Official 2020 Nadeshiko Japan Thread [R] - なでしこジャパン（英語スレッド）

Context. Today's pair are other two CB's and they never played with each other.
Miyake (21 caps) is mostly reserve player while Doko is newcomer with 2 caps.

 

I kind of posted without really proof reading. It was asked earlier in this thread if the center backs looked better than the pairing in the earlier match and I should have stated that neither pairing looked better. In fact both pairings looked pretty bad. I "think" that Spain is better than England so I think that makes the two center back pairings pretty much equally bad and neither looks to be able to hold the US under 4 or 5 goals.

 

Perhaps, but I think you may be surpirsied in last game.

 

I have already been surprised. I did not think I would ever see a Japanese center back pairing playing as badly as they have played in the two matches so far. It is like they just were introduced to each other and neither have never played center back before.

 

Japan results under Takakura against current top 10 teams in FIFA ranking

2016
USA 3-3 JPN -
SWE 3-0 JPN x
JPN 2-3 NED x

2017
NED 0-1 JPN v
BRA 1-1 JPN -
JPN 2-4 AUS x
USA 3-0 JPN x

2018
JPN 2-6 NED x
CAN 2-0 JPN x
JPN 1-1 AUS -
JPN 1-0 AUS v
USA 4-2 JPN x
JPN 1-2 BRA x
AUS 2-0 JPN x

2019
USA 2-2 JPN -
BRA 1-3 JPN v
JPN 0-3 ENG x
FRA 3-1 ENG x
GER 2-2 JPN -
JPN 0-2 ENG x
NED 2-1 JPN x
JPN 4-0 CAN v

2020
JPN 0-1 ENG x

....from which results against "the big 4" (USA, GER, FRA, ENG) are:

2016
USA 3-3 JPN -

2017
USA 3-0 JPN x

2018
USA 4-2 JPN x

2019
USA 2-2 JPN -
JPN 0-3 ENG x
FRA 3-1 JPN x
GER 2-2 JPN -
JPN 0-2 ENG x

2020
JPN 0-1 ENG x

I'd like to see some more green/blue here, starting with the Olympics and toward WWC2023.

 

Obviously in 2019 it should be instead
FRA 3-1 JPN x

 

Given that it was “almost” 0-0, the results appear to be better than the prior matches with England.

Novice question: Does the England team strictly maintain only English players excluding players in Wales and N Ireland? Otherwise, UK minus Scottland?

 

Yes it does, only English players can play for England - or ones having dual citizenship (but there are also FIFA rules to consider)
For the Olympics though FIFA allowed to form team GB (only for women's team) with players comming from England, Wales, Scotland and N.Ireland (all FA's had to agreed).England coach Phill Neville was given the job to form and coach them in Tokyo OG.

 

Then, the UK/GB Olympic team must be significantly better than the England team.

 

Not necessarily...as the team is often more than sum of it's parts. While it's true that Neville will have bigger pool of quality players to chose from he also needs time to gel them togheter, a time he dosen't have. He will get one or two camps before hand Olympics with no friendlies to play at all. Finding balance in team roster between English and non-English players will be quite hard I imagine.

 

I agree.

 

To compare, Japan results under Sasaki (first 4 years)
(it's worth to remember that as assistant to former coach Ohashi he took over what was already quite developed team.Takakura by her own choice started almost from scratch.

Results versus top 10 in FIFA ranking as in 2011.

2008
JPN 0-3 CAN x
AUS 1-3 JPN v
AUS 0-3 JPN v
USA 1-0 JPN x
NOR 1-5 JPN v
JPN 2-4 USA x
GER 2-0 JPN x

2009
GER 0-0 JPN -
FRA 4-0 JPN x
FRA 5-1 JPN x

2010
JPN 0-1 AUS x

2011
USA 2-0 JPN x
USA 2-0 JPN x
SWE 1-1 JPN -
JPN 0-2 ENG x
JPN 1-0 GER v
JPN 3-1 SWE v
JPN 2-2 USA -
JPN 1-0 AUS v

from which results vs,"big 4" are:

2008
USA 1-0 JPN x
JPN 2-4 USA x
GER 2-0 JPN x

2009
GER 0-0 JPN -
FRA 4-0 JPN x
FRA 5-1 JPN x

2011
USA 2-0 JPN x
USA 2-0 JPN x
JPN 0-2 ENG x
JPN 1-0 GER v
JPN 2-2 USA -

 

I've been reading (with help from google translator) some articles published in Japanese press and on social media outlets after todays game and I have to say there's a lot of negativity toward the team and coach... with a lot of it beeing unfounded.
While some of the critique have merit and is quite grounded, many has very strange reasoning behind.
Seriously... some articles sound like the author has no clue about day-by-day international women's football, but as football journalist in general his take on the matter is to trust Neville's interview (in other terms his word) over Takakuras because "he actually knows what he speaks about and is so famous a former player from Man U".
I mean English coach could've been lying thru his teeth - which he actually does speaking ie. that England should've been 4-0 before HT ; thus creating narrative to pick up by the others:
- from Guardian -
"There is no doubting that England were the better team for the majority of the game"

What is sad here (if I understand it correctly) is on how many eager ears it falls - keen on rather taking his word - than to trust thier own countrywomen.

(Because of use of translator I do fully expect loosing a lot of depth from those opinions and if I pair that with my ignorance about inner-workings of Japanese society, their customs, culture and language - I very well may blaber nonsese here...still I got that feeling reading those opinions that something's off)

 

Sounds like discrimination to me: Neville can be trusted more over Takakura - because he is a man....
Not my opinion, just to make sure.

 

Ellen White pounces as England limp past Japan in SheBelieves Cup | Football | The Guardian

My observation of the England manager is that he claims to take full responsibility for the results then does the exact opposite and points out that his players did not play the way he wanted when they lose.
Various commentators and media types have also pointed this out

Either you take responsibility or you don't.

I am not aware of Takakura san blaming her players

 

Sounds like England has a Trump clone for a coach. At least he does not wear Garfield on his head and spray on his tan and tell lies instead of the truth when the truth would do just fine. Maybe he is under control of the "Obsidian Order" from Star Trek Deep Space nine. If fact he might just be the real life incarnation of "Elim Garak." There is a bit of a family resemblance, don't you think?

 

So I just watched the game.

I am not sure where to start. It was okay today, but too many errors and no real flare or imagination from anybody. On top of that some really poor mistakes at the back and from midfield that lead to most of England's best chances. The goal they eventually scored did come from good defensive pressure, but still the defence needs to be sharper.

I thought Mina Tanaka played well up front and so did Momiki out on the right. Miura and Sugita played well, but made some bad passes that put other players under pressure.

Nadeshiko did not create much, but that will come much later in the season (I hope). There was lots of slow movement on the ball and on the break with very few really quick passes in tight spaces. It is early in the season, but it does not look good. I am sure they will get better, because they could not get worse.

I understand that Takakura wants some cohesion in the team by playing Sugita, Miura and Nakajima, but surely she could have substituted one of them for Naomoto, Matsubara or even Kumagai. I imagine she is going to play a different team against the US, but I would like to see Kumagai in midfield maybe next to Sugita. I think she has to bite the bullet and start playing players in their natural positions.

And that leads me back to Jun Endo. I hope this experiment has put any notion of playing her at left back. If Takakura cannot see how awkward and uncomfortable she looks in that position then Nadeshiko is lost. Until Endo starts playing at left back for Beleza I do not want to see her playing anywhere near left back. But given Shimizu's injury she may play against the US at left back. I will probably be proved wrong and she will be amazing the next time she plays there.

Nadeshiko have an almost pathological obsession with playing 4-4-2 and I understand why, but I find it interesting that Beleza and INAC (the two teams with the most players in the Nadeshiko squad) do not play that formation. I think it is part of the problem and part of the reason why Nadeshiko do seem to start the seasons quite slowly. I would like to see a 4-3-3 with Kumagai, Miura and Sugita in midfield.

And yes Hasegawa is sorely missed. I believe she got injured in training and was due to fly back today.

 

Endo is very capable of learning the left back roll but she is more natural as a forward or even midfielder. She "could" do what Dunn has done for the US but first she should be allowed to learn her clearly favorite position. Even now Dunn still plays forward for her club. Endo needs to be moved forward and kept there for at least two years or so. That is unless the coach is trying to break her spirit.

 

The continued use of 4-4-2 combined with the insistence of using players out of position is so irritating, essentially worst of both worlds.

 

Formations are effectively meaningless. It is how they are played that matters.As an example I have see a formation identified as a 3-4-3 look like an extremely attacking formation by simply instructing one of the central mids to play further forward and moving the defense into two backs with the third playing more like a deep defensive mid.

On the other telling the center forward to withdraw and play as a central attacking mid and moving two mids back to play as defensive mids and you have an quite defensive base formation.

I think the real problem with Japan's 4-4-2 is that almost all the time you can look at the field and see 4-4-2. There is no dynamic flow to the formation. It almost seems a lot of the time that players are afraid to venture out of position even if the other team has overloaded or isolated an area of the field. That makes for mismatches any time the other team wants one. That means that the other team s always in control and that is not a good way to win matches.

Simply put Japan is too disciplined.

 

She may improve and end up being a capable full-back, but I think she needs time playing the position against easier opposition. Sameshima in 20009 started playing at left back for Mareeze and was able to use that experience when she played for Nadeshiko.

I could be wrong, but I doubt Endo will be given that opportunity, because she is a really good attacking player. Having said that I would prefer Ueki in the team over her.

I cannot disagree with you on this. To be fair to her, she is already a very good attacking player.

 

In the case of the US there have been many many players that transitioned very effectively from attacking to defense. But we have the advantage of a much more freeform culture. The very thing that gives Japan a huge advantage in many things also serves as a problem when people are asked to move outside their comfort zone. Japan is simply too disciplined on the field and when a player is asked to play or preform outside their comfort zone they often look very uncomfortable. This means that as long as things go well and everything is as expected all is fine and even great and, in the case of soccer, if you want a player to move to a different position you must often do it slowly and sometimes in steps.

Endo is a VERY good attacking player and I believe she can be effective in just about any attacking position from either wing to center forward or withdrawn forward or even defensive mid. However she would become weaker the further she moves back in the formation or the more centrally she is played. She seems to be one of those players that is a LOT better if she is played in a fairly consistent position. That is no knock on her even Mia Hamn was a lot that way for most of her career. She needs consistency in her position and play and if she gets it she could be one of the best Japan has ever had but playing her so far out of position and giving her no chance to excel could ruin her for now and for the future.

 

Think I did something wrong above...hey ho