2019-2020 UEFA Referee Discussion [Rs]

I hope the money is good. Cuz that’s ridiculous how much touching and crowding the referee they did.

 

I'd keep an eye on this one. Both squads present significant yet distinct match-management challenges.

Saturday, February 15, 2020
Barcelona vs Getafe: Cuadra Fernández, Guillermo (VAR: Hernández Hernández, Alejandro)

 

UCL Round of 16, First Leg

Atletico Madrid - Liverpool: MARCINIAK (POL) [Gil (POL)]
Dortmund - PSG: MATEU LAHOZ (ESP) [Hernandez Hernandez (ESP)]

 

Atalanta - Valencia: OLIVER (ENG) [Kavanagh (ENG)]
Tottenham - Leipzig: CAKIR (TUR) [Kalkavan (TUR)]

 

Unless Barca or Real Madrid (this is the weakest they've both looked in more than a decade) get to the CL Final this year, I think Mateu Lahoz is getting it.

Question is, who is plan B if one of them do get in? Marciniak?

 

I disagree. When you consider FIFA youth tournaments, Under-21 EURO 2019, Greece's Super League, Saudi Pro League besides home domestic competitions and Champions League group stage - I think there is actually a substantial amount of VAR experience there in almost all cases (EL GS 2020/21 would be the one to worry about, but UEFA has prepared for that in all fairness).

If there will be a total disaster on Thursday though, it will almost definitely happen in Lower Saxony.

 

I think there are three potential problem areas that could arise on Thursday: referees working with VAR procedure; VARs following UEFA guidelines; referee-VAR teamwork / communication.

Referees working with VAR procedure

Only six of the sixteen referees do not use VAR in their domestic competitions.

Madden: Showed lacks in the Saudi King's Cup game he handled, but to be honest I just think he has a too British refereeing paradigm more than anything else.
Kuĺbakoŭ: Very shaky at U21 EURO (lacks in ITAPOL and especially DENSRB), but since no problems, also a couple of games in Saudi Arabia.
Kabakov: No VAR problems at U21 EURO, U17 WC.
Mažieka: He débuts with VAR on Thursday...
Gestranius: Relatively experienced from Greece and Saudi Arabia, no problems (he even seemed to apply UEFA understanding of clear and obvious better than Sidiropóulos in Olympiakós - Panathinaïkós game).
Vinčić: Some games in Greece, Saudi Arabia as well as three CL group stage games.

On the whole, acknowledging that acting as referee with VAR is much easier to learn than acting as VAR, I don't believe we will have bigger problems in this procedural regard.

Treimanis and Ekberg working as AVAR in Mažieka and Gestranius' games respectively, by the way.

VARs following UEFA guidelines

If we see a surprising VAR review, I would expect it to be made by Siebert or Sánchez Martínez, who début in the role on Thursday. Besides, I think all other VARs have been UEFA-educated and understand exactly when UEFA want them to intervene. It is that, in my opinion, that takes as you said, about a year to get used to - in UEFA, crucial mistakes and correctly VAR-supported decisions can and do co-exist and are not mutually exclusive. That takes a lot of getting used to (and is ridiculous in my opinion, but maybe my vision is too quixotic).

Referee - VAR co-operation

I don't expect any CWC Final esque f**k-ups. Kuĺbakoŭ-Guida, Grinfeld-Pinhiero are regular teams, and besides that all mixed teams featured some of the most experienced VARs. UEFA trained a lot of these referee-VAR teams together, and I trust they will work well together. I think putting Mažieka on début with Gil, a popular and easy-going character, is a good decision.

-> Ergo: A disaster is possible, I agree, especially for the referee on VAR début, but for the reasons above I believe it is relatively unlikely that chaos will ensue on Thursday.

 

Klopp was yellow-carded by Marciniak tonight; it's at least his second yellow in the competition this year, having also been carded by Del Cerro Grande in the group stage draw against Napoli. Not sure if there is any consequence to that though.

 

I am not a Liverpool supporter by any means, but I thought Marciniak was undone today by AM’s tactics. Also, a strange yellow card threshold where Klopp found it necessary to sub Mane off at halftime. Mane rightfully deserved his yellow, but AM subsequently targeted him and probably would have been successful if not for going off at halftime. A lot of stop start, rolling around, and lack of presence by the referee (I thought). Not an easy match. I was reading some viewers comments on the Guardian site, and I had to remind myself that a UEFA match is not adjudicated like a Premier League match.

 

Yes, I would have expected an experienced referee like Marciniak to be wise to the AM tactics. It is not as though they have never used them before. Their coach has been a Master of the Dark Arts for many years. All very predicable.

PH

 

With a one-goal advantage, Atlético will double park the bus and seek as broken a game as possible in the second leg.

 

Yes it was. Total blackout by Marciniak there.

Really borderline careless vs. reckless! I prefer that it was evaluated as careless, too. I think you slightly undersold the way Marciniak dealt with that 'passive' mobbing if you will - I think it was brilliant!

I disagree, I don't think it was strange, I think it was actually very good. I can be wrong but I think this match was a lot more challenging than it might have 'looked' and it was ready to 'kick off' at any moment. Besides some missed incidents and terribly played advantage at the end (88') from fully deliberate handling, I don't see what he did wrong in disciplinary control last night.

Maybe it's just me that noticed this, but Marciniak changed his style recently (he even spoke about this in an interview in Poland). Before he was typical boss who just took his decisions on instinct and he was genuinely flawless at UEFA level for a long time (Feb 2014 - April 2017) but then it all started to go a bit wrong, he handled too many games in Saudi Arabia and was a bit destroyed in the end.

Now his style is much more diligent, if you ask me his disciplinary control nowadays is simply brilliant, and he retains a lot of his excellent presence on the pitch - not all though and the days when he could 'reach' even the most troublesome players on the pitch are over ostensibly. His style is perfect for Čeferin-Rosetti era UEFA.

EL Final for him this season?

 

https://streamable.com/5jxhj

Thoughts?

 

I agree with yellow there

 

For those who didn't - refereeing highlights in the link below.

https://ok.ru/video/1372287863331

 

i thought the Gomez yellow was very weak.

 

Mane wasn't getting sent off and Neymar's actions used to be a red card back in the day.

The bar for red cards in CL knockout matches has gotten extraordinarily high over the last decade. UEFA just doesn't want their referees to get involved and "dictate" these ties.

These games kind of now all start following the same pattern. Referees are overly lenient in the first half and try to keep their cards in their pocket and then start dishing out a flurry of cards in the second half to keep control of the game while generally shying away from giving a player the second caution.

When was the last time we saw a red card for SFP in the CL knockout stages? I know I'm way exaggerating here, but Nani in 2013?

 

Certainly seems a far cry from when Busacca gave Robin van Persie a second yellow for kicking the ball after a whistle for offside at Camp Nou in 2011. We can't imagine that happening today with the threshold that is in place.