Premier League 2019-20 Assignments and Discussion [Rs]

Discussion in 'Referee' started by balu, Jul 20, 2019.

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  1. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Good Lord, British tabloids are so awful sometimes. Or maybe all the time?

    Madley and Coote are already on the FIFA list for 2020. The Mail published this article with a photo of Madley literally wearing a 2020 badge. Inherently, they passed the test. You take the test domestically and have it verified when nominated. If Madley and Coote had failed (and not subsequently passed) the fitness test for nomination then they wouldn't even be refereeing in the EPL this season--nevermind be wearing FIFA badges.

    They failed the test in Spain for the first major UEFA clinic. Ergo--from what I understand--they won't be used for UEFA competitions in the first half of this year until they pass a retake. Given their new status on the list, they wouldn't even get major appointments (you don't get UEL or UCL knockout appointments in your first year) so we're talking about this failure preventing them from doing youth matches and/or friendlies, essentially.

    This is one of the worst articles I read in awhile. None of the major claims or implications are accurate, other than them failing a test. And not only is almost all of it factually wrong, but then it presents these failures as some sort of major embarrassment while admitting that both suffered from flu-like symptoms. Go try to take the FIFA fitness test with flu symptoms and tell me how well you do.
     
    balu, SccrDon and LampLighter repped this.
  2. LampLighter

    LampLighter Red Card

    Bugeaters FC
    Apr 13, 2019
    EDIT: Because MassRefs post didn't show up before I posted for some reason.

    The Daily Mails article title is hilariously bad, and referees are attacked no matter what for clicks.
     
  3. GearRef

    GearRef Member

    Manchester City
    United States
    Jan 2, 2018
    La Grange Park, Illinois
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  4. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
  5. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Would it be the first time that brothers are active in the EPL at the same time?
     
  6. Ghastly Officiating

    Tottenham Hotspur
    United States
    Oct 12, 2017
    He is not returning to the PL. He is returning to some of the lower leagues.
     
  7. Ghastly Officiating

    Tottenham Hotspur
    United States
    Oct 12, 2017
    He is not returning to the PL. He is returning to some of the lower leagues.
     
  8. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    I wasn't clear enough. I mean supposing that he eventually makes his way back to the EPL, would it be the first time that brothers are active at the same time?

    In fact, were there ever any brothers who both did EPL games at all?
     
  9. AremRed

    AremRed Member+

    Sep 23, 2013
    Once he gets up to speed on the two years of training + VAR stuff he has missed I think he’ll be back in the Premier League quickly. Can’t deny that quality. What will really be interesting is whether he has a white badge 3 years from now or not. Although he might have to give any chance of that up, as a condition of his reinstatement.
     
  10. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    SOU:BUR
    Handling all day. he extended the arm.
    VAR in England is a joke
     
  11. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You must be kidding. Not only should VAR not intervene there (as it definitely wasn’t a clear error), frankly it was the correct call. Where is his arm supposed to go? Any “extension” you’re seeing is part of the motion for him to put his arm behind his back (which really isn’t an “extension,” it should be noted). The defender is making an active effort to ensure his arm is completely out of the way and you think he should be punished because he doesn’t accomplish it fast enough?

    82’ for anyone that wants to take a look.
     
    IASocFan and Bradley Smith repped this.
  12. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    Simply not so. He spins and then unnaturally lifts the elbow.
    He is not actively getting out of the way. Defenders are getting good at pretending to be getting out of the way while actually getting in the way. You and the CR bought the act.
     
  13. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Okay. You’re wrong. But okay.

    Your incorrect personal assessment that this was a punishable handball aside, the idea that you use this as an indictment of VAR is what makes your post laughable. There isn’t a quality VAR in the world who would intervene there. Absolutely nothing about that is clearly wrong.

    Using this as a criticism of VAR in England undermines all the other valid criticisms. Because this was adjudicated correctly in the VOR (never mind on-the-field, but since you’re so certain about what defenders are pretending to do with shots from three yards away and are well-versed on how professional referees are to be applying the new handball standard, we will let that slide). To say a VAR should have called this as a clear penalty is 100% wrong.
     
  14. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    If you want to see a ridiculous PK HB call, watch the highlights of the Juventus/Milan Italian Cup match earlier this week.
    The defender couldn't even see the ball.

    PH
     
  15. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Worth noting that initially the referee clearly indicated no penalty, but gave the penalty after OFR.
     
  16. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    Yes, but it was still ridiculous. The defender had his back to the attacker and was only about 1 meter away when the ball was kicked at him. No idea of the rationale behind this decision.

    PH
     
  17. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
  18. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    No. No it is not.
    He clearly and deliberately made himself bigger in the path of the ball.

    That is the type of incident - blatant cheating - that fans expect VAR to correct.

    9:17. Arm is at side. As he jumps, arm moves outward away from his body making him about 2” wider. Significant as that arm stopped the ball. If referees in England would use the OFR, he’d have seen it easily.

     
  19. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Literally your entire post is wrong. But I’ve already made my points. So I’ll let others watch and decide for themselves.
     
  20. Mikael_Referee

    Mikael_Referee Member+

    Jun 16, 2019
    England
    Ridiculous (in the English paradigm of refereeing) and correct are not mutually exclusive - awarding the penalty was the correct decision (enlarged body surface; distance, and not facing the ball doesn't matter -> see PARMUN Skomina (Irrati), correct penalty / intervention according to UEFA RAP).

    If you ask me (as an Englishman) the quicker that here we get away from an archaic understanding of handling, and a bit arrogant one at that (only we know when handballs are really deliberate, we don't need clear guidelines, our referees really understand football) the better.

    But I don't mean that as a direct criticism of you - please don't see it like that!

    https://streamable.com/indfh

    I would argue that this situation is a genuine grey area, but all the signals are that this handling is not 'fully deliberate' -> not tense arm, other arm remains in the same position for coordination. I don't think it's best for refereeing if we try to read player's minds; it is better to evaluate the scenes themselves.

    I would accept either decision there with the given explanation (enlarged body surface VS. arms not that far out, used for coordination).

    In genuine grey area scenes (in my opinion, there really aren't many), of course VAR should support the on-field decision.

    As an aside: Hooper could improve by not committing pushes against players that if done to him would merit a Red Card (pretty unprovoked, too) and at least punishing Serious Foul Play scissor tackles with at least a caution, preferably more.
     
  21. jasonakramer

    jasonakramer Member

    Apr 27, 2016
    2 VAR checks at end of first half in AVL TOT, handling not given when maybe it should have, then foul on Bergjwin given when it was pretty obvious.
     
  22. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    Nice post. But I’m not asking for mind reading. Watch your streamable again. As he jumps he unnaturally raises the shoulder and leaves it hang as he pretends to be moving out of the way.
    Players have gotten really good at this and referees are falling for it.

    that all being said, why the resistance to OFR.

    If the ref reviews this, I think he most likely calls it.

    as I type, there is a spurs PK.

    I don’t object to the call, but it really should have been on OFR rather than a directive.
     
  23. AremRed

    AremRed Member+

    Sep 23, 2013
    Not a penalty for handling, ball clearly hit his torso.
     
  24. jasonakramer

    jasonakramer Member

    Apr 27, 2016
    watching on a phone, but i thought it deflected from hip to arm, but :shrug:
     

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