The FC Dallas Thread

I agree with you they are rare, but we won't get them by having them play in MLS from age 18-22. We don't know who they are, but I suggest no matter who they are, we need them in better environments than what MLS provides.

For Senior National team context, Reynolds and Brewer are both irrelevant. Neither will see a WC match. At least Brewer took a shot. And add that if most FCD kids that head abroad turn into Shaft Brewer perhaps that says more about FCD than the kids. If our best academy can't produce kids that can compete in the best leagues, then I guess we should fold up shop and go home. Or put on our jerseys if we are lucky enough to qualify, go nutz if we get an easy group and get out of group play and claim victory when we get hammered in the round of 16 by Belgium and other countries a quarter of our size.

 

How many players would you say should leave for elite European soccer?

 

How many legit Champions League players in even the best academies in the world that can sign players from all over their country churn out on a year to year basis?

Seems like FCD would be doing pretty well to churn out one every ~5 years, but I really have no idea. Not sure you can really compare even with pretty good data.

 

I would settle for putting at least one or two kids in Europe and getting them to first team of a big 5 league team. If each MLS club would focus on that, our National team might compete.

Clark Hunt said he feels he should help develop players for the National team. I would suggest he should develop players that could make the National team a competitive team on the Global stage. Putting ten MLS guys on the National team is not needed.

According to Clint Eastwood our very best 02 and 03 players are not even qualified to play in elite European leagues after spending years in the FCD Academy, so maybe we should just be happy with being invited to the tournament as an easy win for the France's and Germanys or the World.

 

And yet 5 years ago everyone was exctied for Akale, DLT, Miazga, and EPB calling them the future of the national team. Europe is not for everyone. Not every player is meant for Europe. The obvious talented players like Pulisic, Reyna, Sargent, Llanez, Adams, and Richards should go there but the rest of the players not in that tier are going on a suicide mission heading into Europe.

 

I agree that if a top prospect sticks to playing in MLS 18-22 they’re less likely to stay a top prospect, but at least they have a good shot at becoming a decent USMNT player. There’s also a similar likelihood that they go to Europe from the start and don’t amount to anything.

If the goal is to produce far more Pulisic’s and Reyna’s to have a shot at winning a WC then I think you need to be more patient. Most of the HGs getting time in MLS now probably wouldn’t have made it out of the academy in the Bundesliga.

However, MLS academies will produce better talent over time as it increasingly looks like a more attractive career path, and MLS quality will improve which will give those prospects in MLS an easier transition to play in the top leagues abroad.

 

Clemson angle is the key here. Otherwise ESPN wouldn't care.

 

USYNT hype and getting a foot in the door is great, but he washed out. He is not the kind of player I want on the USNT.

How many u17 USYNT studs have we seen who are nowhere by 22? I agree with the notion many will get churned up and spit out if they go abroad, like Lleget. That says to me they were not the player we wanted. If we send 30 over seas to top clubs in big leagues and only get 5 for the USMNT that are then starters on the Shalkes, Dortmunds, West Hams, Juve and Romas of the world that is where we need to go. The rest can come back and play in MLS, make some money and never be on the National team.

 

ironic because in 2014 Wil Trapp was a player who everyone was begging to get integrated into the USMNT.

Let's look at a couple guys who were considered can't miss prospect who we're ynt eligible over the last couple years that would have been better off starting in MLS: Junior Flores, Rubio Rubin, Marc Pelosi, Gale Agbossomounde, Matthew Dunn, Danny Barbir, Josh Perez, Mukwelle Akale, Luca De La Torre, Brooks Lennon, Shaq Moore, Cameron Carter-Vickers, Erik Palmer-Brown, Julian Green, Nick Taitague, Maki Tall, Andrija Novakovic, Blaine Ferri, and more.

Europe should be for the best of the best ynt prospects that we have who have obvious talent from day 1. The others we are just sending over and killing their careers. We can't just say "well because these guys made it then these others will" because we're sending over prospects who are not good enough. Right now I'm nervous about someone like Evan Rotundo going over to Germany because I don't think he's good enough and he's one of the best 2004's

 

Not Clint but I think that's really subjective. It takes a super strong mentally kid to leave home and go play abroad with a different language, country situation. I admire guys like Ledezma, Soto, Sergant, Mendez, Tompkins, etc. That's not easy and if we can continue to send 30+ a year over at 16 or 18 then that's great. A lot of those guys are going to flame out or come back. I think a player like Parks is way better because he went to Portugal. Not every kid handles what he went through to do it and succeed.

There's room for both. MLS kids, especially guys like say Sealy that signed early and are obviously improving and hopefully moving up the ladder. He'll make his FCD debut sometime this season. Whether he stays long term or parlays that T&T passport to a bigger club remains to be seen. MLS needs to get better at developing the kids, and it appears as though they are. Probably not as fast as posters here want but coaching, quality of competition, and opportunity to play at the highest level that challenges a player is continuing to happen here. Overall we're much better off than we were a decade ago.

I'm rooting for Gomez. I hope he does well at Porto but I don't have much expectation for it because it's hard to make it there and tons of kids flame out at great academies like that. Which is why it's impossible for me to say every kid should go abroad. It's not one size fits all.

Overall more kids playing at every level all over the world is the answer. One one or the other is isn't enough.

 

How many u17 USYNT studs had the option to sign for a professional team before the 2017 u17 cycle? Not many, they all went to college instead of staying in a professional environment which makes a huge difference. What is most important for a players development is first team minutes and if a player has an opportunity to get first team minutes why should he forego it unless he's a Pulisic or Reyna level player and never even get a look for the USMNT?

 

Ferri is not back in the states because he lacked the skill. It was off the field issues that got him in hot water.

 

Guess it depends on what your goal is. Do you want these kids to have good MLS careers and make some money, then I would agree they should all have stayed in MLS.

That is not my goal as a fan of the USMNT. I would like to see the USMNT be a top 4 National team and compete to WIN a WC. If all of those guys washed out of Europe and we get one Pulisic, Weston or Clint Dempsey level player then so be it. I agree a bunch of kids will wash out, flame out and come back to MLS. I don't think we will be competitive with those players on a USMNT. I say send them all over the cauldron and see who comes out the other side. There is always MLS and USL for the washouts.

 

I think that if players focus on going to clubs where they are valued prospects, there will be more success across the board. Some of the biggest problems are when players waste far too much time in unproductive situations. For example, Lletget spent a lot of time in the U23s of West Ham during their Big Sam era, which was a terrible fit.

McKennie to Schalke? Immediately was one of their best prospects and they placed him at the forefront of their plans. Great move.

Johan Gomez to Porto? Good luck. It's so, so easy to be in over your head at a club like that. I don't know Gomez's game well enough to say for sure, but I'm skeptical.

Even Richards at Bayern, if we're being honest, is in danger of being Just Another Guy in their academy. He wouldn't be at 99% of clubs around the world, though.



Man, if Dallas sells a couple of guys over the next few windows we'll really be able to stop having these conversations. Inshallah.

 

At the base of it I guess the main question is do you think the USMNT could compete on a global stage with kids developed in the MLS academies and playing in the MLS? I don't. This thread supports that position as many seem to think the best MLS youth players and USYNT players in the country shouldn't even try to compete with the best.

I think we need to have players starting in big five leagues to be competitive for a WC. I don't think we get there by having our best talent sign in and stay in the MLS until they are 22 and 23. Time will tell if I am wrong when and if we win the the WC with roster full of MLS allstars.

 

Agree and would love to see that.

 

I believe that it is vitally important in the long term for us to be able to produce top-class players domestically. Not everyone will be able to move to Europe at age 16 or 18 for various reasons. We can't entirely outsource development.

I also believe that MLS clubs will not make necessary investments and improvements in their coaching, infrastructure, and culture, if they are completely denied access to all of their better prospects.

Therefore, the status quo of some top prospects going abroad and some top prospects staying is okay with me.


Implicit in your argument is the assumption that signing with MLS is bad because MLS clubs will never sell. That assumption is not unfounded, but I do have hopes that this will change in the near future. I expect that once MLS clubs begin to sell with more regularity, a lot of the issues people have with HGP signings will go away.

 

I am only a casual fan of the MLS so if they lose their best youth players to Europe, we compete for a WC and I get to watch young American in the EPL, Bundesgliga and Champions League's games I am fine with that.

It is implicit that MLS clubs are slow to sell, or just don't do it. If that changes it will be a big plus for the USMNT. As I said, if they are good enough, I would love to see Pax, Roberts and Tanner from FCD sold sooner rather than later. If FCD makes money off that great. If they keep them until they are 25, no Bueno.

 

Davies, Adams, Ledezma, Llanez and Reyna are MLS academy produced players. The idea that MLS academies can't produce players good enough to go produce in a major european league has no fundamental argument.

 

I'm hoping for some more reporting about what's going on with MLS clubs selling homegrown players. MLS is perfectly happy to sell players, of course; it seems pretty much fine about selling foreign players.

It's also willing to sell domestic players -- Davies, Steffen, Adams, Scally, maybe Durkin. It seems like MLS teams value the PR value of selling as much as the actual money and deal-flow, so you get situations like Busio where teams are saying they'll only sell for huge money.

 

Where are they now? All at a young age. None of them stayed in MLS for very long if at all ( Llanez, Reyna, Ledezma) They all decided to move on and test themselves against the best, some as young as 17.

 

The only club who has really kept a player from moving so far is Dallas with Cannon and even then there were rumored work visa denials. With a club like Dallas who is pushing the HG capacity limit do you think they will keep all of them? They sold one highly talented prospect off already and they'll do it again when the right offer comes in.

 

What?

Jay Heaps was a bench-warmer for Duke basketball. He had zero NBA future. Maybe coulda played hoops overseas somewhere but never here.