I guess I'm the only one, which is OK here, but I really couldn't tell from a truncated slo-mo clip if this should've been a red card or not. Getting the names and teams confused, I confess at first I was considering whether there's a foul or card on Blue (Chelsea) for sliding into the tackle but felt White (Tottenham's LoCelso) was hopping into the tackle, too. It's clear to me Lo Celso is looking to shield the ball yet is bracing for contact from the Chelsea player. Whether LoCelso should be able to pull out of the challenge in the split-second as the Chelsea player slides in to knock the ball away is, in my view, a high-level judgment call. You know. For referees Like what we have here in this Forum. Also as in: beyond my ability to say with confidence either way. To me, though, this is again an instance where slo-mo distorts reality. Some people on Twitter speak of intent on LoCelso's part to stomp on the Chelsea player's leg but that's an aberration caused by watching in slo-mo, making it appear LoCelso has way more time to be thinking of what he's doing than he actually has. If referees here think - WATCHING AT FULL SPEED - that this should be a red card, that LoCelso should be able to pull out of this challenge and avoid stomping on Blue's leg, I can accept that. To me, it's a high-level judgment call. But that's what it is - a high-level call taking a lot of experience. I don't think it's obvious - or should seem obvious - to a casual fan although slo-mo, in all its sports-ruining glory, may make them think it's obvious.
If you’re talking about VAR globally, you need to clean it up a bit more. While the protocols say that it’s a referee’s decision to do an OFR or not, that is solely to keep up the idea that the referee is the final arbiter of everything per the Laws. In practice, it’s not true. In MLS and other leagues, if a VAR says “I recommend an OFR for ....” and the referee does NOT do the OFR, that referee is not going to referee again for awhile. Probably a long while. This just doesn’t happen. For all practical purposes, the VAR institutes an OFR once he uses the magic word “recommend.” You are right that the discussion about what the referee saw may very well inform whether an OFR is needed. But, truly, the VAR is the official who is practically triggering the OFR despite what the protocols and handbook technically say.
The video that was shown from a different angle shows the ball going into touch (Jose picks it up, and misses the tackle!). The fourth (Kevin Friend) is nowhere in the frame. They usually hang out halfway down the tunnel. Contrast that with a UEFA match, where it seems the fourth is always between the two technical areas in plain sight. To the non-referees, it must seem so weird to be able to rule two goals out in one match without hesitation on unseen issues, yet not give the advice for a red card when there appears to be a clear and obvious error in two other matches. And, I’m not pointing fingers or casting aspersions, but the overwhelming majority of PL clubs have betting sites as shirt sponsors. Conspiracy theorists would have a field day with this stuff. You have to be above board! Money changes hands on these decisions. I am not implying there is anything beyond mistakes being made, but these leagues are in bed with the betting sites (just like the US) and you better make absolutely sure your processes are correct. Which, as it seems, right now, they aren’t.
Let me edit this for you. Intent means nothing. Referees are not mind readers. That’s a thousand per cent a red card at any speed.
Another great day for VAR in EPL! Aside from the "no red card" decisions. No PK given when Man City defender contacts ball with hand at head height, but PK given when Leicester defender contacts ball with arm out while turning away from shot. Also very odd decisions in Burnley-Bournemouth match. Bournemouth goal disallowed and instead PK given to Burnley for HB by defender. This incident was close to AR, but no flag? Curiouser and curiouser (apologies to Lewis Carroll). PH
There's VAR and there's VAR as its done in the EPL. I am disappointed with VAR in the EPL. I am satisfied with VAR in the MLS. There is a difference between the two. We can talk about the protocols, and whether something conforms with the protocol. VAR in the EPL conforms to the protocol. Yet, there is a general sense that VAR in the EPL is not doing what it should be. The EPL needs to fix it's VAR problems, if that means changing the protocols, so be it. VAR protocols are arbitrary constructs that can be changed. There is nothing mystical about them.
I feel so sorry for the EPL fans in England. I can't imagine going to see the sport you love live and then having the enjoyment ripped from it.
No, it doesn’t. Not at all and that’s the point. A referee is not supposed to award a penalty via VAR without an OFR (notwithstanding situations where it’s just a matter of inside v outside). EPL ignores that. It also ignores it on review of goals. And it was ignoring it on red cards until recently. Well, they are codified by IFAB. If you mean they can evolve like the Laws, sure. But they aren’t abstract. There’s a real, detailed Handbook.
This one I'm fine with. The handball was not neccesarily in view of the AR, and as an AR, your focus area isn't always at that point in the play. It's the same kind of thing as the miss of Maradona's handball (never mind any of the other events like that over the years). The goal at the other end happened so fast that there was no time for VAR to call anything down when the play was in a neutral area. 17s. That's it. The protocol (other than the lack of OFR) was actually followed properly here.
There was no reason no to see this, the play was going out towards the AR, he should have been looking right at it False equivalence here! Nowhere near the same. And the linesmen (not specialist ARs) in those days were far less likely to intervene if the referee did not call it. "Other than that, how did you enjoy the play Mrs. Lincoln?" Still not very good optically and why some of these decisions are really spoiling the enjoyment of the game for many people, including probably the referees themselves who are coming under a lot of fire, and some whose performance has notably declined this season. PH
When was the Leicester penalty claim? I didn’t see it in the highlight package so interested in looking. The City penalty was definitely a penalty per the new Laws. There’s no mitigating factor for that anymore. I’m almost surprised it was given, though, given England’s desire to drag its feet and complain about those changes, too. In any other competition with VAR, that would have been an open and shut case with very little drama.
From a Leicester DFK at 29 mins, about 22 yards out. Once again, it is hard to reconcile the hair-splitting in these decisions. Either both should be PKs or none are. And if as you say the MC one is a definite PK according to the new Laws, why does it need VAR to make the call. The CR had a perfectly good view of it. Sometimes I think the people who come up with "New" Laws really don't understand football. They don't add to the enjoyment of the sport IMO. PH
In 2019, 37 incidents (just under 25% of all video reviews in MLS games) resulted in NO change to the original call. Additionally, there were 5 incidents reviewed in 2019 for red cards that resulted in one or more yellow cards being shown but no reds.
Rough start to MANU:WAT. CR has missed an off the ball charge and an on the ball grab. Both would have resulted in DFK from very dangerous areas. (One each team) But no VAR for that.
Thanks. That is a very tough one. I think, letter of law, you can justify the penalty call rather easily. His hand has made his body unnaturally bigger. Even if the reflex is to protect the face (which it pretty clearly was) there’s nothing in the Laws that make an exemption for that if the body is becoming bigger. Overall, I can see this given in a lot of leagues via VAR. Again, England is slow to accept these changes and reluctant to use VAR. So not surprised it wasn’t given here. We have entered, perhaps irreversibly, a hair-splitting era of officiating at the professional level.
Interesting PK. I would accepted call or no call. It was a total dive with contact. No error, but the dive happened before contact.
Yes, I understand this, but they gave the MC PK with similar circumstances! There is no way to know which way it will go. It almost looks like it is coin flip. I would add regrettably to this sentence. When the average fan, with a reasonable understanding of the game over many years, let alone people with more expertise, cannot predict with at least 75-80% accuracy the outcome of an incident, then something is wrong and needs to be fixed. The three overlooked red cards this week also add to this dilemma. And it is clearly affecting the performance, and possibly confidence, of some referees. PH
It is also difficult to understand why decisions have become more strict regarding handling incidents and PKs or disallowed goals, yet now more lenient with SFP. In recent years, I feel that all three of those SFP incidents we saw this week would have resulted in red cards, and neither of the handling incidents would have been PKs, being judged as unintentional. None of these changes is making the game better. In my opinion, this is the wrong way to go and it is adding to the dissatisfaction and frustration of all interested parties, with perhaps the exception of the IFAB and some of the referee instructors at the professional level. PH
That's how I saw it. He was going down whether there turned out to be contact or no. Kind of a tough no-call though. PK with a caution to the attacker?
That's a really high number and much higher than I thought it was. The fact that in MLS about a quarter of video reviews result in no change to the original call tells you all you need to know that OFRs would NOT be some magic elixir to fix what ails the EPL VAR program. With all the training and protocols MLS has in place 1 out of every 4 reviews is essentially a waste of time. Either the original call was correct and the VAR's bar was too low or the original call was wrong, but the referee himself didn't think it met the bar for clear and obvious. Neither are good. All OFRs would do is make the officiating team look even more incompetent if instituted in the EPL. There is probably a really good chance that if Oliver saw the challenge via OFR, he might just show only a yellow card and it would make yesterday's scenes even more farcical. Imagine if Taylor views the Maguire kick to the nuts and shows a yellow card or nothing. It would be even more ridiculous. Simply put VAR isn't working and it needs to be scrapped. It's just ruining the game. None of the players like it and the fans in the stadium hate it.
Carabao Cup Final Aston Villa - Man City: MASON [VAR: Dean] Dean is heavily involved in the competition this year, having also refereed two of the four semifinal matches.
Article about Peter Crouch's Podcast featuring Mike Dean. https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...table-to-give-peter-crouch-a-referees-insight PH