The All-Encompassing Pro/Rel Thread on Soccer in the USA

Discussion in 'Soccer in the USA' started by bigredfutbol, Mar 12, 2016.

  1. That's only because the States sends it's "crap" players in. If they sent their best the USA would smash every team on the pitch.
     
  2. MinuteWaltZ

    MinuteWaltZ Member

    Indy Eleven
    United States
    Apr 19, 2019
    They have sent their best players for the World Baseball Classic, but have only won 1 out of the 4 iterations and finished outside the top 4 twice.

    I know this is a shock, but other countries do actually care about baseball and produce a lot of very good players.
     
  3. The only USAtpo 4 sport I can think of that the Dutch should be able to give the States a run for their money would be basketball, as we have the tallest male population in the world and the 2meter+ guys arenot on the soccer pitches.
    I dunno what those XXtall Dutch are doing, but not playing basketball, which is a pity, as I would love us to spank the USA in their native sport.
     
  4. MinuteWaltZ

    MinuteWaltZ Member

    Indy Eleven
    United States
    Apr 19, 2019
    In basketball, since and including 2000, the US, Argentina, Spain and Yugoslavia/Serbia have won a major international men's tournament (Olympics or Basketball World Cup) with France, Italy, Lithuania, Greece, Turkey, Germany, Russia, New Zealand and Australia finishing top 4 at least once.

    Since and including 2000, the US, Australia have won a major international men's tournament (Olympics or Basketball World Cup) with Russia, Czech Republic, Spain, Belgium, Belarus, Brazil, South Korea, France, China and Serbia finishing top 4 at least once. So on the women's side, very US dominant at the top but more balanced as you go down.
     
  5. MinuteWaltZ

    MinuteWaltZ Member

    Indy Eleven
    United States
    Apr 19, 2019
    There is a bit more to basketball than just height. Case in point there is a Dutch player (born, raised and learned the game in the Netherlands before moving to the US for college) named Matt Haarms currently playing at my alma matter of Purdue University. He is 7'-3" with a long wing span. He is a good defensive player due to his shot blocking ability and high energy output, but while tall, he is not the most muscular, so he can get shoved a bit on the low post and is an average rebounder. Additionally is shooting touch is average and he doesn't have the strength to consistently get good low post positioning on offence, so he is a 10-12 ppg guy and best used as a secondary option on offense. Next year is his senior year, so we'll see if he can make a jump in performance with the extra experience/practice, but right now he's only boarderline for playing in the NBA as a bench/role player in spite of his height and reach.
     
  6. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    One thing many foreign observers don't grasp about American sports is the degree to which school sports fill the space that in other countries is filled by smaller/lower-division clubs.

    Any comparison between soccer vs. basketball or Am. football here that doesn't know/think about college & HS sports is fundamentally flawed.
     
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  7. You're right about that, but that's exactly what I'm pointing at. Those tall 2 meter plus Dutchies arenot playing basketball the way we do soccer. That's why despite their length they miss the attributes necesary to deploy that length advantage to the max. If we had over here an basketball amateur base like we have for soccer, those tallies would be muscular/agile/technical/tactical etc.
    There isnot. That's why those top 4 US sports are a local sport with also run withs abroad. The argument about that whole engrained system in the usa mentioned in the post above by bigredfutbol IS the proof of those being local, as that doesnot exist outside of the States.
     
  8. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    *sigh*. Spain has Basketball academies and is on par with the US in Basketball at the World Level. Real Madrid, Barcelona, etc have basketball teams. The Euro League is very popular around the world as well. Basketball is also hugely popular in China. But hey, keep pushing your bias and ignorant views.
     
  9. These are to the NBA what the mls is towards the epl.
     
  10. Chesco United

    Chesco United Member+

    DC United
    Jun 24, 2001
    Chester County, PA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    The MLS. Okay.
     
  11. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #26436 Elninho, Apr 3, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2020
    So what's with elite soccer players retiring from international play when they're still young, and continuing to play for elite clubs for as long as ten years after their international retirement?

    The World Baseball Classic was created specifically in order to allow the big baseball countries to field their best players, by not conflicting with the MLB and NPB (Nippon Professional Baseball) schedules. It was created after months of negotiations between the IBAF, MLB, and NPB to make sure players would be available. Although the USA has had some players decline to play in the WBC, as a percentage of the squad it isn't more than the number of soccer players who decline international call-ups. 80-90% of the top players have played. The most successful country at the WBC is Japan. It took until the fourth WBC for the USA to win one, and that was in fact the first time the USA had won a medal at all. Seven different countries finished in the top three before the USA did.

    Outside of the US and Canada, baseball is the most popular sport in Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Venezuela, Panama, Nicaragua, Cuba, and the Dominican Republic -- which makes it the most popular sport in countries on three continents. It is the second-most-popular team sport in Mexico. Each of these countries has numerous players in MLB. Baseball is the reason Venezuela has historically been the worst soccer team in CONMEBOL, and the reason Panama and Nicaragua have historically lagged behind their Central American neighbors at soccer (though Panama has improved greatly in the last two decades).
     
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  12. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The pro baseball and soccer leagues in Nicaragua continue to play through COVID-19. The players aren't happy!
     
  13. names?
     
  14. So....what number was that US coach that steered us to the title in the row of US coaches who won the Classic?
     
  15. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
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  16. ThreeApples

    ThreeApples Member+

    Jul 28, 1999
    Smurf Village
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Do you mean the manager of the Dutch team that won the Baseball World Cup in 2011? Looks like it was someone named Brian Farley who is an American who moved to the Dutch baseball leagues in the 1980s after washing out as a player in the US minor leagues and has stayed there ever since as a coach/manager. I'm not sure what you are asking about a "row of US coaches" but he's completely unknown in the US.

    The manager of the Dutch WBC team that finished 4th in both 2013 and 2017 was Hensley Meulens, a Curaçaoan who is a longtime assistant coach in MLB.
     
  17. What I'm asking is how many US coaches won the classic like Farley and numero what washe in that row.
     
  18. Those arenot exactly young and afaik were not selected anymore and thus announced their "retirement"
     
  19. ThreeApples

    ThreeApples Member+

    Jul 28, 1999
    Smurf Village
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't know what "numero what washe in that row" means. There have been four World Baseball Classics won by Japan (twice), the Dominican Republic, and the USA. All four winners were managed by one of their own countrymen, so only one US manager has won that tournament.
     
  20. If 4 US managers won it, he could numero uno, secundo, tertio or quattro.
    Apparently Farley is up till now the only one, so there's no row.
    Probably the USA's lack of titles than comes from sending sub par coaches with the team to the tournement.
     
  21. ThreeApples

    ThreeApples Member+

    Jul 28, 1999
    Smurf Village
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We're talking about two different tournaments. The Netherlands won the Baseball World Cup in 2011. That tournament existed since 1938 and was discontinued after 2011. The US won it four times. Until 1998 the US sent amateurs to the tournament and after that minor league professionals.

    The World Baseball Classic was set up to include the top players. The USA doesn't win it every time because other countries have talent that is just as strong, and single-elimination knockout baseball is very random.
     
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  22. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Zlatan was 34 when he retired in 2016. Shearer retired after being heavily criticized in the media at the 2002 World Cup. Zidane played for France after retiring from club football.
     
  23. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Are you saying that Zlatan couldn't have played at a high level for Sweden still?

    Shearer was 29 when he walked away from the English National Team. Boateng was 24. Gerd Mueller retired from West Germany at 28, & Paul Scholes walked away from the English National team at 29.
     
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  24. A conflict isnot a retirement.
     
  25. Conflict too.
     

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