Meet the New USSF CEO, WIll Wilson

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by manfromgallifrey91, Mar 23, 2020.

  1. MPNumber9

    MPNumber9 Member+

    Oct 10, 2010
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This seems hard for you. Which starters did Bruce Arena replace with inferior MLS players due to bias? That was the claim. I think we all agree that Alfredo Morales, injured John Brooks and Weston McKennie were not USMNT starters at that time, so why bring them up? It's a sign of a weak argument to even bring them up.

    And for the record, Johnson, Morales, Chandler and Alvarado were in the roster that crashed out of the Gold Cup with home losses to Jamaica and Panama. Cameron started in the loss to Guatemala. They each showed they were not above rolling over for lesser CONCACAF opponents.

    Re: your long post of quotes, again: what do you think this is evidence of? Who are the players that Garber and Paulson successfully manipulated into the national team? Or, is your idea that Merritt Paulson gives a shit if Benny Feilhaber sits on the bench in Trinidad&Tobago?[/QUOTE]
     
  2. MPNumber9

    MPNumber9 Member+

    Oct 10, 2010
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The hilarious part is Omar is supposedly an Arena Guy (so much so that he's being considered an "MLS" player for this exercise) although Jurgen started Omar in both opening matches of the Hex, the final two matches of his USMNT coaching tenure against the toughest opponents in CONCACAF. He also took Omar to the World Cup, of course. Omar was Jurgen's guy.

    Arena sold Omar from the Galaxy and upgraded him with a Belgian CB almost 2 years prior to becoming his NT coach.
     
  3. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    Math must not be your forte or required for your profession.

    Neither is logic - when did the lines get redrawn to specific starters being replaced?

    I'll repeat what I've consistently said: Arena said that he thought the USMNT should be primarily MLS and slagged dual nationals like Jermaine Jones as not American. He followed his words with actions: When he became coach, the lineup and roster went from 40% MLS to 65% MLS consistently. We crashed out of the Hex.
     
  4. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    Jones, Johnson, and Cameron were available, instead we got Nagbe, Villafana, and Gonzo.

    The difference between these two sets of players is enormous. All three that played had hands in goals conceded and offered nothing going forward. Villafana applied no pressure on the cross Gonzo shanked into the net. Gonzo lucked out when he should have been called for PK. Nagbe showed less interest tracking back on the second goal than he apparently has for playing for the team. People celebrated him declining a call up under Klinsmann, but was at the heart of our midfield problems and the fact the whole thing is just a nuisance to him.

    I think those other players were brought up because there were a bunch of players who could have been considered and helpful but instead were ignored to win a useless gold cup with an MLS heavy team. Joe Corona and Lichaj were the the only two of 29 that had no connection to MLS for the gold cup. Also, didnt Bruce say something to the effect that he should have just stuck with that squad?
     
  5. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    What is the long post of quotes evidence of? That MLS clearly cares about its representation on the USMNT, which is directly opposite of your argument. The head of MLS made this point clear as day unless you love MLS so much that you can't bear the fact that what Klinnsman said is true but sent Garber off the deep end: it's not as good as the top leagues in Europe and we should expect that our best players play at a higher level and not at your beloved LAGalaxy.

    Here's a suggestion: maybe you should start rooting for Mexico as Landon suggested after Arena/Klinnsman coached us to missing the World Cup: they may have two starters for their national team (Chicharito and dos Santos) and we likely won't have any as MLS doesn't care about the USMNT.

    LOL
     
  6. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    Yes, Cameron's injury and Alvarado not being ready really caused problems for the team. Relying on Gonzo for those two games was one of his dumbest personnel decisions.

    Gonzo wasnt Juergens guy, he was who he was stuck with and couldnt find a replacement. If you go back to the 2015, it was clear JK was looking for replacements for Besler and Gonzo. MLS fans were irate that Alvarado was playing, but even with all his mistakes, Gonzo wasn't any better. Of course the argument was that he "was the best defender in MLS". In 2016, Brooks and Cameron were the first choice pairing that showed well in the Copa.
     
  7. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, I don't think Merritt Paulson, the Timbers owner, has much interest in HIS players representing the USMNT, given the makeup of Timbers rosters (and their nearly complete failure to bring in players from the academy) for at least the last several years.
     
  8. MPNumber9

    MPNumber9 Member+

    Oct 10, 2010
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I never did. In general, I'm not arguing Arena did a good job; he didn't obviously. But his team also wasn't didn't perform materially worse than the one it replaced, as alleged.

    Wrong. Zusi was not only an upgrade over Chandler (one of the poorest rated players in both losses he played in) he was one of the best players on the night against Costa Rica. Chandler being a good NT player is pure speculation at this point.

    Wrong. Johnson and Cameron (and Howard) had individual errors leading directly to goals. They were among the poorest-rated players for that match. Alitdore, Zusi and Nagbe all created chances for Pulisic; Fabian Johnson playing AM didn't create a single chance and got out-muscled on a 50/50 leading directly to the first goal.

    For one, Cameron absolutely was poor against CR. Even he said that himself. It's no secret that Geoff and Arena had antipathy for one another, so I'm not surprised Geoff got a shorter leash for his bad performances. Would Arena have felt he could trust Geoff more than Omar at that point in the Hex?

    Again, I'm not justifying Arena's decisions: he obviously got it wrong. The burden is on you (and DHC1) to prove that Arena set out to cut select players based because he was hired by MLS explicitly to do so. You're both having a hard time proving this for a few reasons

    1) There are rational reasons to explain why certain players weren't brought / started

    2) The players chosen as alternatives didn't perform worse than the players they replaced

    3) The players chosen as alternatives weren't MLS players, rendering the point moot

    Jones was a locker room problem wherever he went, which is why he didn't stay long anywhere despite being a very good MLS player. It's a shame, because I have a ton of respect for him and would like to have seen him become an MLS great. But he hurt himself a lot, frankly. Could have factored into Arena's decision, as he was dealing with a delicate locker room.Either way, how does it help your argument, since Jones was an MLS player and the agenda would've been to get him into the team no matter what?

    Sure; and I would argue MLS would take credit regardless of whether they had actually players on those rosters or not.
     
  9. MPNumber9

    MPNumber9 Member+

    Oct 10, 2010
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Jurgen increased the % of foreign-born duals more than Arena increased the % of MLS players. Why do you think either number is meaningful?

    You alleged Arena brought in players that made the team worse resulting in failure to qualify. Then you talked about players that didn't play any matches. Want to explain how players that don't play matches make the team worse?

    So is it about dual nationals or MLS? Argument changing again.
     
  10. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    1. When did you show the numbers of foreign born nationals before and after Jurgen? Show your work and then we can discuss. As you previously mentioned, former coaches brought in Jones and other dual national candidates and enjoyed significant success. Which coach ignored MLS equivalent or better dual nationals?

    2. What i said is that Arena played more MLS players as I've shown in post after post yet somehow you ignore the data. How does moving from 40% to 67% representation not compute with you? Seriously, I don't understand how a high school attendee couldn't figure it out.
     
  11. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The only post from you I recall that laid out specific players to attach a percentage to was the single roster from the T&T game, and the Klinsmann Hex game against Mexico. Two single games can't be where you draw your math from. Did Klinsmann choose fewer MLSers against Mexico than usual? Did Arena choose more against T&T than usual? I'm seriously interested to know if the two games you picked are actually close representations to the rest of the rosters each coach chose. If anyone is capable of doing that, perhaps it should be for all games for one year (Arena's tenure, and also keeps it recent enough to see trends at the end of Klinsmann's tenure with the same pool of players). I don't know how to do that, otherwise I would (unless it was going to take me many hours).
     
  12. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    World Cup 2014 (under Klinsmann)
    Tim Howard non 1
    DaMarcus Beasley non 2
    Fabian Johnson non 3
    Geoff Cameron non 4
    Alejandro Bedoya non 5

    Jermaine Jones non 6
    Timothy Chandler non 7
    John Anthony Brooks non 8
    Julian Green non 9
    Mix Diskerud non 10
    Aron Jóhannsson non 11
    Brad Guzan non 12
    Nick Rimando non 13

    Matt Besler MLS 1

    Graham Zusi MLS 2
    Kyle Beckerman MLS 3
    Michael Bradley MLS 4
    Clint Dempsey MLS 5
    DeAndre Yedlin MLS 6
    Omar González MLS 7
    Chris Wondolowski MLS 8

    Brad Davis MLS 9

    9/23 (39%) of the World Cup roster from MLS. 2 of the 9 were poached from major league clubs at crazy money (which really lit the fire on Klinnsman vs. Garber) but even including them, it's a long way off from the 2/3 number that Arena used.

    2010 World Cup under Bradley
    1. Altidore, Jozy, Villareal (Spain) non 1
    2. Beasley, DaMarcus, Rangers (Scotland) non 2
    3. Bocanegra, Carlos, Rennes (France) non 3
    4. Bornstein, Jonathan, Chivas USA MLS 1
    5. Bradley, Michael, Borussia Mönchengladbach (Germany) non 4
    6. Buddle, Edson, Los Angeles Galaxy MLS 2
    7. Cherundolo, Steve, Hannover 96 (Germany) non 5
    8. Clark, Ricardo, Eintracht Frankfurt (Germany) non 6
    9. DeMerit, Jay, Watford (England) non 7
    10. Dempsey, Clint, Fulham (England) non 8
    11. Donovan, Landon, Los Angeles Galaxy MLS 3
    12. Edu, Maurice, Rangers (Scotland) non 9
    13. Feilhaber, Benny, AGF Aarhus (Denmark) non 10
    14. Findley, Robbie, Real Salt Lake MLS 4
    15. Gomez, Herculez, Pachuca F.C. (Mexico) non 11
    16. Goodson, Clarence, IK Start (Norway) non 12
    17. Guzan, Brad, Aston Villa (England) non 13
    18. Hahnemann, Marcus, Wolverhampton Wanderers (England) non 14
    19. Holden, Stuart, Bolton Wanderers (England) non 15
    20. Howard, Tim, Everton (England) non 16
    21. Onyewu, Oguchi, AC Milan (Italy) non 17
    22. Spector, Jonathan, West Ham United (England) non 18
    23. Torres, Jose, Pachuca (Mexico) non 19

    4/23 (17%) of the roster from MLS.

    Sarachan's roster vs. Brazil and Mexico
    12/24 (50%) from MLS
     
  13. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Nick Rimando played his entire pro career in MLS.....
     
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  14. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    My bad!
     
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  15. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    Wow! You have really out done yourself with this post. It is going to take time and many responses to fully respond.... though not sure it is worth the effort since much of this is so ridiculous.

    I will start with the easiest part...

    You didnt quote the blue part.

    How do you explain this?
     
  16. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    See post 237 and here's the USSF summary of bruce's roster for the 2017 Gold Cup:

    ROSTER NOTES
    • A majority of the roster comes from Major League Soccer, with 16 players representing 11 clubs.
    • Seven players come from clubs outside of M.L.S., with four from Mexico, two from England and one from Belgium.
    so 16/23 players (or 70%) from MLS.

    Hopefully, this give you a pretty clear picture of the dramatic change that Arena instituted (and Berhalter continued). if this doesn't make one acknowledge that Arena had a serious bias, it's approaching climate change denial territory.

    TLDR: Arena stated what he thought an American coach should do (favor MLS) and then OBVIOUSLY instituted it when he became coach. Then we crashed out of the Hex.
     
  17. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ghana
    Did you expect the search to leave the parking lot?
     
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  18. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    I dont recall much of Zusi against Costa Rica. Even if he was one of the best players, that isnt much of an endorsement given how poorly the team played. However, it isnt hard to remember the Honduras match. I recalled Honduras targeting our outside back and Zusi not being up to the challenge. Luckily, they make highlight tapes. They dont capture everything, but zusi was quite prominent from the 20th to 30th minute (0:50 to 2:30 of video below). I cant think of any defender for the USMNT getting that many times in a span of 10 minutes. Gonzo's poor tackling may hid for some that ist was Zusi's man again. What are your thoughts on his play during that stretch?

    Can you point to the mistakes chandler made that make clear Zusi was an upgrade? Chandler was playing quite well earlier this year in a more attack minded role.

    Of course, he got yanked around the 60th minute and the defense settled down. Who was his replacement? Cameron!

     
  19. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    Johnson didnt play AM. He was deployed as a left midfielder opposite of Pulisic.

    Boy, you can really judge players harshly when you want to. The video footage isnt great, but Johnson's "individual error" was not winning a header that he didnt have good position on in Coata Rica's half. Blaming FJ for that goal is absolutely absurd.

    Howard got beat from a tough angle and on a break away. He probably should have done better but hard to call an error.

    Cameron obviously played an unnecessary ball that they punished. No idea what he was thinking, but I was in the stadium and irate about the lack of urgency that Bradley and Nagbe were showing to move the ball forward. It isnt an excuse but may explain why he felt he needed to force the bal.
     
  20. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    Can you provide proof of this or this just another slanderous statement that you made up?

    My understanding was that his NE teammates loved him. Maybe you can provide some concrete details that things changed in 2015? He got suspended dor altercation with a horrible referee, but that isnt a "locker room problem". Maybe you meant to attack his character in another way???

    http://www.americansoccernow.com/articles/revolution-players-explain-the-jermaine-jones-magic

    “With Jermaine, you can see what’s occurred on the field since he joined,” said Revolution goalkeeper Bobby Shuttleworth. “The one thing he brings is instant respect and leadership to our locker room. He doesn’t really try so I don’t think he knows how important it’s been for us. But he’s just fit in so perfectly for us. He didn’t come in and try to say he was better than us because of what he’s already done in his career. But I don’t think he had to."

    “He walks into the locker room and everybody knows what he’s accomplished and they also know that if they’re not working hard, he’s gonna say something and nobody wants that,” said Shuttleworth, 27. “But the thing is, he’s got this hard reputation but he is actually the nicest guy.”

    “He’s not a guy that needs to be talking all the time to be heard. Just his presence alone demands respect and brings out the best in the people he’s around,” said rookie Patrick Mullins, 22. “He has a calmness about him that exudes confidence, which is what you want in your locker room.”

    “Jermaine has been everything we expected, on and off the field," said forward Charlie Davies, at 28 a grizzled veteran by the Revs’ 2014 standards. "The record kind of speaks for itself since he joined us. But what’s great off the field, what he brings is an experience, knowing how to communicate to a guy what he should be doing, where he should be on the field. He raises the level of practice, the level of training and the intensity is always high.

    “He’s exactly the type of player we needed with that grit and muscle in midfield,” Nguyen added. “Obviously I saw a lot of him in the World Cup and the national team and I knew what we were going to get with Jermaine, but now you see everything he does for a team.

    “He plugs the gap but gets on the ball and takes pressure off the person on the ball. He can distribute, play short combinations but spread the field as well. He’s big for us to push for the playoffs and a championship.”

    "His first day of training we had this small scrimmage, 9-on-9 between the 18s. One of our stronger players, Dimitry Imbongo, knocks me down," Nguyen recalls. “Then you see Jermaine come in and knock him to ground. No one ever knocks Dimitry down, but Jermaine made it look easy. Imbongo, he’s a beast. He doesn’t get bullied much in training. That was the first time I’d seen someone knock Dimitry off the ball like that.
     
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  21. MPNumber9

    MPNumber9 Member+

    Oct 10, 2010
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There's frankly nothing improper or wrong about the leaders of a domestic league expressing the desire to have a close relationship and a mutual understanding with the national team coach -- you citing these quotes as evidence of something sinister only shows your inability to recognize the kind of antisocial asshole Garber and co were dealing with. Maybe you'll think those businessmen have more credibility now that the board at Hertha have comes to the same conclusions about Klinsmann as a professional.

    The quotes don't prove jack, because the relationship between a league and NT isn't supposed to be adversarial. There's nothing about what those men said that expressed an expectation that the NT coach call up MLS players as a favor to them -- that is an extrapolation you made based on your rather obvious distaste for MLS, not actual evidence. Failing to make good relationships with US soccer establishment was just one more thing Jurgen failed at in his role; contorting his failure into some kind of massive conspiracy narrative is covering for his incompetence.
     
  22. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    It's amazing to me how certain fans just hate German-Americans even if they weren't brought in by Klinsmann and are generally the son of an American soldier. Of course, the public leaders of that xenophobia are Bruce Arena, Abby Wambach and Landon Donovan. Really really shameful.
     
  23. MPNumber9

    MPNumber9 Member+

    Oct 10, 2010
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Alvarado was shit when he was ready; maybe you forgot he was in the squad that crashed out of the Gold Cup?

    Arena started Omar and Geoff together when Brooks wasn't available (such as in the loss to Guatemala) which is exactly what Arena did until Geoff's terrible game against Costa Rica. Either way -- OMAR WASN'T AN MLS PLAYER, so it's moot.
     
  24. MPNumber9

    MPNumber9 Member+

    Oct 10, 2010
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  25. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    #250 DHC1, Apr 9, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2020
    LOL - you are moving the goal posts. You asked what evidence there was that MLS cared about its USMNT representation (can you actually deny that?) and the quotes show that they really really do care. It's kinda sad that you're now twisting it into my alluding that it's sinister.

    I have repeatedly stated that it's not surprising that MLS is pushing for things that are in its favor and it's shown itself to be ruthlessly efficient. The problem is that someone at the USSF needs to push back when their interests aren't aligned and not get run over by Garber (who far too often wears his MLS hat instead of his USSF one).

    you can be mad at Klinsmann for what he said publicly but it's simply true (and was proven so by Bradley) that it's harder to maintain the same level in MLS as you can as a major league player. What is untrue about that, even if it was impolitic? Maybe MLS shouldn't have been surprised that the USMNT coach says something when they bring home players when they are clearly dropping down a level. As a USMNT fan, do you want Pulisic, Adams and Reyna to come to the Galaxy? God no. I would almost expect that the coach express his dismay if any of those went to any teams in MLS/Championship/B2. It would be disastrous for the USMNT.

    Let's be clear - I have no animosity towards MLS - my kids are in an academy and we are frequently attendees. I put MLS around the level of the Championship and B2 and anything I say about MLS, I have and will say about those leagues.

    What I have a problem with is an obvious MLS bias by an old and current coach as there is no way that our pool is 2/3 MLS players - that's simply wrong.

    Here's some facts about MLS participation:

    Bradley 2010 WC: 17%
    Klinsmann 2014 WC: 39%
    Klinsmann Mexico Hex: 36%
    Arena GC: 70%
    Arena TnT Hex: 64%
    Sarachan Mexico/Brazil: 50%
    Berhalter all of 2019: 67%

    Feel free to argue against the math.
     
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