Youth Yanks Abroad, ‘97-‘00 YOBs: 2019/20 Thread

Discussion in 'Youth National Teams' started by TheFalseNine, Jul 20, 2019.

  1. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    The way he said it though, made you think he was saying something controversial. Not just taking the easy way out by naming his homie. On another question, Servania is suggested as a cop out answer and he specifically disregards the suggestion and names someone else.

    Tab has had problems with the #6 position. in 2017 he played an elite #6 at the #8 and left another off the roster entirely and played Zelalem there. He consistently played Mendez and Pomykal in the wrong spots. Love the guy, but setting up a midfield is not his forte and Richards pointed it out.
     
  2. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Where did you want him to play Mendez and Pomykal? I remember Pax getting half his minutes at left wing and Mendez as one of the two hybrid 8/10's.
     
  3. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    Is he qualified to coach the team? Until he is, he's like any other person having an opinion that doesn't matter.

    I think one problem we often see is that people overreact to what they see in one short tournament. We had people saying for nearly two years that Gloster wasn't any good because his worst performances of his U-17 cycle came in the U-17 World Cup. The competition wasn't any better, but he had a few bad games. All of a sudden, he became great because he had a good U-20 World Cup. There are too many overreactions to these short tournaments.

    I don't see what makes those players clearly better than Durkin. You can argue back and forth, but he's certainly in contention. I'd argue he's the best and most established of all the U-20 #6's from last cycle.
     
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  4. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    Definitely yes. That'd be better than the situation for the Belgian player pool, and they produce very good players.
     
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  5. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    I thought Pomykal was the better box to box defender and Mendez was the better passer with the superior vision and long range shot. It would be natural to think of Pax as an 8 and Mendez as a 10. But, against Ecuador and in prior games, Mendez was the 8 and Pax was the 10 (further ahead of Mendez). The first Ecuador goal is Mendez running after the player for 60 yards while Durkin gets in position to cut off a pass to nobody. If either of those two players is Servania or Pomykal, that goal doesn't happen.
     
  6. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    Whether he was qualified to coach the team, he was the on field leader of the defense. He played and praticed behind Servania and Durkin. I would take his opinion as more than any old opinion.

    Even if it is not a indictment of their careers or potentials. But on that day, versus Ecuador, Servania should have started. Does Durkin's career get ruined if he doesn't start and look bad?

    The team just beat France, most expected Ramos to keep what worked. Nobody would have thought it was a giant knock on Durkin. But what does that really matter? Durkin came back to MLS and barely played and didn't play well. He then went to Belgium and barely played. He was in a low spot and he has worked himself out, a year later.

    Development is not linear and players come in and out of form. It was a mistake to play Durkin, Ramos probably would admit as much now.

    The U17 ages are very different than the U20 ages. U17 players are by nature more inconsistent. Durkin was a pro player and 19, not an academy kid and 16.

    I think Sands is more established at this point.
     
  7. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    I would not take his opinion as more important than the average opinion. What makes his opinion more valuable than your opinion or my opinion? Has he played that much with Durkin? He's friends with Servania. I suspect I've seen Durkin play a lot more soccer than he has.

    I don't think there needs to be a discussion about the U-20 World Cup. That event was a year ago. I'm talking about your claim about how he compares to the other #6's in his age group now. I don't see what makes those players you named clearly better, and I certainly don't think it's because of a youth tournament a year ago. It factors into an evaluation of Durkin, but it should not be the basis for saying Durkin isn't as good as those other options.
     
  8. Dave Marino-Nachison

    Jun 9, 1999
    The subtext here is that, at the U20 level at least, we are at or near a point where current form can/should really matter in making important YNT roster choices, along with other factors, because enough of the important players actually have pro careers you can point to and compare. That's probably a good thing! And it's kind of a new, or at least developing, thing!

    Of course, "form" can be just as subjective as stuff like "potential." And there's still stuff like positional need, roster mix, coach's preferred formation, etc., to consider.

    But it's still better than "Well, we've already invested heavily in the guy, so..."
     
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  9. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    Ok.

    The discussion was about the U23s though. Do you put Durkin ahead of Yuiell, Sands, Parks, and all the other U23 eligible DMs? If Durkin was still at DC, would your opinion be different? Does the fact he has moved to St. Truiden really weigh heavily? I don't think breaking into the starting lineup of St. Truiden is any more difficult that DC United. I would say though that Ben Olsen has never proven any ability to spot and develop talent unless I'm forgetting someone. He doesn't get results and his teams don't even play that well. So, if you want to argue the coach in Belgium is possibly more adept, I would believe that haha.

    My answers were no, maybe, no.

    I still disagree that Richards's opinion is not at least a little more informed than Joe on the street.
     
  10. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    1258392840431964161 is not a valid tweet id
     
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  11. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    I don't rate Yueill's game, and don't think he's a defensive midfielder. He's a #8, as is Parks and Servania. I like his game slightly more than Sands. Who are the great options available in defensive midfield? I don't see them. Who did you want to play ahead of him for the U-20's? Cerrillo didn't belong on that team, and Servania isn't a #6.

    Is he better than McKennie and Adams right now? No, but those guys won't be playing with the U-23's, and I'm not sure they pair well either, so it might be better to use one at a different position, if we did have both of them on the team.

    I don't think Durkin has done anything overly impressive by playing in Belgium, but I also don't see how what he has done is anything to be critical about. He's moving up the club ladder. He's now in Europe, and hopefully he can generate some interest from the top leagues after establishing himself more in Belgium. I don't care if his current club (I couldn't even tell you the name of the team without looking for it) is better than DC United. I know that he has a better chance to eventually be a regular in a top league by playing for that team than DC United this season, so I think it's a big victory for Durkin's ability to improve and be a NT player to complete this transfer.
     
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  12. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

    Feb 13, 2001
    Yes.

    Given the level of player the Belgian leagues have produced and the way the Belgian NT has been of late, I think that's a worthwhile risk.
     
  13. David Kerr

    David Kerr Member+

    United States
    Oct 18, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Belgian league isn't solely responsible for the players they have now. A lot moved to other countries as youth players.
     
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  14. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

    Feb 13, 2001
    It's still a dice roll I'd be willing to make.
     
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  15. Duncan Edwards i miss u

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Mark my word! Durkin won't go to Olympic because his team won't release him.
     
  16. David Kerr

    David Kerr Member+

    United States
    Oct 18, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Durkin is good enough for the Olympic qualifying team. Is Durkin better than Hassani Dotson? yes.

    Is Durkin good enough for the full Olympic team? No, the Olympic team will likely only have 5 midfielders and those guys will likely be Adams (6), McKennie(backup 6/starting 8), Pomykal (backup 8), Ledezma (starting 10), and Aaronson/Mendez (backup 10).
     
  17. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I'm not sure I truly understand the premise, but I wouldn't trade my Pulisic, Adams, McKennie, Dests for a slew of Durkins.

    I'd rather take talent level that has a few players grade out at a higher potential than 20 year old starter in a mid-tier Belgium team implies rather than lock in a bunch of ... okay.

    We don't go anywhere with a team of 11 Chris Durkins, IMO.
     
  18. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Are we sure?

    I don't think we get all those guys, but the point stands. I don't think Durkin has more than 10 caps at most for the USMNT.

    Even excepting Adams and McKennie -- both of whom were Bundesliga starters at 20 ... are people even taking the Belgian 20-year old starter over the 20 year old Jong PSV, the FC Dallas, the Philly starter or even the Jong Ajax starter?

    I think it's great that Durkin is getting a chance to shine, but I don't really know I'm that much more impressed by him than 18 year old Tanner Tessman or 19? year old Cole Bassett at this point.
     
  19. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    1258779841643585537 is not a valid tweet id
     
  20. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    This is a total nonsequitor.

    The question appears to be which league is better at taking talented teenagers and developing them into Big 4 players.

    I don’t think there’s much doubt that Belgium is far better than MLS in that.
     
  21. butters59

    butters59 Member+

    Feb 22, 2013
    Durkin isn't one of them.
     
  22. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    which is entirely beside the point.

    it’s going to snow in NY tonight - doesn’t mean that climate change isn’t happening.....
     
  23. no exit

    no exit Member+

    DC United
    United States
    Nov 20, 2019
    Saying Durkin is more impressive than Dotson seems besides the point -- the only reason you'd want to make it a conversation is the somewhat-artificial constraints of roster construction for qualifying. Putting him in context of all the u23 CMs, you'd have to say he's second or third tier.
     
  24. butters59

    butters59 Member+

    Feb 22, 2013
    What's the point? Is Durkin good enough for mid level MLS team? Sure, why not, there are plenty of guys of that level. Is he better than Servania, Dotson, Sands, Tessman, Bassett, etc? Who knows. Some of them have higher ceilings.
     
  25. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    The point wasn’t about Durkin at all but rather which league is better at developing talent.
     
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