Are they an important part of the team's planning? Obviously yes. I don't think anybody is arguing that. If all goes well, he absolutely will be a core player for the team, eventually. I don't think a single person on here is doubting that. That's why I think the argument is stupid. But stuff happens. Maybe he'll have an affair with someone's significant other (Harkes). Maybe he'll die of a drug overdose before he plays for the team (Len Bias). Maybe he'll get lazy (Adu). Maybe he'll get in a car accident or have a bunch of horrible injuries (Davies, Holden, Renken, Taitague, etc.) If you want to call him a core player now, before he plays a game for the team, go ahead. But it seems like you're just arguing over words, while nobody disagrees that he will hopefully be an important player for us in the near future.
so lebron wasn’t a core player as soon as he was drafted? All the risks you mentioned are just as true for our other core players as well - so why single out Reyna?
The concept is, you can't be a core player for a team you have never played for. Reyna is not a core player for the NT. Brady is not a core player for Tampa. When the teams are actually playing and both are in those teams, they'll be core players. I would say you should replace the word "is" with "will be". Raw talent is a different discussion. Reyna has more of it than most of our NT, hence he's breaking into BVB. But at his age he'll still need some time to adapt to both the Bund and to become a true core player in the NT.
When he actually played games with Cle he was. Was Greg Oden a core player for Portland as soon as he was drafted? He amounted to nothing and was never relied upon due to injuries. At Reyna's club just a few years ago Joe Gyau under Klopp appeared right on the verge of breaking thru at BVB and showed brightly for the NT. Then....
I thought the whole philosophical discussion was a joke, but I guess not. Yes, Oden was a core player for Portland as soon as he was drafted (though apparently missed a full year because of injury). Brady is a core player for TB. If they played a game today, Brady is their starting QB. Did Gyau play for BVB? Did he appear in multiple games of importance, including knockout CL matches? Right now, if the US played, Reyna is a core player and a starter, with the attack likely built around him and CP. If he gets injured, if he loses his place and gets sent to the U19s, if he decides he'd prefer to play baseball in Alabama - then he is no longer a core player. If Gyau played multiple games of consequence for BVB, he would have been a core player at the time. Then - whatever happened (injuries, i think) means that he is not a core player. Edit - if we can only discuss players who are with the US team, and who are playing, why do we even have a message board? Isn't the purpose of this to create discussion about the future, and about hypotheticals? Should this message board only be open for posting when a US match starts?
I appreciate your consistency in applying the logic that Tom Brady isn’t a core player for TB. I completely disagree but I at least understand your global perspective and can clearly see that it isn’t skewed for the USMNT. the reason I’m persisting on this seemingly semantic point is because I think it’s important to understand how the global soccer meritocracy impact the USMNT which doesn’t have many elite players. We have so few difference makers we need to get over any “time biding” issues and integrate one that we all see ASAP. FFS, he put Hazard to the bench for Dortmund this past weekend (ugh!) and there is no question that hazard would be a core player and starter for the USMNT. Comparing him to gyau is apples and oranges - perhaps the best bad company would be Freddy but I don’t think that’s anywhere close as reyna earned his stripes in BVB’s academy not newly fledged DCU.... it’s not theoretical in that it could very well be that our next game is a vital Hex game and we need to plan to have a strategy that puts our “difference makers” in the absolute best positions to succeed. We should be planning already on how to play reyna at the same time as Pulisic and figuring out which supporting attacking players (Morris, Altidore, Sargent, Holmes, Lletget, Pomykal) put the two of them in the best positions to succeed as a unit. Reverting back to the original point, the Buccaneers are clearly building their strategy and tactics around Brady even though he hasn’t played a down for them. They would be idiotic to do otherwise.
The argument I don’t really understand is that he could get injured and/or lose his form - it’s certainly a risk but how is this any different from how we look at Pulisic, Adams, McKennie, Dest and Brooks (knock on [bobby] wood)?
Have to be careful about this conclusion. He may have beaten him out for this game but with training resuming and the possibility some players have minor knocks (like Reyna himself just picked up) we'll have to see. there's also a lot of games coming up and there might be rotation going on. I do think he's on his way to being a starter I'm just not positive he is right now. I actually think because of his age a rotational starter would be best to manage his minutes.
pegasus - respectfully, this is besides the point. Even if he wasn’t able to fully displace Hazard, he’s still heads and shoulders above our marginal players and we need to plan on how he interplays with Pulisic so that they augment each other rather than interfere. he’s a player that creates issues with the [Mexican] defensive strategy of surrounding Pulisic with defenders as he’s the only attacker they respect - well, that creates a mismatch for Gio who can actually take advantage of it
I actually don't think a single person here disagrees with you. We just minorly disagree on the details (or don't want to jinx him). There is still a very tiny possibility something trips him up. No one is predicting it or wanting it to happen but we have been burned before (albeit by lesser talents). If this virus hadn't come along all of this discussion would be moot as he would have impressed in a camp and either started or gotten heavy minutes in a friendly. We're just in an eternal loop until the world returns to normal. Discussing the same stuff because nothing has changed when it actually should have.
Reyna is talented enough that I don't worry about his getting integrated. He'll be called up from here on out whenever healthy and all he has to do is play somewhere near the level he plays for Dortmund and that's that. Call him whatever you want, core, the future, a kid who still hasn't earned it. He's all of those things, but he will get plenty of time and I am working from the assumption he'll prove his worth as soon as he does. I worry more about kids who are struggling with mid level teams and whether they will ever get their shots over lesser MLS guys and that sort of thing. Reyna is a big time player at a big time club. He's a lock. I really don't worry about anything other than injuries for him.
A great way to destroy the morale of your team and the individual character of your players is to bring new guys in and give them seniority and leadership positions based on their resumes instead of what they've done for the organization they're actually joining. Reyna should be treated like any other player brought in to earn a starting position and prove he's better than the other options. I've no doubt he'll approach the opportunity with the requisite level of professionalism and do exactly that. Giving him something he hasn't earned doesn't do anyone any good.
The worst way to destroy morale is to put lesser players in front of better ones. Reyna isn't a core player because he has a better resume. He has a better resume because he's a far better player right now that Lletget et al. It's not a knock on Sebastian, Holmes or Morris, it's just apples and oranges - none of those guys are UCL knockout level players. The whole canard about only caring about what they've done for their new organization they're joining is a joke - what did the Galaxy do with Ibra before he joined - did he have to earn his spot? Of course not, they immediately slotted him in and starting preparing to build around him.
We have seen this over the last few years as the team has been used to market MLS players. Trapp was made captain... he and Roldan have 20ish caps.
It is ironic that MLS backers don't realize that what Arena and now Berhalter have done is to give "seniority and leadership positions based on...resumes". It's especially ironic that the resume's being promoted are from lesser divisions. It's akin to hiring only graduates of the Carribean medical schools instead of Harvard Med.
To give Berhalter some benefit, Pulidic/Adams/McKennie have all battled some injuries the last 2 years, and some of the players people are pushing for now were not in this position even during the Gold Cup. That being said it is totally fair to criticize the constant calling up and playing of guys who have not performed. I've said before I dont think Daniel Lovitz has anything to garner the hatred he has received... but he also has not done anything to garner praise nor has he done anything to deserve further evaluation like a Nick Lima has shown on and off. The idea of needing players to implement your system is also faulty so there is plenty that is free game especially when you consider that some very good young players in MLS have been pushed aside for Berhalter's guys. But again, I do feel we have to remember that the pool has changed significantly with young guys breaking into teams and upping their game. If Gregg continues to do same old same old that will be concerning
Maybe you can you explain why you think Gio Reyna, a kid with, like, 10 pro appearances in his life, is somehow comparable to Zlatan Ibrahimovic, a living legend who commands the respect of soccer players everywhere due to his many accomplishments at a high level. I guess you also don't know that Zlatan destroyed the Galaxy locker room, which pretty much undermines your point. If you expect Sebastian Lletget or any other professional athlete to graciously defer to a kid who isn't even old enough to buy a beer because he's graced a UCL pitch then I think you're revealing your ignorance about sports, I think. What is gained by placing Reyna ahead of others before he's played a match in a US shirt, except it makes those of you with burning contempt for American MLS players feel better?
LOL - burning contempt for American MLS players. Reyna has a chance to be the best USMNT player of all time - it's not a done deal by any means but he's got that sort of upside that he's shown already by competing at a level that only the best USMNT players have ever sniffed (even your fave Landon). It's not like he lucked his way into minutes either via injury. He earned not only the minutes but the respect of his elite teammates on the field as they treated him as a integral part of the team as opposed to someone who's there to fill a spot (Haji, etc.) WRT Ibra, so did the Galaxy make him earn his spot when he came or did they build around him? You specifically stated that teams never do that, even though it's obvious your Galaxy did. What's to be gained? Earning Hex points, which you do by building around your best players, as our next camp could likely be for a qualification game. Not understanding that players at the UCL knockout rounds are far and above better than minor leaguers in MLS/Championship/B2 (burning contempt!) is crazy but at least it puts your viewpoint that Roldan is good enough to play in the B1 (obvious note: he's almost assuredly not) into perspective. If you think that Lletget or Holmes (note: not in MLS nor am I contemptuous) are better than Reyna right now, you're smoking weed (which is weird since you're so triggered). Lletget is a non-elite MLS players who has never been either an All-Star or Best XI candidate and we'll see where mid-20s Holmes ends up next year - I'm highly confident it won't be for a UCL knockout round team.
You'd have to ask Lletget what he thinks. Obviously, there has been a tension in the USMNT about Europe v MLS going back all the way to Sampson. But I do think most pro soccer players recognize the Champions League as the pinnacle of the sport. They recognize that young players break out and try and take their job constantly. If I had to guess, Lletget fully expects Reyna to be in camp but probably thinks he is currently a better player or would like the chance to prove it. The young core of the team, like Adams and Pulisic, talk about Reyna as being important to integrate quickly. Gregg talks about him that way too. Lletget is a good player, not great. He is another one where when he is actually pushed out, that will be a marker of progress. These are good things and the way teams always work. Having players fall out because of age to be replaced by younger guys who are not as good is a bad cycle. That is where the USMNT was (Trapp for Bradley, Lovitz for Fabian/Beasley, Roldan for Bedoya), but I think you are seeing actual higher talent pushing guys out now (Adams for Trapp/Bradley, McKennie for Roldan, Dest for Yedlin); something that didn't happen much last cycle. Until we have much better players at every position, young kids breaking into the highest levels of world soccer are going to immediately break into the USMNT.
Sorta like Bo Levi Mitchell (Canadian Football MVP in 2018) telling #1 draft pick Joe Burrow or Kyler Murray that they're nothing as he's an adult professional.....
Saw an Adams quote from Gran-ite Wahl's new pod, where he said something along the lines of "Reyna is playing for a top 3 Bundesliga team, he doesn't need to prove anything more than that". So it seems at least our best players are convinced Reyna is up to (and deserves) the challenge of playing against the mighty CONCACAF gauntlet. And this is all PRIOR TO playing for the US!??!! Amazing. Adams must be a real MLS h8r.
I do wonder sometimes if there is a BS in Austria where people try and argue that Marco Friedl is too young and a 28 year old from Sturm Graz is the only safe option...
He’s an athlete he didn’t get to where he is by not being competitive so no he won’t hand it over willing nor should he. But he’s also an athlete and will be able to recognize it the second they step on the practice field who’s better. It won’t take long for him to see Gio is better whether he can buy a beer or not. What’s gained by putting a better player on the field whether he’s played for us or not? Um putting a better player on the field. If the prerequisite to playing for the US was having already played for the US then nobody would ever play for the US. Gio is better now in this second and will likely only get better. I don’t care who’s feelings get hurt. The best play.
Reyna walks into the USMNT with a realistic chance to be the best player in USMNT history and is far above the level of the marginal USMNT player. Ibra walked into the Galaxy with a realistic chance to be the best player in LAG history and even at his advanced age was far above the level of the marginal LAG player.