Best Teams if Their Players Were at Their Peak

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by poetgooner, Jan 13, 2020.

  1. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Arsenal
    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    This is a discussion I had with a friend, which first started off as one of those "imagine if X and Y played together at their peak." This led to us talking about how good the 4Rs (Ronaldinho, Rivaldo, Ronaldo, and Romario) of Brazil would be together at their peak. We both agreed that it would be the single most talented international front 4 of all time.

    This naturally led to Ronaldinho-Henry-Messi (arguably, the most talented club football frontline ever?). This then prompted him to say that 2007-2008 Barcelona, if the players were all at their peak, would be the best team of all time. I haven't thought enough about it to agree, but it's easy to see why it would certainly be in contention.

    I wonder what other teams would be in this conversation? The Madrid Galacticos certainly come to mind, but I still think they have too many obvious weaknesses, especially at the back. The 12-13 Madrid is perhaps a better example.
     
  2. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003
    One that comes for mind to me is AC Milan 2003-4. Had Shevchenko, Kaka, Rivaldo, Maldini, Cafu, Nesta, Rui Costa, Pirlo, Gattuso, Redondo, Seedorf, Costacurta, Inzaghi plus a host of next tier players.
     
  3. Tropeiro

    Tropeiro Member+

    Jun 1, 2018
    #3 Tropeiro, Jan 13, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2020
    Maybe Brazil 1966.

    Pelé (1960-1965), Garrincha (1957-1962), Jairzinho (1968-1972), Bellini (1958-1962), Djalma Santos (1956-1962), Gilmar (1958-1962), Gerson (1968-1972), Zito (1958-1962), Tostão (1966-1970) among others.

    --------------- Tostão -----------------
    Jarzinho --- Pelé ---- Garrincha
    ---------- Zito -- Gerson -----------
    Altair--Orlando--Bellini -Djalma Santos
    -------------- Gilmar -----------------
     
    carlito86, Excape Goat and comme repped this.
  4. Edhardy

    Edhardy Member+

    Sep 4, 2013
    Nairobi, Kenya
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Barca 07-08 was incredibly stacked.
    Ronaldinho, Henry, Messi, Eto'o, Gudjohnsen plus Bojan and Gio dos Santos
    Deco, Xavi, Iniesta, Yaya Toure, Edmilson
    Thuram, Puyol, Abidal, Marquez, Milito, Sylvinho, Zambrotta.
    If all these guys were playing at their peak it would be ridiculous.

    @comme Milan 03-04, especially if you include Rivaldo who was on loan then would be a scary prospect too.

    Inter Milan 98-99 had Ronaldo, Baggio, Recoba, Djorkaeff, Simeone, Zanetti, Bergomi among others.

    AC Milan 95-96 Weah, Baggio, Savicevic, Boban, Donadoni, Albertini, Patrick Vieira, Paulo Futre, Marcel Desailly, Maldini
     
  5. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Arsenal
    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Would this really be better than 1962? You'd lose Tostao, Jairzinho, and Gerson but gain the santos trio of Pele, Pepe, and Countinho, while Didi and Nilton Santos are also arguably upgrades.
     
  6. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    This is arguably the most complete team out of all the ones mentioned so far
    I don't see any weakness here
    Even if their front 3 wasn't particularly prolific
    Weah/baggio/savecivic never individually scoring more than 20 non pen goals in a single season

    The galacticos first project 2000-2006 (roughly) you could argue was a failure
    One could argue however that they never played together at their best
    When Zidane arrived Figo was still world class but had already past the apex of his career
    Ronaldo too was more restricted due to injury
    Fernando hierro was old
    Beckham was a purely a financial move and he was already past his best(its odd to think the Madrid board had the option to sign Ronaldinho gaucho and opted for Beckham-one of the worse moves they've possibly ever made)
     
    Estel and Edhardy repped this.
  7. Tropeiro

    Tropeiro Member+

    Jun 1, 2018
    Gerson was comparable to Didi at his best imo. Nilton Santos is a upgrade yes. But losing Tostão that is way better and more all rounded to Coutinho or Vava, a elite playmaker and goalscoring and Jairzinho circa 1970 (8 dribbles completed, 2.2 key passes and 1.36 G+A per 90 minutes in the WC70) to Zagallo or Pepe is def a down move.
     
    carlito86 repped this.
  8. Tropeiro

    Tropeiro Member+

    Jun 1, 2018
    In fact Pelé, Garrincha, Jairzinho and Tostão all playing together in their peaks would be pretty much unplayable. In fact just with Garrincha and Pelé together, Brazil never lost in 50 matches (45W, 5D). Zito and Gerson could offer a pretty balanced midfield too. Bellini is considered as the best Brazilian defender of all time, Djalma as the best RB and Gilmar the best GK.
     
  9. Bavarian14

    Bavarian14 Member

    Bayern München
    Jun 1, 2017
    France 2006

    With Ribery (2012-13) it would be a near perfect squad

    --------------- Henry -----------------
    Malouda --- Zidane ---- Ribery
    ---------- Vieira -- Makelele -----------
    Abidal--Gallas--Thuram -Sagnol
    -------------- Barthez -----------------
     
    Excape Goat and carlito86 repped this.
  10. tLB Odiseo

    tLB Odiseo Member

    Necaxa, Galatasaray, Real Madrid
    Dec 18, 2011
    México
    Club:
    NEC
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    Real Madrid 2002-2003
    [​IMG]
     
    Excape Goat and Edhardy repped this.
  11. tony-soprano37

    Dec 5, 2008
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Ajax of 1983

    Koeman, Rijkaard, Cruyff, van Basten, soren lerby, jesper olsen, jan molby, schrijvers, vanenburg.

    If all in there prime...
    Would be quite a good team...
    Especially midfield and attack would be high class
     
  12. tony-soprano37

    Dec 5, 2008
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Holland of 1974...

    2 huge changes.
    First in goal would be van Beveren he was way way way better then jongbloed.
    Secondly haan and Rijsbergen would not be central defenders but Israël who in his prime was the best central defender Holland has ever had..
    Also that wc Rensenbrink was not in shape.
     
  13. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Rare video here of an indoor tournament where they play against Milan, for some the future team. Milan was then a Serie B team and Baresi just appointed captain.

    La Stampa and Gazzetta dello Sport.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]





    (the match is much shorter than the video, from 13:40 until 39:00 and then from 43:45 to 1:09:00)

    Goals can be seen at 5:05 (the previous game), then at 17:10, 19:05 (own goal), 19:54, 20:39, 25:19 (penalty), 26:08 etc... for the first half. For the second half a Baresi free kick at 46:25, followed by Ajax goals at 50:46 and this one making it 6-3.
     
    Gregoriak repped this.
  14. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    I like Argentina WC 94.

    ....................Islas
    Caceres..Sensini..Ruggeri..Chamot
    ........Redondo...Simeone
    ................Maradona
    ..........Balbo..Batistuta......Cannigia

    With every player in their prime, it's significantly stronger than the 86 WC winners.
     
    Excape Goat repped this.
  15. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Arsenal
    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Every time someone mentions Argentina and World Cup, I am reminded of how Maradona ruined Argentina 2010 for all of us :(
     
    argentine soccer fan repped this.
  16. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Diego is who he is, for better and worse. He didn’t ruin it. AFA - those who put him in charge - ruined it.
     
  17. Excape Goat

    Excape Goat Member+

    Mar 18, 1999
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #17 Excape Goat, May 28, 2020
    Last edited: May 28, 2020
    Denmark 1984 would be awesome with Allan Simonsen in a better condition. Michael Laudrup was 19. Morten Olsen was 34.

    Portrugal 2004, 2006: What if CR7 was in his prime with Figo and Rui Costa, playing at home? Deco was there too, right? Of course, Greece was in form and with momentum. They beat a lot of great teams. Portugal already reached the Final. What else can they do?

    KH Rummenigge also played with Beckenbauer and G.Muller at Bayern Munich. I do not know much about that era.

    Of course, Argentina in 1958 with Di Stefano and Sivori.... Amadeo Carrizo, Rogelio Dominguez, Nestor Rossi, Omar Oreste Corbatta, José SanFilippo, Ángel Labruna and the rest of Angels of Dirty Faces were all active players in 1958.

    Then, Zizinho and Julinho were still active in 1958. Imagine them playing with Pele, Didi, Zito, N.Santos and DJ Santos.

    Netherlands in 1984: Van Basten, Cruyff, Krol, Gullit, R.Koeman, Rijkaard, Hans Van Breukelen, Piet Schrijvers, Willy Van de Kerkhof. Cruyff was the Dutch Player of the Year in 1984. Krol was injured while playing for Napoli. Neeskens and Rep were also active players.
     
    msioux75, PuckVanHeel and Gregoriak repped this.
  18. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    #18 PuckVanHeel, May 29, 2020
    Last edited: May 29, 2020
    The funny thing is that all the three (eventual) Ballon d'Or winners (Cruijff, MvB, Gullit) were at that particular point not miles removed from their best state. Cruijff was in a much better shape and state of mind as in 1982-83 and his displays, consistent productivity against genuine strong sides are clear to see. Both MvB and Gullit also had strong seasons and not enormously far removed from their best state (maybe/arguably that MvB became more of a 'killer' and influencer in later years, able to produce or win penalties in the biggest matches, and yeah even two minutes before his career ended he almost conjured up a goal in the 1993 final). Gullit had 22 assists in the league (ofc with the help by Cruijff and others) which is still the record since they started recording this in 1972.

    The national team (manager was Rijvers) started the qualification haphazard but ended it strong with victories to Spain (later finalist) and a on paper decent Ireland team full of Serie A and First Division starters. They missed qualification for the final eight teams on goal difference (the famous Spain vs Malta 12-1 match).

    I think however Koeman started to get it fully as a 'defender' after this tournament, originally he was a midfielder (1983-1985 was the phase he alternated between midfield and defense). Rijkaard made big strides too; he himself confirmed that a November 1984 match against Bohemians Prague was a turning point for him and after that he became a very consistent and steady player until the end of his career. Rijkaard 'always' had the body feints and defensive skills but applied it consistently from ~1985 on.

    Cruijff said once (in 1984) that if they had qualified he'd be willing to go and travel to France, but only as a bench player and substitute. Because it isn't fair to the players who qualified them to claim a place as an echo from the past, and it is (for everyone) better to be subbed in than subbed out.

    N.B. Cruijff also played against Koeman his dad, here he tumbles over. Then when Koeman jr. encountered him, the first thing he did in midfield was nicking the ball from Cruijff 'without respect', a forceful tackle, and later scoring a goal in the match. Plus, played against the father of Laudrup as well. Also famous is the scene of Koeman kicking his brother Erwin from behind, it's on YouTube too.
     
    Excape Goat and carlito86 repped this.
  19. Excape Goat

    Excape Goat Member+

    Mar 18, 1999
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    I actually did a blog team for Netherlands 1984 team.

    https://soccerfootballwhatever.blogspot.com/2019/12/netherlands-1984.html

    Key points
    Ruud Krol was 35 years old in 1984. He played against Spain in Febuary, 1983 in one of the qualifiers, but he was injured parts of the 1983-1984 season while playing in the Serie A. He returned to action by March, 1984. Napoli parted ways with him that summer, making the way for Diego Maradona to join Napoli. I do not know his fitness around the Spring of 1984.

    Cruyff won the Dutch league as mentioned earlier. He played with Gullit.

    Johan Neeskens was only 32 at the time of the European Championship. He was playing for NY Cosmos. That year, NY Cosmos failed to reach the playoff for the first time since Pele joined the club in 1976. He was released by them on October, 1984. His career was not the same before and after Euro 1984.

    Marco Van Basten was Eredivisie top scorer that year.

    Johnny Rep was playing with PEC Zwolle in Netherlands, but he was a shadow of himself.

    I fogot to mention Arnold Muhren, but he was not on my team.
     
  20. Excape Goat

    Excape Goat Member+

    Mar 18, 1999
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Germany 1994 would be good.

    Except Augenthaler and Littitbarski, the entire 1990 team would be there. In case, people forgot.... Matthaus, Brehme, Klinsmann, Hassler, Kohler, etc.

    The new players on the 1994 team were Sammer, Kahn and Effenberg.
     
  21. nirvaanfc

    nirvaanfc Member

    Juventus
    Italy
    Jan 13, 2004
    Trinidad & Tobago
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Italy 2002 World Cup Team

    Buffon with Toldo as a backup.

    Zambrotta (Panucci)
    Cannavaro-Nesta
    Maldini

    Gattuso Di Livio Tommasi

    Del Piero
    Totti
    Vieri (Inzaghi)

    The criminal omissions of Baggio and Pirlo would have only further stacked that squad.
     
  22. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Holland 1990.... if they were all at the peak of their powers (and Bergkamp was close to making the squad too, was called up a few times but had to wait after the WC for his debut - in 1989 he scored in ten consecutive games, which was then a record)

     

Share This Page