That’s a fair point. It’s like he just got old man slow way too quickly. I mean, I feel him, granted I’m older than he is, but if someone asked me to move like a kid again, I think I’d have to respond, I don’t move laterally much anymore.
In addition to his ankle injury, didn't he also have damage to his foot as well? Or was that a more recent development?
It all got really complicated, as I recall. There was surgery for nerve damage but was that due to the twisted ankle? I don't think so but I'm not sure.
I don't know if I've posted this before, I like to look at our players in terms of tiers. Tier 1: Wouldn't look out of place on the roster of any team in the world. Not saying that they'd be a starter, but a player you could see at least getting sub minutes for anyone. Right now, it's Pulisic by himself in this tier. But I'd say Adams, Dest, and Reyna have the potential to hit this level. These guys are/will be true difference makers for the USMNT and have the potential (if enough emerge) to elevate the team to a level beyond anything we've seen in the past. Tier 2: Wouldn't last at any of the true super clubs, but could get regular minutes with above-average teams in the top 4 leagues. Brooks is in this tier, and I'd put McKennie here too. McKennie is young enough that he could take a big jump and move up to tier 1, but if he only improves incrementally from his current level, this is where he is. The players in this tier are/will be good (maybe even very good) players for the USMNT, but don't represent a significant step up from the better players of past generations of the USMNT. Tier 3: Solid players for mid- and lower-table teams in the big 4 leagues or good players for top teams in the 2nd divisions of the big 4 leagues. Here you have guys like Yedlin, Ream, and Morales. These players can be solid for the USMNT, but you're always left wanting someone better.
After the ankle injury, I believe MB had two surgeries for nerve-related issues in the ankle/foot. Europe is such a great winnower of talent. In MLS, Wondolowski and Donovan were goat-level players. In Europe, there's no way they would've shared the same league. In terms of Euro-based talent, I'd look it as--- top-5 ucl club players top-5 top-half of the table players top-5 mid-level of the table players c'ship-to-bottom half of the top-5 table players elite rising talent in the youth leagues or mid-tier euro-leagues
oh geez, here come the " oh but his foot injury" part of being a world class player is having the mental drive and hunger to be world class. Bradley never had it because he was spoiled his whole life in the American soccer circles. he was being rotated even before his foot injury in September 2013, he went 18 minutes after the first 90 he went and Roma were hunting for upgrades to make the Champions league and perform there. MLS swooped in to save face of his limitations. which drew the ire of Klinsmann because finally Bradley was going to have to adapt on his own and fight to be top-dog. Its why Bradley couldent crack a mid-tier at best EPL Aston Villa but Dempsey, Cameron, etc. could. he had to drop down go to Italy to improve his game, get inspiration from Klinsmann, and get a reality check. Jermaine Jones had worse injuries than Bradley, and Bradley never hit Jermaine Jones 2014 WC level. Its the hunger and drive that made Dempsey and Jones, the best. During copa 2016, jones rose to the occasion where Bradley stumbled. they both had major leg injuries. Jones career was put on hold for a 1.5- 2 years? Jones was rated the Best DM in the Bundesliga and got some Germany caps even before his 2008-2009 breakout season. Only Adams has done anything close to that for his 10-game stint before his injury In fact, when Bradley was in his best form and Jones was getting back to his, Jones was the better and more impactful player during the 2013 friendly vs Germany in DC. Bradley was really good, but that's about it. At McKennie's current level. key player on Europa-Level club.
I thought it was more his foot that was the problem. IIRC, he hurt it by kicking it into the ground during warmups right before a game. That was right before he fell off a cliff as a player, and fell out of favor with the fanbase.
I think there is another level at the top of this. Top 4-8 clubs. These change a bit over time but are pretty obvious at any point. Right now, it is Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern Munich, Liverpool, Man City, PSG, and Juventus. These are the teams that buy/steal players from the other Top 5 UCL Clubs. The English teams have changed over the last WC cycle, but the others have been pretty stable. Canada and Costa Rica are the only CONCACAF teams with anyone at that level. I know Mexico has had one previously, maybe more. We had a player transfer to that level but not make it (Donovan), and some rumors of players moving to that level (Fabian). Dest could be at this level next year, maybe not yet. We have youth players in the youth and reserve teams of these teams, quite a few at the moment. None of the previous youth players have amounted to much though. I don't know if having players at that level is more important than having a bunch of players at your top tier. Just interesting that we've never had any and we could have some soon.
Steffen may also be at that level next season, as the rumor is that he'll be the number 2 at Man City.
But he won't start. I think the idea behind the original post is that a player is a key contributor. Playing with the kids in the EFL Cup is not really the level we are talking ;-) But he would be an injury away, no doubt.
Mexico had Rafa Marquez at Barca. If we were a France or Brazil I'd have added that extra level at the top. Another layer at the bottom would be more appropriate, though.
And Chicharito at RM. (And ManU - but not when it was really a top 8 club, IMO). Most will reply, "Well, he hardly played," but if it were a Yank with 23 appearances and seven goals for Real Madrid (on a one year loan), we would anoint him our Messiah.
top-5 perennial ucl club players-----Pulisic, Reyna top-5 ucl club players-----Adams, McKennie, Weah, Seibatcheu top-5 top-half of the table players---Chandler, Brooks c'ship-to-bottom half of the top-5 table players----Holmes, Sargent, Steffen, Yedlin, Robinson, Morales, CCV, Ream mid-tier euro-leagues----Horvath, EPB, Dest, Boyd, Ammon, Cappis, Moore, Green, Nova, Durkin, Niko elite talent in the youth leagues----Otasowie, Vassilev, Richards, Llanez, KDLF, Soto, Ordunze not exhaustive
I remember, "he who must not be named", but I couldn't think if they had someone before that. They had Chicharito at ManU when that club was probably actually in the elite. I don't think Arsenal were when Vela was there.
I think there's a meaningful gap between these levels: multi year career in bottom half of the top-5 table players----Yedlin, Morales careers that have never established themselves at top 5 level: Sargent, Steffen, Robinson, Holmes, Miazga, CCV, Ream, Wood My hope is that Steffen, Sargent, Robinson, Holmes move to the Yedlin/Morales level but right now only Steffen has shown the ability to compete effectively against top tier opponents (he's on the list as he's only done it for one year - by next season, he'll likely have moved up).
I think that is a good list. I do think Dest and Ajax are not really in the same league as Danish and Turkish league clubs and lower table Belgian clubs. I think Ajax is of a level closer to Leipzig, Dortmund, and Chelsea than St. Truiden.
There are certainly different ways of classifying players. I just wanted a broad, quick-and-dirty metric. I'd consider Wood to have had c'ship-to-bottom half of top-5 career. I just considered league level in that instance.
Understood - I simply think that there's a meaningful difference between those levels in that the ability to consistently earn minutes over several seasons against the best talents in the Big 4 is quite different from being a player in the Championship where the average level is so far below the opponents in the big 4. Ream is a perfect example - looked great in leading his team to promotion but clearly out of his element in the EPL so he (and his entire team) porpoised back down.
I would clearly have Howard and Keller a notch above but then I also think those guys were truly world class. I would then put Steffen in a pot with Freidel, Cuzan, and Meola.
Were Keller and Howard world class? Or is that view of them just cuz they were our only "very good" players during their times? I think of world class players starting on world class teams, such a the top 15-20 in the world. Outside of Howard, who started for a year before he was run out of town for too many errors, were they ever starting for world class teams? I thought Keller was mostly in mid-level Bundesliga teams?
I’d agree they had some good seasons but to be truly WC you need to do it at that level for an extended period of time. WC is doing it year and year out. If they were WC the top clubs would have come knocking.