dream team.
He has 18 Champions League goals, without penalty it seems. The players above him are Sterling (19), Kane (20), Gerrard (21), Lampard (23), Scholes (24) and Rooney (30). Six players. Maybe the scoring feats of Messi and Ronaldo (without going into how good they are and what luxuries they might have or not have) conceal this is not bad; as remarked I think it is lop-sided towards the weaker teams and early stages perhaps (but: you can say the same about various great strikers; scoring against elite teams at national team and continental level). Other countries, number of players above that mark of 18 CL goals: Argentina - 7 Brazil - 6 France - 5 Germany - 2 (T. Müller and Mario Gomez) Italy - 3 (Inzaghi, Del Piero, Simone) Netherlands - 5 Portugal - 2 (Ronaldo and Figo) Spain - 4 (Raul, Morientes, Fabregas, Torres) I'd expect Spain having more...