They finished 6th the one year he was a regular starter there in 2012-13. They finished 2nd and qualified for the Champions League the next season, but he left for Toronto halfway through that season, and he'd kind of lost his spot in the XI at that point anyway after coming back from a nasty WCQ injury. I do think that 2013-14 team was essentially a Champions League knockout round quality team (they got drawn into a tough group with Bayern Munich and Man City, and narrowly missed out on advancing, and then made it to the knockout stage multiple times in the following years with a fairly unchanged midfield from the one that Bradley left of De Rossi, Strootman, and Nainggolan). But of course, due to Bradley's early exit, the jury will remain out on whether he could have won or held on to a starting position on that team.
wasn’t that year vs man city and Bayern after Bradley had left/ been benched? I think it was 14/15 not 13/14. when he was there, they never played UCL and the year they qualified, he wasn’t featured much.
Yeah I might have phrased that confusingly, but I was trying to say that the 2013-14 Roma team that qualified for the 2014-15 Champions League was IMO a CL knockout stage quality side, but again he left halfway through that season. He didn't start much in the half season he was there, again having lost his spot in the lineup after a bad injury, but he did play pretty much every game that he was healthy until the winter transfer.
sounds like we’re agreed on the fact but I think it’s a stretch to say he was at that level as he lost his spot as the team improved. I’ve always been impressed that Bradley maximized his abilities. I've also always thought he didn’t have a high ceiling but his mental makeup made him likelier to achieve it. Unfortunately, that left him particularly susceptible to dropping levels if he got injured as he didn’t have the dynamic athleticism to spare.
I am with you, if I have a team Jones will be in my line up 8 out of 10 times instead of Bradley. But remember, Bradley is the "American Lion"; very tough to get him off of the conversations for best 11.
I think he’s clearly in the mix and admire his service to the USMNT but prefer Jones if we’re trying to win
Bradley has scored at the World Cup, Confed Cup, and three times against Mexico in qualifiers. His place in the conversation is deserved.
Soooo...if another ball is kicked due to Coronavirus, CP is one of the best men to put on a US jersey? On potential / talent, of course he is there. But on accomplishments, he's not on the all-time list, which is not a knock against a dude who's barely the age of a college grad.
Again, it depends on what you are measuring. If your "Best XI" is a lifetime achievement-type award, then no, he's not. But if you're more interested in selecting simply the best players to wear a shirt, I don't think there's much argument he in the group. This gets more interesting as it's ok to choose CP, but then Jermaine Jones slots in for MB (even though I would have MB, adding in a bit of "value" for his longevity). This argument is like those "what does MVP mean!?!?!" arguments in other sports. Is it the best player of the year (Trout most years in MLB) or is it the player that has lifted his team the most? Not always the same.
I guess we don't know Beasley's criteria exactly. Maybe he was just naming the most talented guys he's played with or something. For me, club career has jack to do with naming the all-time best players for the USMNT (which is a different activity from naming the best American soccer players). Jones has one the best club pedigree of any USMNT player to-date. Reyna's enjoying a little revival due to his son, but to say he "dominates both tests" is probably overstating things (IMO, anyway). If Reyna had been as consistent as Donovan, Dempsey or even Bradley for club and country, he'd be remembered much more fondly even though some do underrate what he did do very well. This is why I say he had high peaks but not consistent performance over time. His 2002 WC performance is truly elite--then again he also has 2006. I would say Dempsey, Bradley, Jones and probably others had longer and more consistent careers in Europe as well. Not to take away from it, because again, he has very good individual performances that were lauded, but Reyna did not consistently perform for a very different vintage of Manchester City (at the time Reyna was there, Joey Barton also made 100+ appearances, to give you an idea of how different that club was from the one it is today).
But -- how do you determine "best" without comparing accomplishments? Achievement is the combination of skill and effective effort. Does CP have a NT performance to-date that would rate in, say, the top 10 individual performances of all time? (You could argue he already does for club)
Whenever I am picking a best XI I like to think of it playground style as in, do I want to have to play against him? What's the line? 35 is a decent number of caps in my mind, would 50 do it for you?
Dunno about that, but he's the most talented player we have ever produced. He nearly carried that '17 group of has beens to the WC by himself. That Hex by itself is one of the best 11 hexs ever. Barry sanders is often considered the best rb in nfl history. But he doesn't have the rushing record, and retired very young. Doesn't matter. Agree w 50 here. Maybe if he had 12 caps, it's too early. He has 34, 14 goals, no idea the assists (but a lot). That's enough. If you limit it to 75 or 100 caps, u basically have 11 guys who played the most, so cool I guess.
we can agree to disagree but reyna’s USMNT and club career are far in excess of Michael Bradley. He was called captain America for a reason and was justifiably captain of the 2002 team (and played and led like it too). for club careers, it’s not even close between the two either.
For me, it's not necessarily a given number of caps, but accomplishments. Pulisic hasn't even played in a World Cup or scored against Mexico. I think if he'd succeeded you'd have a good argument.
I can see it both ways. OTHOH, I really wish that 17 team had a better manager. They get killed for a terrible result but would have been nowhere near the position with a good manager.
That's a lame take. I'm sure Jozy is as courageous as anyone not named McBride. Jozy's shortcomings as a 9 were/are not for lack of courage. He has terrible timing on lofted balls, I wonder if he might have poor depth perception. He just can time his jump worth a crap. McBride, otoh, had incredible timing*. I heard it reported that for all his heading prowess, McBride could never dunk. (I don't say that as a diss of McBride, but a compliment to his timing). Whoever that was at Sunderland was stupid to try to play Jozy as a 9. That was not his game (it looks like he's developed a good hold-up game now). He was a fast, nimble dribbler who happened to have good size. His career was diminished by half, by cramming him into the #9 role.
It was not just a 9. It was the lone 9 with little support. Jozy should have gone to a team that tried to play on the deck but I can’t blame him for getting the big money at that age.
I'm not really bagging on the players, including CP. But if he had managed to score or assist against the two tougher teams in the region, the team might well have gone to the WC despite all their other issues and you could literally say he dragged them there, which would be a high-ranking all-time achievement. But he didn't (and I don't think anyone fairly expected him to).
Re: Jozy, he's not good enough with his feet to be that kind of striker at a high level. Jozy has good feet for an American striker, but look at the guys that play that way at a high level and they are much more technical. For me, if I'm going with either an all-time 11 or a "best team on the day" 11, the choice is not necessarily between Jozy and McBride, but Jozy and Dempsey or Donovan. You similarly do not need to choose between Reyna / Bradley / Jones (I wouldn't.) Donovan-Dempsey-Pulisic Reyna Jones Bradley
The difference between a guy playing at the 9 and a 9 can be huge. Look at how much better LAFC look with Diomande or Urena at the 9. Dio is not better than Bryan Rodriguez but the team works better with Vela playing his best spot. Clint and Landon are better players than Jozy but not better at the job. Edit: He’s good enough to play well as a 9 against top competition. He was a key part playing with Landon and Clint in the Confed and 2010.
⚽️ GOAL OF THE DAY: @DaMarcusBeasley v Dundee United pic.twitter.com/lbjKBqH1nb— Rangers Football Club (@RangersFC) May 10, 2020 I don't think I ever saw this one before.
Haven't rewatched the game in years so my memory may be a little shady, but Beasley was awesome in our R16 game against Belgium. He might have been our best player that day to be honest. I'll have to go back and re watch, but I remember being amazed at how well he played, he was excellent. Since we missed out on the WC in Russia, and the older generation of players I grew up on leaving , and lack of big games recently I haven't been following the team as much, but damn do I miss the good old days . I'm 28 at the moment, but I was 15 when I made this account, and as you can see by my username I was a huge Beasley fan. What a career and US MNT legend. The fact that he was able to revitalize his career and be a starter at the World Cup in Brazil, and a good one at that, says all you need to know about him. I was 10 during the 2002 WC in Korea/Japan and I remember catching some of the US games and falling in love with Donovan and Beasley. After the tournament was over, soccer still wasn't huge and I was super young, but fast forward to 2006, I bought the World Cup game for ps2 a few months before the big show and I fell in love with this team again. Was devastated we didn't advance that summer but I was hooked. Following this team from 2006-2018 provided me with some of the best moments/experiences of my fandom/life and Beasley was a big part of that . I don't know if i'll ever get excited again for a team as I did those 2006, 2010, and 2014 World Cup teams. Not to beat a dead horse, but we were robbed of Donovan, Beasley, and Dempsey sharing the same field and having one last run in Brazil. Still hurts me to this day ... Haven't posted in about two years but with the Quarantine going on i've found myself lurking these last couple of days. Thanks for everything Beasley! That ball you played to Dempsey against Ghana was perfection. Still wish his disallowed goal against Italy could have counted too. Thanks for the great memories
In fairness to DMB, I recall the Scottish Premier League being better in the mid-2000s than it is now, and Rangers (pre-administration) and Celtic were the cream of the crop. Rangers made it to the final of the UEFA Cup in 2007-08 (after finishing 3rd in their Champions League group), and after finishing 2nd in the Scottish Premiership during Beasley's first year there, Rangers won the league each of the next 4 years after that.