2019-2020 UEFA Referee Discussion [Rs]

Discussion in 'Referee' started by MassachusettsRef, Jun 3, 2019.

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  1. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm on my phone so I'll avoid a long thought out response.

    I think you can make a technical argument that this is SPA. But every neutral player, pundit, and fan expects this to be a red because of the nature of the specific offense. Now some of those people expecting red are because they incorrectly think any intentional handball in the area is red. But in the spirit of the laws, the diving extended goalkeeper like save of a shot likely heading towards the corner of the goal screams red. Once a red is given, I don't see it being clearly wrong.
     
  2. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Really curious about the first red card he received all the way back in 2006. It looks like Marcus Merk is the referee!

    I really don't think that slight kick out is a red card anymore in today's game. Some one correct me if I'm wrong.
     
  3. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    "Real Madrid plan to explore every possible avenue available in their bid to ensure that Sergio Ramos will be able to play the return of their Champions League Last 16 against Manchester City. Madrid will lodge an appeal to try and get the red card which Ramos received late in the game for scything Gabriel Jesús down. The City player went down and Italian match official Daniele Orsato sent the Real Madrid captain off. Orsato didn't review the move on VAR even though the move was open to interpretation.

    Real Madrid hope that UEFA will overturn the red card which Sergio Ramos was shown so that Zidane will be able to count on the centre-back when the team attempts to turn the tie around at the Etihad on 17 March. For Eduardo Iturralde González, AS' resident referee and Cadena SER pundit, Ramos should not have been sent off: "For me, it's not a foul, Gabriel Jesus went looking for it and let him fall. If there was no foul in City's first goal, then this isn't a foul either"."

    https://en.as.com/en/2020/02/27/football/1582825662_572483.html
     
  4. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    That's right. Merk also has the honor of being one of two referees to have sent Messi off, and that on Messi's international debut!

     
  5. Good luck with that.
    In 2002 Feyenoord player Brett Emerton received a yellow card in the semi final from the ref for time waisting. Brett had put the ball down for a corner and was about to kick the ball, but was instructed by the linesman to put the ball more on the corner line. He did so, but then the ref gave him the card that costed him the final. Feyenoord protested for this injustice but the UEFA feckers sticked to the suspension, robbing a player from a once in a life time experience. The facts were on tape, yet they refused to set it right.
     
  6. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Talk about not moving on...
     
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  7. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    *sigh* And why doesn't the public understand VAR?
     
  8. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    I'm really OK with the concept that the more cynical the act the less strenuous we should be in the obviousness of the denied goal or DOGSO. I know it is not in Law 12, but as the whole point was not eliminate or reduce cynical professional fouls, it certainly makes sense--and perhaps it now falls a bit under what soccer expects.

    I agree it was not a VAR issue in either direction.
     
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  9. Rufusabc

    Rufusabc Member+

    May 27, 2004
    that’s even longer than me with Collina. :x3::x3::whistling:
     
  10. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If I'm understanding the translation of this tweet correctly, UEFA has decided that Italian referees will temporarily not take part in UEFA competitions.



    It appears other countries have fallen into the same category (Israel is mentioned, I imagine Switzerland also--though, at this point, I don't think there are any Swiss referees with UEFA-level VAR training).

    Anyway, this likely greatly affects UCL and UEL assignments--most especially in the VAR booth.

    Unless I'm missing something, the decision seems rash and an overreaction to me. Italian teams are traveling. Some contingent of Italian fans will travel. Will keeping 4-6 individuals from traveling really make a difference?
     
  11. To keep things going clubs have to play their e-teams!!:D
     
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  12. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Valencia - Atalanta: HATEGAN (ROU) [Gil (POL)]
    Leipzig - Tottenham: DEL CERRO GRANDE (ESP) [Martinez Munuera (ESP)]

    PSG - Dortmund: TAYLOR (ENG) [Attwell (ENG)]
    Liverpool - Atletico Madrid: MAKKELIE (NED) [Kamphuis (NED)]
     
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  13. El Rayo Californiano

    Feb 3, 2014
    Maybe Mateu Lahoz has indicated he'll retire after this summer. He got the Real Madrid-Barcelona match March 1. This Sunday, March 15, he gets the Seville derby (Sevilla-Real Betis). My guess is that he'll also get the Copa del Rey final next month (Real Sociedad-Athletic Bilbao, in effect a Basque derby).
     
  14. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If he's not on the 2022 list, the only goal-driven reason to stay on for 2020-2021 would be the UCL Final if he doesn't get it this year. So, it's possible.

    But it's also possible he's just clearly the best/most trusted referee in Spain right now!
     
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  15. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's Taylor's first UCL knockout match and it's a big one.

    Makkelie, also, obviously with a big one.

    Even Hategan's match... not high-profile, but the idea of Valencia turning around 3 goals at home against a huge underdog is not crazy. I think that will be a very difficult match.

    There's kind of a throwaway match next week, with Bayern up 3 and at home. So that could go to plenty of different referees. The others are all pretty big. Kuipers, Skomina and maybe either Cakir or Brych again?
     
  16. mathguy ref

    mathguy ref Member+

    Nov 15, 2016
    TX
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Its been announced that PSG v Dortmund will be played behind closed doors.
     
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  17. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As will the match in Valencia and--if it proceeds--the match in Turin a week later.

    Looking at the fixtures and where this has now spread, there is a decent chance that all four matches next week will happen without fans.
     
  18. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    That was probably the thinking when Oliver was put on Real Madrid v Juventus in 2018. He will most likely never see Juventus again in his career.
     
  19. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In hindsight it looks that way, perhaps. But I think it's unlikely. That was a leg 2 QF, with only one week between matches. I'm pretty sure UEFA knew that it was using Oliver for leg 2 at minimum. Assignments are released 48 hours ahead of time, but referees and national FAs, I understand, know before then. I just think UEFA was ready to gamble on Oliver on what was a high-profile match.
     
  20. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Maybe, but if the first leg in Turin had finished 1-1 or 2-1, I highly doubt Oliver would have gotten that second leg :)
     
  21. allan_park

    allan_park Member

    May 15, 2000
    A minor clarification - Referees and National FAs are informed, a couple of weeks ahead of time, that a specific Referee crew are being used on a specific Matchday. But they are not told what game they are on until 48-72 hours ahead of time (depending on travel logistics). Often the correct game can be deduced, as we do here, but the specific match notification is not officially issued to anyone until 48-72 hours before the match.
     
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  22. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Despite my poor wording, I actually did know that. What I don't know is when the specific match is decided. Does UEFA know the specific match "a couple weeks ahead of time" or is it decided a couple days before that 48-72 window?

    Taking Oliver as the specific example, he would have known he had a leg 2 UCL QF for a few weeks. At what point did UEFA decide it would be the Real Madrid match?

    Similarly, was the Bayern-Chelsea match appointment decided before or after the result of leg 1?
     
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  23. AremRed

    AremRed Member+

    Sep 23, 2013
    And he got that situation right too, crazy how it goes.
     
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  24. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    I think that's probably on a case by case basis round by round basis and season by season basis. Sometimes they have a plan on which crews to use for which leg as soon as the tie is announced.

    Two seasons ago, they pretty much planned from the beginning of the season that Mazic was going to the UCL Final and kept him out entirely of the knockout stages.

    I don't think there is a set rule.

    Other times they either wait to see how the first leg goes and decide on the second leg or they make changes to the assignments depending on how the first leg went.

    We'll never know the answer, but I'm pretty sure the plan was not for Frank De Bleeckere to referee the second leg of the 2011 semi-final between Real Madrid and Barcelona. I think someone else was set to do that game, but the first leg was such a nightmare that they felt they had to put him on the game.

    I'm pretty sure most of the semifinal crew announcements are made as soon as the ties are set.

    This season it will be a combination of Cakir, Brych, Kuipers and Skomina most likely.
     

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