La Liga Rankings: 1975-93

Discussion in 'Players & Legends' started by msioux75, Sep 4, 2011.

  1. Titanlux

    Titanlux Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Nov 27, 2017
    Here I leave interesting original information from Don Balon about the Spanish league 1976-77 with ideal eleven and average ratings.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
    In this campaign Cruijff rivaled the excellence of his first season, but some journalists (or rather detractors) over the years have tended to overlook or disregard and minimize every campaign after his first.
     
  3. Titanlux

    Titanlux Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Nov 27, 2017
    Exactly, the chronicles and the critics of the sports media show that it was a great season for him. Curiously, it seems that one of his best matches, if not the best, was the one that he played against Athlétic de Bilbao in the return match of the quarterfinals of the UEFA Cup, although it did not do him much good because Barcelona was eliminated from the competition ...
    Against him, his sanction matches for insulting a referee are remembered this season. And it is that Cruyff did not like the referees for his continuous protests ...
     
  4. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
    El Gráfico at the end of the 1983-84 campaign asked Spanish journalists from the most renowned sources to rate the performances of each Argentinian from 1 to 10 that played in their league that season.

    2A3C72B6-4E02-43D1-BDC9-E3A5764EFE2B.jpeg
     
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  5. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    What is the average Don Balon grade for Maradona in 1983-84? @Titanlux?

    I ask because the final ranking doesn't show him because of not playing enough games (interestingly, in terms of results, points per game, this relatively mediocre Barcelona side didn't feel his absence that much - one of the reasons why his GI rating is around the Zidane regions rather than Di Stefano).
     
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  6. Titanlux

    Titanlux Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Nov 27, 2017
    ratings Barcelona.jpg
     
  7. Titanlux

    Titanlux Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Nov 27, 2017
    ranking Don Balon.jpg
     
  8. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    Considering some statistical errors, more and less, this could be the resume:

    La Liga 1992-93:

    5 stars (-)
    4 stars (2) - Djukic, Laudrup
    3 stars (7) - Fran, Zubizarreta, Lopetegui, Bebeto, Guardiola, Mauro S., Zamorano
    2 stars (20) - Paco, Felipe, Michel, J.Guerrero, Ferrer, Buyo, Nando, Otero, Zalazar, Sanchís, Kosecki, Bakero, Hierro, Simeone, Voro, Penev, Nadal, Cristóbal, R.Rocha, Koeman


    PS. I know, this categorization is subjective, but give us some interesting ideas.
     
  9. Titanlux

    Titanlux Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Nov 27, 2017
    Combining the Don Balon ratings and those available from Mundo Deportivo and Marca, I have extrapolated the scores, obtaining the averages attached.

    liga 1.jpg liga 2.jpg liga 3.jpg
     
  10. Titanlux

    Titanlux Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Nov 27, 2017
    I add a possible XI from these ratings. If someone has the averages from other media outlets, they could add them to these.

    XI LIGA.jpg
     
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  11. Titanlux

    Titanlux Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Nov 27, 2017
    Continuing with the 1992-93 league, the newspaper "Marca" surveyed all 1st division players asking them about the best Spanish footballer and the best foreigner. Here I leave the complete results.
     

    Attached Files:

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  12. Titanlux

    Titanlux Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Nov 27, 2017
    They also surveyed fans in general, with Míchel and Laudrup re-voting first.

    mejor liga 6.jpg
     
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  13. Titanlux

    Titanlux Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Nov 27, 2017
    Another survey they did at Marca was to fans of 1st division teams at the end of the season. They were asked to say the top 3 on their team. I put the results of Barcelona, Real Madrid and Deportivo de La Coruña.
     

    Attached Files:

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  14. Titanlux

    Titanlux Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Nov 27, 2017
    Tras esta nueva información, Guardiola y Míchel merecerían entrar en el XI ideal de la liga.

    Podríamos formar un 3-5-2 como le gustaba jugar a Cruyff:

    Lopetegui (Zubizarreta); Ferrer, Djukic (Nadal), Nando; Míchel, Laudrup, Guardiola, Mauro Silva, Fran; Bebeto y Zamorano.
     
  15. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    #315 PuckVanHeel, Apr 7, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2020
    It's interesting that the ratings of well known players as Redondo or Koeman can vary a lot.

    Is there a reason why Koeman is rated relatively low compared to his other seasons? (although with the margin of error applied he might as well be in the top 10 rather than number 20). The one before and the two after for example.

    Compare for example (where he finished 19th, while not receiving votes and points from his own country):
    http://www.rsssf.com/rssbest/rsspoy93.html

    Or:
    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/world-cup-comparisons/ronald-koeman-1990/
    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/world-cup-comparisons/ronald-koeman-1994/
     
  16. Titanlux

    Titanlux Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Nov 27, 2017
    I was quite surprised how Koeman was only considered the 8th best of his team by his own fans. On the other hand, it seems quite evident that El Mundo Deportivo scored somewhat higher than the Barcelona players.
    Redondo had a pretty good season when he was seriously injured. As it is this year, Mundo Deportivo did not indicate the season averages but the accumulated points, I do not know what their average is, as I do not have that information. However, it is curious how Tenerife did not notice its absence too much in relation to the production of points. The Tenerife fans preferred Felipe Miñambres over Redondo, although I remember that in Tenerife, Redondo was an idol.
     
  17. Titanlux

    Titanlux Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Nov 27, 2017
    To complete the information offered on the 1978-79 league, I publish an ordered list of the best averages taking into account the ratings per game of Marca, As and Don Balón and the global average of Mundo Deportivo. In this list I have considered those who were at least qualified in the half + 1 of the league matches (that is, in 18 matches). There is a footballer in particular who did not reach 18 games, but who, until the time of his serious injury, had qualified in 15 games with spectacular ratings. It is fair to name him: Miguel Ángel, goalkeeper of Real Madrid.
    Taking these averages as a reference, a possible ideal XI with several possibilities in many of its positions.

    mejores promedios liga.jpg
     
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  18. Titanlux

    Titanlux Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Nov 27, 2017
    There were other players who were popular or started to become popular from this league. These were some of them.

    otros rankings liga.jpg
     
  19. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Hello Titanlux

    Have you maybe seen in your various archives also some of the older great players lists? From 2000 and before.

    Something as this from Placar in 1999, where they asked Don Balon too (and Voetbal International, SportBild).

    [​IMG]
     
  20. Titanlux

    Titanlux Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Nov 27, 2017
    Hello, if I find the information you are referring to, I will share it with you. Regards.
     
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  21. Titanlux

    Titanlux Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Nov 27, 2017
    Perhaps this cut helps to better interpret the ratings that Mundo Deportivo awarded weekly in league games during the first seasons. This cut comments that performance ratings were carried out in several European countries and that this publication (1967-68) was going to start doing so.
    It also explains that it is based on the France Football system and exposes the qualitative equivalence of the corresponding numerical data. Regarding its equivalence if it had to be weighted on a scale up to 10, it is already a personal matter. I have no doubt that the "3" (acceptable) should not exceed 6 out of 10.
    This can be very useful for those of us trying to match the different ratings.
     
  22. Titanlux

    Titanlux Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Nov 27, 2017
    On the occasion of the 10th anniversary of the Don Balón Ranking, this magazine, in its number 523, published a report on the ideal XI of each year of the decade. I have scanned these pages for those who see this of interest.

    0523 ranking don balon 10 años 01_redimensionar.jpg 0523 ranking don balon 10 años 02_redimensionar.jpg 0523 ranking don balon 10 años 03_redimensionar.jpg 0523 ranking don balon 10 años 04_redimensionar.jpg 0523 ranking don balon 10 años 05_redimensionar.jpg 0523 ranking don balon 10 años 06_redimensionar.jpg 0523 ranking don balon 10 años 07_redimensionar.jpg
     
  23. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
    What I think occurred with that particular 1999 list of various sources, was that at the turn of the millennium, those publications asked its readers to send in their votes of their top choices. For Guerin Sportivo that seemed to be the case, which had listed in their poll some bizarre number 1 choices. That is why I believe I noticed some discrepancies with El Gráfico, who had its jury of correspondents in 1993 choose Maradona over José Moreno as Argentina’s greatest player, with Di Stéfano tied 3rd with Bochini and others, but in 1999 that list had Moreno omitted.

    https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/the-greatest-argentinian-player-of-all-time-1993.2086594/
     
  24. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    I actually don't think that's true mate - I think they are lists submitted by the magazines themselves, at least in the case of Guerio Sportivo that you mention and World Soccer.

    This page shows the top 50 of Adalberto Bortolotti of Guerin Sportivo and it matches the top 10 they voted for in 1999 (although I think he had made a list of a top 10 a few years earlier which had a slightly different order, as shown on your Serie A ratings thread by yourself if I remember correctly)
    http://www.rsssf.com/miscellaneous/best-x-players-of-y.html#gs-50
    The World Soccer voting by readers is referred to there too, and this page also confirms that that poll resulted in a different top 10 to that submitted
    http://www.englandfootballonline.com/TeamHons/HonsWldSocPlyrsCent.html

    What I guess happens, like in that case from Argentina (which is different to the Guerin Sportivo one, where Mr Bortolotti just changed his list very slightly over a few years I suppose, or maybe didn't even refer to his earlier version or recall it exactly) is that the editorial staff change over time a bit (some older ones retiring or even passing on, and some newer ones joining who are more likely quite young) and the method of voting is different (and in itself a vote for best Argentinian player is different to best worldwide player where most top 10s won't be stacked with a majority of Argentine players). That's if it was based on a con sensus among the staff anyway - of course one or two people might have taken care of it like with Guerin or it could be for Argentina like you suggest and the readers decided it. I just thought I should point out that's not how it was for the Italian or British votes. I assumed every magazine had voted themselves too originally when I saw the list of top 10s like that, but that could be wrong about that and maybe using readers votes would be considered legitimate if the magazine preferred to do that.
     
  25. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
    #325 Vegan10, Jun 29, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2020
    You may also be right, mate. What occurred with Guerin Sportivo was that there was a long poll throughout the 1999 year from its readers, who sent in their votes every week, so what was unclear is if Adalberto Bortolloti then published a revised list from his original 1997 top 10 or based it on the votes that were coming in. In any event, Mr Bortolloti had received lots of criticism from the Brazilian press after his 1997 list and it may have altered his new ranking, assuming it was he that created the new top 50.

    In regards to El Gráfico, I never saw the original 1999 source, so I’m unable to reach any conclusions. The only thing I can think was that it was either a poll or a list created by the editorial chief, without involving any correspondents that casted their votes of the top Argentinian players of all time in 1993.

    Edit: Don Balón’s list also seemed like a popularity vote, or the decision from the editor in charge, taking into account it’s a Catalán paper, ranking Cruijff and Maradona ahead of Di Stefano, two former Barcelona players over a Madrid icon.
     
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