2019-20 Development Academy

Discussion in 'Youth National Teams' started by TheFalseNine, Jul 17, 2019.

  1. bpet15

    bpet15 Member+

    Oct 4, 2016
    This is a fantastic post.
     
  2. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    The MLSPA has been clear: they believe TC and Solidarity payments restrict player movement and removes available money to be paid to the player.

    And they do. No matter how you think about it, it raises the cost of signing a player, and that's money that could have been paid to the player. In top flight international football, this number is often seen as neglible. But at the MLS level, it's not. At least not to the MLSPA.

    I find it hard people can't see this when many of the same people scream that players shouldn't go to MLS academies or sign the TC letter so they are cheaper for European clubs. Why put a price tag on yourself when you get none of it?

    [quote[Other good questions: If the MLSPA was so against whatever effect TC has on player salaries, then why doesn't it care at all about club only options, five year contracts for minors, allocation lists, the draft, HG territories, or roster limitations?[/quote]

    Why do you think the MLSPA doesn't care about those things? They absolutely do. They have been a lower priority in negotiations than Free Agency, and frankly, MLS has a lot more power than the MLSPA.

    The MLSPA is made up mostly of players who would not have professional soccer jobs if they weren't American or MLS didn't exist. At least not paying wages. And there's a world market where MLS could go get players. The fact that the MLSPA has gotten what they've gotten has got to be seen as some level of win.

    MLS set up TC differently than the USSF imposing it. It may be that there's not a good lawsuit there given the voluntary nature of it.

    TC and Solidarity are a double edged sword right now for American players. Implement it uniformly across the US and some money will flow to non-professional teams ... but it could also really restrict those players' chances. How many of them are worth $200k in TC? It will heavily move professional clubs to look at their own players first. It's not all positives at this level of football.

    Solidarity would be easier to implement from that perspective.
     
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  3. Runhard

    Runhard Member+

    Barcelona
    United States
    Jul 5, 2018
    hearing the MLS DA may not start up until the Spring of next year. If so, the MLS DA teams will have to find something to do this fall.

    All this assume the MLS pro teams get started sometime this year which is not a sure thing. If no MLS pro league, not sure how willing they will be to worry about the youth set up.
     
  4. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
  5. SUDano

    SUDano Member+

    Jan 18, 2003
    Rochester, NY
    Why do you think the MLSPA doesn't care about those things? They absolutely do. They have been a lower priority in negotiations than Free Agency, and frankly, MLS has a lot more power than the MLSPA.

    The MLSPA is made up mostly of players who would not have professional soccer jobs if they weren't American or MLS didn't exist. At least not paying wages. And there's a world market where MLS could go get players. The fact that the MLSPA has gotten what they've gotten has got to be seen as some level of win.

    MLS set up TC differently than the USSF imposing it. It may be that there's not a good lawsuit there given the voluntary nature of it.

    TC and Solidarity are a double edged sword right now for American players. Implement it uniformly across the US and some money will flow to non-professional teams ... but it could also really restrict those players' chances. How many of them are worth $200k in TC? It will heavily move professional clubs to look at their own players first. It's not all positives at this level of football.

    Solidarity would be easier to implement from that perspective.[/QUOTE]
    It's not a cost its an investment. Where competition exists and money flows to those who make the best product it doesn't cost them it allows them to acquire a top product. You'd be right if there is no difference between any developers. Every player would have the same, cost, value, talent and expense. But better youth players should cost more than average ones. You invest in better talent means you win more, you attract more fans, who buy more=more money.
     
  6. SilentAssassin

    Apr 16, 2007
    St. Louis
    Why do you think the MLSPA doesn't care about those things? They absolutely do. They have been a lower priority in negotiations than Free Agency, and frankly, MLS has a lot more power than the MLSPA.

    [/QUOTE]
    A lot of those things don't affect the current members of the MLSPA. They may not like five year contracts for minors, allocation lists, the draft, etc. in principle, but if they're in the MLSPA, it means they already have a contract, so a lot of that stuff doesn't directly affect them, and depressed wages for the new players when there is a salary budget means more money available for veteran players. (granted, cheaper new players also make it harder for veterans to stay in the league, but my guess is most professional athletes overestimate their own abilities, so they underestimate how much of a concern that is) It's not hard to see why free agency is more important to current members of the MLSPA than that other stuff is. It reminds me of when the NFLPA agreed to limit rookie contracts. It's not hard to understand, since none of the future rookies were voting.
     
  7. alslammerz

    alslammerz Member

    Sep 3, 2007
    Staten Island, NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  8. David Kerr

    David Kerr Member+

    United States
    Oct 18, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The new MLS academy is supposed to get announced today.

    Here are the confirmed teams, more may be included as well.

    Phoenix Rising FC (USL), RGV FC Toros Academy (USL), Saint Louis FC (USL), San Antonio FC (USL), Tampa Bay United Rowdies (USL), Barca Residency Academy, IMG Academy, Shattuck-St. Mary’s, NEFC, SF Glens, Albion SC, Ballistic United, Baltimore Armour, Bayside Futebol Club, Beachside of Connecticut, Bethesda FC, Blau Weiss Gottschee, Breakers, Cedar Stars Academy Bergen, Cedar Stars Academy Monmouth, Chargers Soccer Club, Chicago FC United, Chula Vista FC, Cincinnati Premier Soccer Club, City SC, De Anza Force, Empire United Soccer Academy, FC Delco, FC Greater Boston Bolts, FC Westchester, Florida Rush Soccer Club, Indiana Fire Academy, Internationals, Jacksonville FC, L.A. United Football Academy, LA Surf Soccer Club, Lanier Soccer Academy, Metropolitan Oval, Miami Rush Kendall SC, Michigan Wolves, Murrieta Surf Soccer Club, New York Soccer Club, Nomads, Oakwood Soccer Club, PA Classics, Player Development Academy, Real Colorado, RISE Soccer Club, RSL Arizona, Santa Barbara Soccer Club, SC Del Sol, Seacoast United, SF Elite, Silicon Valley SA, Sockers FC Chicago, Solar Soccer Club, South Florida Football Academy, Southern Soccer Academy, Total Futbol Academy, TSF Academy, Valeo Futbol Club, VARDAR Soccer Club, Ventura County Fusion, West Florida Flames, Weston FC
     
  9. David Kerr

    David Kerr Member+

    United States
    Oct 18, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There is a major issue however: "Exact details of the competition structure are being worked out, but the sources expect that the platform will be divided into separate MLS and non-MLS divisions. Multiple sources said that it’s likely that MLS academies will primarily play other MLS academies, and non-MLS clubs will primarily play against each other in their own circuit. There will be some crossover between the divisions in regular season and cup competition for the U-15 and U-17 age groups, but it will be somewhat minimal, with one source pegging it at a maximum of 15-20 percent of the total number of games."

    This is a major issue.

    MLS clubs will also not be required to field u13, u14, and u19 squads which is another major issue.
     
  10. bpet15

    bpet15 Member+

    Oct 4, 2016
    I am about done with the governing bodies in the US. Both USSF and MLS are complete disasters. The amount of travel needed for these U15s and U17s will be stupid, but it will also be prohibitive for the non-MLS clubs if they rarely play the MLS teams.

    They seem to be so worried about competition, which I completely understand. It definitely makes better players, but there are more ways to go about it. There isn't more than 10 true pro prospects in any MLS club and even 10 could be a stretch. Play more kids up an age group and you can get them better competition playing against older kids, even non-MLS ones.

    As of this moment, I can see Portland, KC, Columbus, Orlando, RSL, Austin FC, Minnesota and surely a couple more not entering teams in U13 and U14, possibly even U19.
     
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  11. Runhard

    Runhard Member+

    Barcelona
    United States
    Jul 5, 2018
    I may have posted this before, but this seems like a money grab from MLS being paid by the non-MLS clubs. (Assuming there is a cost for the non-mls clubs as I have also heard it may be free).

    the non pro clubs will be second class citizens in this league. Not sure why they wouldn't' join ECNL instead.

    "Hi welcome to Delta House, have you met jugdish and his friends? Have a seat with them over here on the couch"
     
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  12. jeff_adams

    jeff_adams Member+

    Dec 16, 1999
    Monterey, Ca
    Is Crossfire from Washington not involved in MLS league?
     
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  13. focusondev

    focusondev Member

    Barcelona
    United States
    Nov 15, 2019
    https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2020/05/13/mls-elite-youth-development-platform
    Before we come down hard on this announcement I think we should wait until all the details are released and see how they play out. I am interested in seeing whether they practice what they preach. A couple of key points:

    1. "The platform will operate with a groundbreaking governance structure that promotes collaboration, innovation and input across all areas of the soccer landscape. Within the structure, technical working groups will provide recommendations on the platform’s strategic objectives and standards, outline competition guidelines and formats, as well as introduce platform programming." --- This will address those clubs who complained that they were not heard under the old regime.

    2. "With a focus on maximizing each player’s potential, the new development platform will not only provide high-level, year-round competition for players, but will provide important programming, education and innovation in the key areas of player development: Player Identification, Coaching, Environment, Personal Growth, Community Outreach" --- chalk this up to making sure you say all the right things until you iron out the detail.

    I believe if MLS want to lead this effort they need to put their money where their mouth is and invest in at the very least the 14, 15 16 (coming soon I hope), and 17 age groups. Those MLS programs that have a USL team could forego the U19 age group and those that do not, should have the U19s. I personally don't have any problem having the younger age groups stay closer to home and play at a local club, with good coaching.
     
  14. bpet15

    bpet15 Member+

    Oct 4, 2016
     
  15. Runhard

    Runhard Member+

    Barcelona
    United States
    Jul 5, 2018
    Talking to some parents of non MLS DA teams that will be playing they don't think the grouping will be as indicated. They anticipate they will be playing MLS DA clubs.
     
  16. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    I don’t like the idea of not mandating a U-19 team. There’s no getting around that some good players that aren’t signed to contracts with that MLS team by 16/17 will be without a team to play for. What if a player wanted to play in Europe and was waiting until age 18? It’s inconvenient for something like what Jonathan Gomez did in moving to Kentucky because of how FCD acted towards him and his family.

    There will likely be some cost cutting teams (likely Chicago, Portland, New England) that choose not to have U-19 teams, and all their U-18 and U-19 prospects who aren’t pros already will have to find a new team to play for. Players don’t attend college either after their U-17 season, so some kids will definitely have to go elsewhere for a year or more before they get to college soccer, if some teams don’t have U-19 teams.

    Stejskal says this will be done to save travel costs because MLS teams demanded their own division. These teams are very elitist. They want a closed off system at the expense of developing as many good players as possible, and some of their member clubs aren’t even better than the non-MLS academies. How about they hold their own accountable before they start getting rid of places to play for many of the best U-18/U-19 players in the country?

    I think not having U-13 and U-14 teams is less of an issue. The level of play before U-15 is too low for it to matter that much, but I also think it should still be mandated because there’s no getting around that MLS clubs have better facilities, provide more exposure and better coaching for players that age. I also think it will be hard to build a competitive U-15 team without a U-14 team, but I could be wrong about that.
     
  17. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    This will still not suffice IMO. The level of USL is too high for many kids that are U-18 or U-19 and still aren’t in college. USL is not a level to be playing players who you don’t expect to sign prior to them playing college soccer. If a club like FC Dallas didn’t have a U-19 team, they’d have probably 4-5 players per age group who would not be good enough for USL (it’s less of an issue for them in USL League One, but this is purely hypothetical), but could be good enough for their first team after four years or less of college. What happens to those players? Will MLS clubs keep their rights if they play elsewhere for a U-18 and U-19 season?

    This would be a lot less of an issue if they made the U-17 division a U-18 division and the U-15 division a U-16 division.
     
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  18. jeff_adams

    jeff_adams Member+

    Dec 16, 1999
    Monterey, Ca
    I recall that the DA did something like this for girl’s soccer. It lined up better for them to play until college.
     
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  19. Peter Bonetti

    Peter Bonetti Member+

    Jan 1, 2005
    1970 WC Quarterfinal
    I’ve said it before. The future of our academy system is with USL. MLS will eventually just tack on to the USL system. What MLS are doing now will get old very, very fast. When youth soccer clubs realize that the time and expense isn’t worth being allowed to be second class participant, they will start backing out in droves.

    What we are now seeing is the process of separation between youth soccer clubs and the academy system. The first step is to try to crowbar the old approach into working by making adjustments. Right on cue, MLS.
     
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  20. David Kerr

    David Kerr Member+

    United States
    Oct 18, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The MLS clubs are trying to form their own u23 league and potentially break away from the USL. They don’t think the USL provides a high enough level for their star potential players who aren’t physically ready for the MLS
     
  21. Peter Bonetti

    Peter Bonetti Member+

    Jan 1, 2005
    1970 WC Quarterfinal
    #1196 Peter Bonetti, May 14, 2020
    Last edited: May 14, 2020
    I agree,but turning to youth clubs is not the answer. It didn’t work for them before and it won’t work this time. The youth clubs have a different set of interests. I thought MLS did a good job, in some cases, of pushing young kids into USL games. Where MLS struggles mightily at the moment is in integrating young players into MLS games when it is time. There are a few clubs that do it, but we have too many clubs run by guys like Ben Olsen who have trouble understanding the player development part of coaching in the pros - when your league has less money or stability than other leagues, player development has to be a part of your job or you are operating below your potential.

    That said, USL has to get much, much better at player development also. What is exciting to me is that they are finally getting it. They have a long, long way to go, but they finally realize that player development is a huge part of their future.

    We need to stop expecting for clubs that stop coaching players when they are eighteen to be good at player development. That is not what they are systematically held accountable for.
     
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  22. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don’t know what to take from the new academy system. On the surface, I cannot tell much how it’s so different than DA. Other than there’s a lot of areas in the country left out.

    Personally, I advocate for every MLS club and every USLC and USL1 (maybe USL2) form their own academy system, and the teams play in a regional system; due to the fact, we can’t have kids from Florida traveling to California on the regular.

    Example:
    Southeast Division:
    -Area: Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina, Tennessee, Alabama

    1. Atlanta United
    2. Orlando City SC
    3. Inter Miami
    4. Nashville SC
    5. Charlotte MLS
    6. Charleston Battery
    7. Tampa Bay Rowdies
    8. Birmingham Legion FC
    9. North Carolina (Raleigh) FC
    10. Greenville Triumph SC
    11. South Georgia Tormenta
    12. Chattanooga Red Wolves
    13. Memphis 901 SC
    14. Charlotte Independence
    15. Miami FC
    16. Chargers SC
    17. Florida Rush SC
    18. IMG Academy
    19. Jacksonville FC
    20. Miami Rush Kendall SC
    21. South Florida Football Academy
    22. West Florida Flames
    23. Weston FC
    24. Lanier Soccer Academy
    25. Southern Soccer Academy

    Note: Eventually, a 1st and 2nd Division could form if there are too many teams in an academy.

    Note: the idea is to have something similar throughout the country, but the furthest commute shouldn’t be longer than Florida to NC, and I might argue even that may need to get split up.

    Ideally, it goes without saying, every MLS team should be mandated to have youth academy at every level in their designated metro area. I’d argue too that they be allowed to set up satellite facilities outside of their metro area. For example, Atlanta United might see that there’s a hole in Huntsville, AL (or wherever), and decide to set up shop there. They should be encouraged to do so.

    Also, USSF should help support these USL teams and making it part of their requirement too to form an academy at every level.

    Ultimately, the country is too big, the population is too spread out, and just focusing in on a few hot spots in the country, definitely does not help the development of the American player across the country.
     
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  23. CoachP365

    CoachP365 Member+

    Money Grab FC
    Apr 26, 2012
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  24. Peter Bonetti

    Peter Bonetti Member+

    Jan 1, 2005
    1970 WC Quarterfinal
    Right now it isn’t the thing to do for a league 2 team to form an academy or affiliate with a youth club to run it’s academy, but it will be within the next five years. Once that momentum starts, all of a sudden they will have the ability to form regional leagues like you described above. Although the level of some of the teams will be, err...challenged at first, the fact that the academy system is affiliated with a professional league will make it very doable to raise both the standard of play and the standards by which the academies are run.

    There is a long, long way to go here, but I am very excited to see them start to see their own potential. USL get it and they are acting on it.

    MLS will eventually tack onto USL’s academy while keeping their own separate identity so as to do things with each other, Liga MX, etc.

    Grouping themselves with youth clubs only works from a recruiting standpoint. From every other perspective, MLS will come up short with their current setup.
     
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  25. David Kerr

    David Kerr Member+

    United States
    Oct 18, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

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