I'm really interested in seeing Holmes but he's a Championship player - we have no idea of his ability to play against faster/smarter/stronger players. We have a pretty good idea about Morales, who isn't a world-beater but can play even against some of the world's elite teams.
I agree with you. I think too many folks put too much emphasis on this goal tally. Sure, he is a forward and he is there to score but when you are in a team that hardly generates any scoring chances then is going to be a tough game. Let me give you an opposite example. Dempsey, he was slow as molasses, hardly defended it was like playing with 10 men but the guy knew where to be for the score and nobody had a problem with that.
On what planet was Jozy a bust from 20-24? At 22 and 23 years of age, he was playing regularly for AZ and scoring tons of goals. His very good play there is what got him the "big" move to Sunderland just before turning 24, which we all know went awry. But in no way was Jozy a bust from 20-24. Haji Wright is arguably ahead of his timeline? That is just ridiculous talk.
Jozy had also just come off of rave reviews at 20 in the World Cup. Read any game recap, they are full of praise at the young #9. People have goldfish memory. https://www.browardpalmbeach.com/ne...doesnt-score-in-us-draw-with-slovenia-6465889 Altidore Dominates, Doesn't Score, in U.S. Draw with Slovenia | New ...
I understand that, but the skill sets are completely different. Morales can hang with the best, in his best position. That is different than saying Morales can hang with the best no matter how you use him. Holmes is playing with and against guys who are on their way or coming back from the EPL. Right now, he is one of the better players in the Championship. We don't have many CAMs in the pool. I'd put Ledezma in there before Morales. Just a nit pick, but that is what this thread is for ;-)
You are sort of correct and I got the timeline wrong. Jozy had 2 good seasons at AZ at 22-23. He was awful at 24-26 for Sunderland and then moved to MLS. He did nothing from 19-22 after decent success in MLS. So, not 20-24 but 19-22, sorry. Sargent is 19, going to be 20 this month. At this time, Altidore was sitting on the bench at best for Villareal. At 20 he went to Xerex and didn't play. He then went to Hull at 21 and scored 1 goal in 28 appearances. He then did nothing at Buraspor and moved to AZ. Wright is 21. Jozy was at Hull doing nothing. Wright has scored in the Bundesliga but could not catch on with Schalke. He has moved to Holland, just like Jozy at 22. He has not had success yet, but if he starts scoring, he is ahead of Altidore's timeline. But, unlike Jozy, he has not had success in Holland. But the timelines aren't crazy different and nobody even thinks of Wright anymore. Sargent is at the age when Jozy started doing nothing for 3 years. But Josh is playing major minutes and has scored sporadically for a bad team. Neither Josh nor Wright have actually played on a team as good in their league as AZ was when Jozy was there. They are both playing for teams more like Hull or Sunderland with Jozy. We won't even mention what Dempsey was doing at 19 and Zardes was playing for the Roadrunners of Cal State. Sargent is so far ahead of these other USMNT players as to be laughable. He could regress, but any step forward and he basically is in a conversation with McBride as the only American #9s with Top 4 success. Of course, McBride was 32.
You can not just ignore actual tournament performance for the USMNT on the USMNT forum. Jozy @ 20 played great for the team that we actually support in the actual World Cup. Why should I care about Hull?
Steffen or Horvath in place of ol' Polar Bear and we got a deal: a lineup looking to the future. Although that CB pair would get carved up in Qatar.
Jozy was more highly rated and had accomplished much more as a pro at club and international level than either of them by 21, including scoring against Spain in the Confederations Cup. He was already a force in MLS, WCQ and even the World Cup. All Sargent and Wright have done is beat-up on the Regionallia which Americans have been doing for years, from Conor Casey to Terrence Boyd; I've seen nothing to indicate Sargent's (and definitely Wright) is at the level Jozy was. Sargent and Wright have better club situations at the same age, which is a good thing all around. It doesn't mean they are better players, however (it's not like getting off the bench for Werder is the same as even making it to the bench of Villareal, but I guess to the uninitiated, they are both the same "major league" level) That's a common reasoning fallacy made around here. Remains to be seen if they end up ever being as effective as Jozy (looking pretty doubtful in Wright's case, tho).
Claudio's boy is now in my 18....for competitive matches. It would be interesting to see if the Nats were in communication with him for the January camp. I could see that conversation with BVB initiating an opportunity for Giovanni to get some more minutes on the field with the full BVB team. For me, Giovanni Reyna is now part of the core group from here forward. Players who can pull a rabbit out of a hat are always useful, especially when needing a sub to come on and create opportunities. He starts centrally against nations that are less of a threat to beat us, and he is subbed on the wing if he doesn't start.
"everyone" expected him to be the starting striker the second he turned 18. thats not an exageration. so start with the initial bubble pop of reality. yes, bremen is garbage now. theyve sold off their useful players in the @3 years sarge has been with them to get there from "decent". so theres a vaguely bait-and-switch feel to the whole situation. so while he was overrated by amarican fans in the beginning, coming into this year it was much more realistic that he could be in the mix. heres the most important part, imo- hes "earned" very little time. look, i dont know what goes on in training, the managers thinking etc but he was getting short sub appearances sporadically early in the year. not a problem for me. hes young. playing- even a little, even on a horrible bund team, is playing for a bund team. but he hasnt progressed (still meaning earning a spot/minutes). there was no breakthough- his playing time only increased due to injuries. they regularly had 3-4 attackers over over roughly the second-fourth months of the season. in the time since theyve bought 2 new attackers and he hasnt even seen small minutes as theyve been brought in. and the fact is he never produced. without looking a couple of goals and four assists over 4 months of sub appearances and a stretch of 7, 8 starts? so- a guy who hasnt earned regualr minutes, got a stretch due to injuries and didnt make enough of a case, the team brought in players at his spot they hope will produce more. other than belief in his potential what reason is there to be particularly up on him? and i cant speak for anyone else, but for me its more a case of not good than bad. its his own fault really, scoring like a damn machine at youth levels. its our fault for thinking that either scales up continuously or means anything to bremen in terms of putting out a team to get as many points as possible right now.
He just turned 17 and is still available for the U20 WC and U23 Olympic Team... I think he is far too along to play for the U20s now and I don't really see the point but I could see value in him being the focal point for the U23 squad during O qualifications. That being said, I would love for him to get a shot at playing now for the USMNT... he is just that talented.... and it is looking more and more like BVB will not want to release him for the games necessary to play in the Olympic Qs. Can you envision a lineup where he plays a false 9?... since we have relatively little talent at the true striker position? What would a VERY young starting lineup look like w/o a true #9? Cannon - Brooks - Miazga/Long - A. Robinson Holmes - Adams - Dest Morris - Gio - CP or even younger.... CP - Gio - Llanez
Reyna looks better to me at BVB than he ever did playing with US compatriots of the same age. Just me but he's proving he's not too young to move in with the big boys. It's early but I wouldn't discount it.
He's a physically big kid at 6' and with some meat on the bone. For many teenagers, physical development is the hold-up. Playing with the big boys is a meat grinder. Reyna does not have to wait to develop physically...he can manage right now.
Didn't he just start the first two or three matches after the winter break? And came on for 45 mins in the pokal match against dortmund?
Because Josh Sargent was 11 then? I don't know what to tell you. The USA, with Jozy as the striker for most of the Hex, failed to qualify for the World Cup when Sargent was 17, so he didn't get a chance to go and not score a goal like Jozy at 20. The point is that Jozy was having a worse club career than Sargent is now and turned out fine. Try and keep up.
Again, not Sargent's fault the USA did not qualify for the 2018 World Cup. Kinda Jozy's fault. Jozy can hardly be said to "be a force in the World Cup" as he has never scored a goal in that competition. Jozy barely scored in the last Hex, just in one of the games he played did he score. If he had accomplishments it is because Bradley and Klinsman started him in spite of his lack of club minutes. Maybe that faith helped him come good later. Should show the same to Josh. Nobody is bashing Jozy. This is just history. Nobody is saying any of these players is better than the other. The point is that at a similar age, Jozy's career was in the dumpster and he still came good. Have patience. BTW, I don't think Villareal is a super bigger level than Bremen. Bremen is having a bad year, but they finished 8th last year.
When Altidore transferred to Villarreal, they had just finished 2nd in La Liga, and made the Champions League quarterfinals his first season there. That was a tough team to break into as a 17 year old.
Jozy is basically finished. He's older, always injured, and simply not that good (he scored in one game in the Hex, when we didn't qualify). Sargent is playing in the Bundesliga, and has already scored more goals than Jozy in a big 4 league despite playing far less matches. I get our talent isnt great. But the arguments for sticking with Jozy are so weak. Sargent is probably the better player currently, and even if anyone argues that, it's pretty close, and he is improving while Jozy is not. We've so quickly become jaded with high end talent playing on high end sides, that we think a 19 year old playing regularly in the Bundesliga isn't impressive. It is. And he needs to be starting for the US.
One of the large issues with Jozy is he can’t play 90. He’s not good enough to start and force your hand in a sub. If you want him in the 23 and have him as a late game sub then I’m all for it but I just don’t see how you can start someone who isnt capable of going 90 at a higher level.
IMO Steffen Dest Long Brooks Cannon Adams Mckennie Reyna Pulisic Jozy/Sargent Morris I’m fine with Jozy or Sargent at this point. Reyna in the midfield provides enough sauce and creativity that I think we can move CP outside permanently. I was skeptical of Morris when he was brought back in but he’s undeniably been very good of late. This lineup has enough talent and youth that it gives me more optimism about the now and future than I’ve had in a long time. Reyna could be such a key addition in helping to solve our years long midfield crisis.