The 2021 U-20 Qualifying Thread

Discussion in 'Youth National Teams' started by Peretz48, Mar 18, 2019.

  1. bigt8917

    bigt8917 Member+

    May 10, 2015
    What is a club youth coach going to do about a player who wants to go abroad? That's more of a first team coach/sporting director issue than a u16 coach issue.

    So by that logic, the agents of Weston Mckennie, Pulisic, Sargent, Tyler Adams, Gio Reyna, etc all need to be scrutinized as having agendas against MLS. NYCFC and FC Dallas need to fire their U19 coaches because a couple of their star players didn't sign a homegrown deal.
     
  2. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    I understand MLS has its panties in a twist over this, but as a USMNT fan, I really don't care. It seems like there was a lot of high end players coming from this man's coaching. That he is not continuing this anywhere now is a problem. I don't care if his players left the Galaxy, why would I?

    As far as I can tell, those players followed Brian to the Galaxy from Chivas and before that his local club team. The Galaxy didn't find Uly and Alex and Efra and give them to Brian. Brian found them and brought them all together to the Galaxy because they were the only pro team allowed in LA at the time. What did the Galaxy do for Alex Mendez really? He was coached by Brian from when he was 10 or something. The uniform changed, but that is about it.

    It is a particular MLS thing to consider these players, "LA Galaxy property" because they were born in LA. Did the Galaxy give them a pro pathway or a decent pro offer? These kids are just doing what all the kids in their generation are doing: avoiding MLS. For good reasons too. Has the Galaxy developed anyone ever?

    Claudio Reyna let Gio go for free. His bosses didn't like it and got rid of him. MLS came right in with a new job for him in Austin. So, all this hysteria about selling out the club seems hypocritical.

    If I had a club, I'd hire Brian. That he can't get a job with the success he had is an indictment of the way the game is run in this country.
     
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  3. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    But the situation is unique to the USA.

    At Dortmund, they don't have a "right" to every kid born with so many miles of their stadium. Every kid that goes there chooses to go there.

    At Dortmund, they hire coaches to coach the kids they have found. The Galaxy basically absorbed Brian's existing Chivas team. None of his players were found by the Galaxy before they were playing for Chivas (who actually just absorbed Brian's PTP club team iirc). The kids were loyal to Brian and only peripherally even connected to the Galaxy.

    At Dortmund, a kid could sign a contract and know they would get a world class development environment, a shot at the first team, or could move somewhere else easily. In MLS, you sign with whatever MLS "owns your rights" and you are stuck there for 5 years.
     
  4. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Are you really trying to compare an independent agent - Cory Gibbs - signing a kid away from FC Dallas and Kleiban who was being paid by the Galaxy to develop kids who his brother (and possibly himself) steered away to other clubs (in Europe)? Yes, Kleiban coached then at a young age and brought them to the Galaxy. If he didn't want to develop them for the Galaxy why didn't he stay where he was? In most businesses like say Texas Instruments if you develop / invent anything while employed by them your contract gives the rights / patents to the company. A coach employed by a club with a pro team should have no illusions of what they are developing kids for.
     
  5. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    #730 gogorath, May 19, 2020
    Last edited: May 19, 2020
    LOL.

    If a Dortmund coach used his position to funnel players to a relative for financial gain, he'd be fired in a heartbeat.

    These the basics of business ethics and against the code of conduct of any established business.

    If the same person did that, and then the brother agent proceeded to refuse to even show his client an offer by Dortmund -- which is is the scuttlebutt - the coach might even themselves out on their ass.

    You say things like "The kids were loyal to Brian and only peripherally even connected to the Galaxy" which is incredibly naive.

    The Galaxy paid for Kleiban's salary and all the other coach's salary. It's not just Brian running out there. They pay for facilities and gear and travel and all sorts of things.

    The player absolutely has a right to pick and choose where they play, and the Galaxy need to make a worthwhile offer. And I don't know that they did, and I don't know even if they did, if any of those players would have taken it.

    What I do know is this: it's extremely unethical for an employee to funnel business to a relative. And it's an extraordinarily justified firing if that relative essentially killed any chance of the Galaxy signing.

    Kleiban didn't make these players. I don't think he's a bad coach but acting like he made Uly Llanez out of nothing or something is silly. There's no level of good that allows for the ridiculous ethical machinations you'd need to make to keep him around, but he's not worth it to any professional team.

    And I say this as someone who doesn't think it's unethical for a coach to tell a player their options or even recommend heading to Europe.

    But that's not what occurred here.
     
  6. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

    Feb 13, 2001
    So I have listened to all of Kleiban's videos the past few weeks and one thing that comes clear is there is a tinge of racism to them.

    Any black player is "athletic" but lacks skill, lacks a "soccer mentality" etc...

    I realize our country's soccer development has long put an emphasis on athleticism and there are legit criticisms that come with that.

    But it seems like almost all the players Kleiban is down on - George Campbell, Weston McKennie, George Bello, Gyasi Zardes and Aboubacar Keita were all named in the past couple of videos - were Brothas.

    Again, there's legit criticism for all these players. But it seems like he goes out of his way to talk ish about the black dudes and never has any praise for them and his critiques of their style of play fall back on typical stereotypes about black players.
     
  7. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    So it’s prima facia bad to funnel business to a brother (as opposed to introducing a player to an agent and letting them choose) but the same poster is mum on having A closed door process where an organization hires the brother of one the decision makers?

    either both are bad (and I think they are) or neither are bad. You cannot pick and choose.
     
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  8. SilentAssassin

    Apr 16, 2007
    St. Louis
    I haven't watched all of his videos, but I didn't get that sense at all. He knocked Bello because he thought Kobe was much better. He knocked Keita because he thought McKenzie was much better. He was very high on Otasowie. He was very hard on Joe Scally. He said he'd take Nagbe over McKennie. He said Berhalter takes Gyasi because he knows the system, not because of a black stereotype. He mentioned lack of mentality and technique for several white players and hispanic players, too. It seems to me like he just prefers players who are better at possession, regardless of color. If a guy's best attribute is his athleticism, and he's black, are you just not supposed to talk about his athleticism?
     
  9. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    I don't think it as simple as you say. Gary and Brian were business partners at their club. The kids in question started with the brothers when they were 8 or 10. When those kids turned 12 or so, they became Chivas players when that MLS franchise brought Brian in. Then when Chivas folded, the Galaxy brought them in. The kids then were what 15,16? I'm not going to bother looking up the exact timeline.

    All during that time, the kids and their parents had been involved with Brian and Gary. To paint this as Brian taking the property of the Galaxy and "funneling" them to Gary is over simplistic. Following Uly's Dad on social media it is obvious they were loyal to the whole Kleiban organization and would have used Gary as an agent if they signed with LA or any other team. Players from that team did sign with the Galaxy, so it wasn't like it couldn't happen. I doubt Brian told the kids to do anything with Gary. The kids and parents have always known Gary; that is how youth clubs work.

    Denying that Kleiban had any effect is silly too. If you look at the Galaxy talent ID and development before him, they had almost zero success. Then they have 5+ future pros and NT players? Even if that is an aberration, I don't know how you can tell now. As I said, as a USMNT fan, let's take the conservative approach and at least let the man continue coaching and ID'ing talent somewhere in the vast USA.

    The Galaxy lost good prospects before Kleiban and they will lose good prospects after. Whatever agent Uly signed for would have probably steered them to Europe because they had interest there and it is the correct sporting and economic choice.
     
  10. David Kerr

    David Kerr Member+

    United States
    Oct 18, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It basically is that simple. If Gary and Brian just told these kids to go to Europe and not sign in the MLS it would be fine. However, when they are acting as their agents and will receive financial gain from those players success that becomes a much bigger problem. If you are an agent you can't be a coach at a club and tell that player to leave the club and be the only one at the club who receives any compensation for that player. That will get you fired and blackballed immediately.

    Maybe Brian didn't have any involvement (doubtful) but when you represent a company who now represents these players and has two major anti MLS loose canons like Gary and John Pranjic then there is no chance your job is safe. Every job will ask you if you have any major conflicts of interest and when you do you are either fired or another candidate is given the same job. Why should Brian have been treated any different?
     
  11. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Let's ignore the obvious racial problem here because it really could be just a style thing. Is he so enamored of his preferred style that if he was say coach of the French national team he would have used almost all different players and not won the last World Cup? Perhaps he thinks France has enough skill guys that could also win the WC?
     
  12. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I never said the Kleibans had no effect. I just said that he's not producing kids at some level way over other alternatives. I'm sure he's a good coach. There's a lot of good coaches. He got some of the best kids in the best part of the country and some of them turned out well. Good. There's a world of coaches out there who won't violate any terms of employment who are also good.

    As for the rest of it, from an employer standpoint, it is pretty clear. You can make justification for the Kleibans all you want. It really doesn't matter Brian's intent even; it's a terrible conflict of interest that cost the Galaxy a lot of money and value, and there's no evidence that Brian would be looking to rectify the situation with a different employer.

    It's even more clear it's shady when you realize that Gary refuses to admit his financial interest in the players -- if everything was above board, wouldn't he publicly be an agent?

    Add in it's pretty clear the high levels of arrogance and in Gary's case, just a tendency to be a major league ahole, and it's an easy decision.

    Dennis te Klose knows a lot of good youth coaches. He doesn't need one with this kind of baggage. Which is why Brian is making youtube videos.
     
  13. David Kerr

    David Kerr Member+

    United States
    Oct 18, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What I am confused about is why he doesn’t go to a USL side like Orange County SC and build the academy there who’s intent is to send kids off to Europe
     
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  14. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    I know everyone here thinks it is cut and dried; but I don't think the Galaxy had real cause to fire Brian. Not that would hold up in court; which is where a wrongful termination suit would end up. Most likely a settlement or payout of most of his remaining contract is being done. He is using the time to look for opportunities in Europe possibly, or build out his coaching education business, or part of the settlement was he couldn't take a job for a certain amount of time.

    "Players who we didn't have under contract, signed pro contracts somewhere else, and his brother was their agent" might sound compelling here. But I doubt that flies in court. You would have to prove Brian forced the players to sign with his brother. And you would have to be so sure you would win as to spend $thousands litigating the case. Most likely, the case is hearsay if not just hurt feelings and it made sense to settle and pay out most of the rest of Brian's contract.

    All the above is speculation. I really have no knowledge of the situation. But the above is a common thing in corporate America generally. It is also common with every fired coach in pro sports.
     
  15. TarHeels17

    TarHeels17 Member+

    Jan 10, 2017
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Because, realistically, he won't be able to recruit the level of talent needed to recreate his previous classes. He doesn't seem interested in taking a step down.

    I think his dream job is to get appointed as the head of an academy of one of those random clubs owned in Europe by an American. It would make sense for him to try to get an assistant job at Salamanca or somewhere that speaks Spanish.
     
  16. David Kerr

    David Kerr Member+

    United States
    Oct 18, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Because Brian and Gary have a financial stake in the development of those players no matter where they sign it becomes a conflict of interest for Brian to be working for a club. That is what the courts would say. This is why agents are never coaches and the coaches related to agents rarely have jobs. If Brian did not represent 343 he would still have a job, it is as simple as that.
     
  17. Dave Marino-Nachison

    Jun 9, 1999
    Part of me wants to be like HEY GUYS THIS IS A THREAD ABOUT THE U20 CYCLE and then I'm just like what the hell, at least we're talking about ... something.
     
  18. David Kerr

    David Kerr Member+

    United States
    Oct 18, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
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  19. bigt8917

    bigt8917 Member+

    May 10, 2015
    And this is a bad thing?
     
  20. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    Haha, there are a few threads like that around here. I think, "should stop feeding this beast", but then it beats reading the news...
     
  21. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    Easier said than done. I don’t think teams want to bring him in, and there might also be some other issues there that aren’t public that could be the reason. Controversy follows him and his brother. I think teams are steering clear of hiring him, even if he’s good enough to take a step down and coach at that level.
     
  22. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Since that financial stake is not aligned to his employer's financial stake, yes, there's an issue there.
     
  23. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

    Feb 13, 2001
    Since we're just speculating, I suspect that if Kleiban was negotiating a settlement with the Galaxy, he wouldn't be out making videos hyping players from their academy, particularly ones who went abroad.

    I also think if there were a wrongful termination suit we'd have heard about it already.

    I think Kleiban has something to offer American soccer coaching and hope he gets another gig working with good young players.

    But if he doesn't, it will be because of the the things he and his camp have said and done. He's not the victim here. This is self-inflicted.
     
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  24. no exit

    no exit Member+

    DC United
    United States
    Nov 20, 2019
    As is often the case, I find invocations of "MLS" as an entity a bit strange and monolithic. Kleiban was hired under the Klein regime -- with Klein, being an Arena protege, certainly swimming in the U.S. soccer mainstream if there ever was such a person.

    Kleiban was then fired by Dennis te Kloese, a Dutchman who briefly spent some time with Chivas USA but mostly worked in Mexico. That seems like more of an outsider to the MLS and US soccer establishment to me.

    Now, in reality, we really shouldn't be simple contrarians and take the opposite position as the U.S. soccer establishment -- insofar as there's ever a simple way to characterize a group that could reasonably include everyone from Claudio Reyna and Jesse Marsch to Chris Klein and Curt Onalfo. But if your instincts are to go the opposite way on whatever the American establishment believes...it seems to me you should support Kleiban's firing.
     
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  25. ielag

    ielag Member+

    Jul 20, 2010
    You don’t think a multibillion dollar conglomerate such as AEG has attorneys that have combed through everything?
     

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