Stadium Proposal

Discussion in 'Indy Eleven' started by spidermonkey317, Jan 10, 2019.

  1. jeffcoop

    jeffcoop BigSoccer Supporter

    Jul 11, 2006
    Central Indiana
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Perhaps they should plan for a stadium seating about 15,000 that can be expanded to 25,000 if necessary. At this point, I think it's highly unlikely that MLS is coming here.
     
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  2. antnee7898

    antnee7898 Member

    Oct 19, 2007
    South Houston, TX
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    MLS will go to 32 teams at least. After Charlotte, Vegas seems the favorite. If Indy gets a stadium, I can see them as 32. Phoenix is not a lock.
     
  3. BTL97

    BTL97 Member

    Apr 25, 2014
    Indianapolis
    Club:
    Indy Eleven
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I have been kinda checked out from soccer for a while and had no clue MLS was this balls to the wall with expansion. US soccer is so damn weird man, if they expand beyond 32 teams they're insane, 32 is more than enough.
     
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  4. jeffcoop

    jeffcoop BigSoccer Supporter

    Jul 11, 2006
    Central Indiana
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Part of the fear here, I think, is that MLS isn't really sustainable and that it's using expansion fees to paper over its financial troubles. I hope I'm wrong, but I see uncomfortable echoes of the rapid expansion of the original NASL.
     
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  5. tiaotnszn

    tiaotnszn Member

    Chicago Red Stars
    United States
    Nov 13, 2019
    If that were the case I highly doubt Joe Mansueto would have bought control of a team even after getting a look at the books as a minority owner. The man literally made his fortune by starting one of the largest investment research firms.
     
  6. GenWRX

    GenWRX Member

    Nov 16, 2016
    Club:
    Indy Eleven
    As jeffcoop indicated, the team is keeping a tight lip on this subject. I've asked for information several times, with mixed results; often silence.

    I also agree that a stadium of that size without MLS seems unnecessary and it would be better to start smaller with the ability to expand. I don't have a good feel for how the ownership group perceives their ability to get into MLS, but it seems like a long shot for Indy at this point. Even if MLS expands beyond it's current "stopping point"...
     
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  7. Tobias C

    Tobias C Member+

    Columbus Crew
    United States
    Mar 6, 2014
    Toledo, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I dont know how intense Indy fans feel about MLS expansion, but with teams like Cincy and Nashville joining recently, I highly doubt the league is high on the city.

    I think the team can and will be super successful regardless, if they just focus on trying to dominate USL, like Louisville. I see you guys averaged almost 11k attendance this year, with a low of only 8k and high of 20k. That's pretty massive for USL. 15k would probably be an ideal size for a new stadium. You'll get a decent bump in attendance just because of new stadium hype and curiosity on the part of casuals and non-fans. You want a capacity that you can realistic hope to get consistent sell outs in.

    Even if we dont see pro/rel in America for another couple decades, you'll be well positioned to move up if you've become one of the perennial dominant forces in USL both on field, and off field/business-wise.
     
  8. JDogindy

    JDogindy Member

    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Indy Eleven
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Considering the league's move to add Charlotte, given how nonexistent soccer is in that market compared to the nearby Triangle and the preexisting spending habits in that market on sporting teams, it's becoming more and more clear that the move to MLS isn't exactly the "land of milk and honey". Sure, there are benefits, such as a national TV deal, appearing in a yearly video game, and being part of the "global" scene, but from a financial standpoint, it seems more than ever the MLS is propping itself on the short-term gains of expansion fees than long term solvency considering how people don't watch MLS on TV (which affects ad revenue).

    As for how this affects Indy, I think ultimately a new stadium only plays a small part in this new algorithm to getting into MLS. You need the capital upfront to get into MLS more than anything else, or to put it more bluntly; money talks.

    We're getting a new stadium, but given these recent developments, they are probably examining how the stadium should be built in light of these new revelations, meaning that it will be smaller in size as USL Championship is going to be where Indy will stay and would probably have more of an emphasis on additional activities (high school football, farmer's markets, concerts) than have soccer be the primary focus. I dunno; I'm just guessing here, but in light of having no information for months besides "it was approved", that's all we can do.
     
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  9. JDogindy

    JDogindy Member

    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Indy Eleven
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    On the subject of potential land they can build the stadium on, Lafayette Square is for sale.

    https://www.ibj.com/articles/rethinking-lafayette-square

    The site would require them to purchase from two different landowners, due to the Sears garage and property not being part of the rest of the building. However, it is something that is now up for grabs on the table, particularly for the purpose of development even though it is one of the poorer areas of the city.
     
  10. jeffcoop

    jeffcoop BigSoccer Supporter

    Jul 11, 2006
    Central Indiana
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't see that happening. I'm sure the site would be cheap compared to other options, and highway access is good, but I don't think the fanbase wants to go there.
     
  11. JDogindy

    JDogindy Member

    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Indy Eleven
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Of course not. I floated this over at the Brickyard Batallion's Facebook page and while anything's better than nothing, it's not the best solution. Clearly, the best solution is to stay downtown. However, staying downtown is kind of the weakness of Indianapolis, but this is due to the way our city is designed and also the natural aversion of crummy neighborhoods by default, which also goes against the Twin Aire idea I also have.

    But, it is exists, and we do need to keep the discussion open for the sake of clarity and brevity.
     
  12. stphnsn

    stphnsn Member+

    Jan 30, 2009
    It would be better than Broad Ripple.
     
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  13. jeffcoop

    jeffcoop BigSoccer Supporter

    Jul 11, 2006
    Central Indiana
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    With MLS prospects dwindling, a bigger stadium doesn't make much sense, at least to start. Expandable seems the way to go. The team does need a new home, one way or another.
     
  14. stphnsn

    stphnsn Member+

    Jan 30, 2009
    How about the "smaller stadium, smaller cost to the club" angle? That was my first thought. "Oh, the state and city will give us $112M? Let's downsize the stadium so we don't have to pay for any of it ourselves." I don't know how the funding mechanism works, but I hope that's not Ersal's thought process here, or if it is, I hope the legislature and city put the kibosh on it ASAP.
     
  15. GenWRX

    GenWRX Member

    Nov 16, 2016
    Club:
    Indy Eleven
    That's not how the funding mechanism works. The team has to pay 20% of the cost of the stadium out of their own pockets and then the rest of the funding mechanism kicks in, which allows the taxes generated at the stadium to be used to help pay off the remaining portion of the stadium. As I've mentioned in my post when the Senate Bill made it through the legislature, the language in the law states:
    (f) "For purposes of subsection (d)(5), the term "twenty percent (20%) of the cost" means either: (1) an initial contribution made before construction begins equal to twenty percent (20%) of the total capital construction cost of the facility; or (2) a commitment to pay twenty percent (20%) of the annual debt service or least rental payments payable for the facility until the financing obligation for the facility is paid in full."

    I'm not sure exactly why the Field of Schemes article states $112M ($150M - 20% = $120M), but they're implying that the State is giving the team that amount of money. All the State is doing is loaning that money to the team and allowing the team to pay back the loan through sales and income taxes on the site.

    Reducing the cost of the stadium does reduce the amount of money that the team has to provide, but it's still 20% of whatever that final cost ends up being. Similarly, the State is still loaning the other 80%, no matter what that number is; not a consistent $112M (or $120M...).
     
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  16. stphnsn

    stphnsn Member+

    Jan 30, 2009
    Thanks for this clarification.

    That is a giveaway if you look at it from Joe Taxpayer's perspective. The government has waived its right to income from the project that it otherwise would receive.

    Is there a recovery mechanism in the event the tax abatement doesn't cover the loan?
     
  17. GenWRX

    GenWRX Member

    Nov 16, 2016
    Club:
    Indy Eleven
    I'm not sure off-hand about the recovery mechanism. I would have to read through the law again (always a fun time...).

    The thing is that wherever the team ultimately selects to build the stadium, there's a good chance that the land is currently sitting unused (or at a minimum underused), meaning that the City/State aren't making any money (taxes) off it right now anyway. A stadium has the potential, and I realize it is just a potential, to draw other businesses around it where income/sales tax can be generated that is currently not happening. With the rest of the proposed development around Eleven Park stadium, they've already started that process.

    As a member of the Joe Taxpayer club, I understand the mentality. Yet as I walk behind the scenes at Lucas Oil Stadium and see what is seemingly unnecessary, but required of Indy Eleven for operating the place for a game, there's no way LOS is cost-effective. Hence, trying to save some money by not running the A/C two years ago...

    I've never thought that building a 20k seat stadium for Indy Eleven was a good idea and that starting smaller and expanding later would be a better course of action. With MLS now a distant long-shot, it seems like the team is realizing it too. That being said, knowing how the State Legislature goes, the team had to try for a larger stadium and larger dollar amount until they knew for sure on where they stood with MLS. It took 6 years to get something approved with the legislature. Who knows how long it would have taken if they started smaller and then tried to go back later to request more money.
     
  18. jeffcoop

    jeffcoop BigSoccer Supporter

    Jul 11, 2006
    Central Indiana
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Did they run the A/C last summer? After being a regular in the first season at LOS, I didn't go to any games last year--a variety of reasons, but a big one was how uncomfortable I'd been in the stifling heat of the un-airconditioned stadium in 2018.
     
  19. GenWRX

    GenWRX Member

    Nov 16, 2016
    Club:
    Indy Eleven
    Yes, they were much better with the use of the A/C during the 2019 season.
     
  20. JDogindy

    JDogindy Member

    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Indy Eleven
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There was at least one game where there wasn't air conditioning, to my knowledge, last year. But they have been better at letting people not bake... at the expense of not offering other things, like exclusive food just for the Indy Eleven matches (like Brickyard Battalion tater tots).

    It's very safe to say owners and billionaires like the idea of charity if it benefits them, so I don't doubt they want to cut costs to help save money for themselves while passing on the cost of construction and operation to the taxpayers. However, a 12K soccer stadium, while more logical for the USL Championship, is a harder sell for the average citizen of Naptown than the 20K stadium originally promised with dreams of MLS being unlikely. It can still do some things, like concerts, yard sales, and high school and college sports, but unless expansion is a possibility, things like MLS, NWSL or... and this is very preliminary given we shouldn't count our chickens, something like the XFL may not be likely for the venue. The stadium should be used as much as possible, so I'm looking at everything that can be utilized.

    Also... we still haven't started construction or even have a place chosen as the site.
     
  21. GenWRX

    GenWRX Member

    Nov 16, 2016
    Club:
    Indy Eleven
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  22. jeffcoop

    jeffcoop BigSoccer Supporter

    Jul 11, 2006
    Central Indiana
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Definitely outside the box. Proximity to highways would be a plus, and there certainly would be enough space. On the other hand, the roar of jets flying in and out of the airport would be a definite negative, not only for fans at the games (I grew up going to Mets games at Shea Stadium, so I know how annoying nearby jets can be for fans) but also for any potential residential component to Eleven Park. That land is available precisely because its proximity to the airport makes it undesirable for residential development.
     
  23. GenWRX

    GenWRX Member

    Nov 16, 2016
    Club:
    Indy Eleven
    Valid point about it being available because it's undesirable. There were houses there at one point and they were bought out by the airport for noise abatement...
     

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