US versus Costa Rica 2-1-20: Post Game Thread(R)

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Lloyd Heilbrunn, Feb 2, 2020.

  1. Bite o' the Cherry

    Charlotte FC
    United States
    May 3, 2006
    Charlotte, NC, USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I have to beg to differ. Hard core fans don't need to be 'won back'. Only casual ones do, ones for whom winning and success outweigh the colors on the crest.

    I saw energy and skill last night, pressing, and making incisive combinations, from a bunch of youngsters, none of whom anyone would pencil into the first 11.
    Perhaps a positive take suggests having to give begrudging credit to the gaffer, an act too obviously distasteful for the supposed "hardcore" fans.
     
  2. Cynical US fan

    United States
    Mar 30, 2017
    Boston
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I haven't and won't watch a single USMNT game until Berhalter is dismissed, or stops playing his shameful "system." Ugh.
     
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  3. lmorin

    lmorin Member+

    Mar 29, 2000
    New Hampshire
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He's already stopped playing the "system" and, frankly, it never really was played because Adams was never made the be all, end all right back. Moreover, Berhalter has recently stated that it has always been the plan to play Adams as a midfielder. And, for what it is worth, "shameful" is a ridiculous descriptor when a) it was never fully employed and (2) certainly never even attempted with the best players the US can presently provide. Yours is a "cut off your nose to spite your face" attitude, IMHO.
     
  4. napper

    napper Member+

    Jan 14, 2014
    Fullerton
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Agreed.
     
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  5. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It shouldn't be this hard to get any report from the closed door game(s) earlier in camp. Would expand the sample significantly beyond the one solitary match to make an evaluation from.

    Who scored and assisted on the 2 goals against Elfsborg, played, and kept the clean sheet?

    @Eighteen Alpha relayed Turner was the second coming of Peter Schmeichel from the scrimmage. My disappointment from this camp was he didn't play v. Costa Rica. Instead it was wasted on Johnson, as if he's a viable alternative to Steffen, which we need. That was my most important objective for this camp: exploration at that position, namely w/ Turner.
     
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  6. TOAzer

    TOAzer Member+

    The Man With No Club
    May 29, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So "He Never Played The System Because The System Doesn't Exist Unless Adams Plays Right Back. General Egg Said Adams Was to Play Right Back, But He Always Meant Midfield. So General Egg May Have Had a System, But He Never Meant to Have a System. Ergo "Shameful" is a Ridiculous Descriptor". "

    Brilliant, Imorin, brilliant.
     
  7. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #33 rgli13, Feb 2, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2020
    lots in inaccuracies here. berhalter WAS set on adams as hybrid rb/dm- nine months of quotes support that. its where he played adams in his only cap last year, and he used lima in that position/role til summer. berhalter has reitterated his intention to play adams there as recently as the first set of nations league matches which was what, sept? oct?

    it was only due to the emergence/commitment, respectively, of cannon and dest that berhalter ended that aspect of "the system" (during the gold cup, for timeline purposes). he only committed (at least in quotes) to using adams as a cm in pre-jan camp press. literally a few weeks ago.

    that hybrid rb/dm position- along with a stay-at-home lb/lcb (primarily ream) made up the entirety of "the system" in terms of positioning on the pitch. cannons emergence during the gold cup led to a "flattening" of the backline, if you will.

    so technically yes, "the system" is over, save a non-defensive 6 (imo- call it a regista all you want) behind two 8s we are supposed to call 10s. the "group" has very slowly evolved, though theres a strong argument trapp is the only real subtraction while weve added exactly 2 "regular" players (im defining as more than 2 caps under berhalter) who werent in jan camp last year: dest and boyd, both dual internationals.

    what remains are berhalters "principles": playing out of the back as a starting point, using possession to "unsettle" opponents rather than direct play/any effort to penetrate defenses and token, positional "pressing".

    i still colloquially refer to all that together (the on field, positional "system" to accomodate bradley, the "group" and "the principles") as "the system", so its just a matter of semantics.

    so ill ask- how much credit should we give him for decisions he didnt actually make? if adams werent injured where would he have played for us over the last year? we can wildly speculate, i guess, or we could take him at his repeated (and again, fairly recent) word. that was inarguably the intention, and no- it wasnt immediately abandoned.

    and in that scenario would cannon have even been brought into the team, not fitting berhalters intended team/style of play?

    this is like the whole "he HAS added to his (original jan camp) 'group'" argument- by counting our absolute no-brainer euro players who obviously couldnt be in jan camp.

    so really, how much has he changed? circumstance dictated the end of "the system", not berhalter. and im supposed to marvel at his evolution, coming to the startling conclusion that tyler adams is, maybe, after all a cm? thats like saying driving on a donut after you get a flat is a shrewd correction in travel plans.
     
  8. swedust

    swedust Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    FWIW I thought Aaronson was effective positionally, given his first cap + covering a lot for the LB (whose name escapes me) a fair amount.

    Overall agree with the general assessment that it's a bit of a day late and dollar short to see Egg use young/emerging players but better late than never.

    Much more focused on Olympic qualifying than the "full" USMNT for at least the next few months.
     
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  9. HouseHead78

    HouseHead78 Member+

    Oct 17, 2006
    Austin, TX
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No one told you to marvel at anything. No one cares what you think, much less if you “marvel” or not. Sop putting words in other posters mouths to escalate an imaginary argument to justify your endless stream of insipid keyboard vomit.
     
  10. Ghost

    Ghost Member+

    Sep 5, 2001
    I do wonder if Uly is going to be a Lletget type, who could play at the top level but doesn't have the athleticism, and never gets a real chance. But he has a lot of what it takes. That puts him in the teenage mix.
     
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  11. Ghost

    Ghost Member+

    Sep 5, 2001
    Oh, and I was pleased with the showing, for the most part, at least among the players.
     
  12. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    do you agree that "it ("the system") never really was played", or that "it has always been the plan to play Adams as a midfielder"?

    how exactly is pointing out that we that we did, in fact, play the first six matches of last year in "the system" or the many, many times berhalter himself (up until @4 months ago) said he intended to play adams as a hybrid rb/dm arguing, much less escalating an imaginary one?

    i could definitely be more succinct, though.
     
  13. Eighteen Alpha

    Eighteen Alpha Member+

    Aug 17, 2016
    Club:
    Stoke City FC
    To be fair, I didn’t see how he did the rest of the month.
     
  14. Pragidealist

    Pragidealist Member+

    Mar 3, 2010
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  15. TOAzer

    TOAzer Member+

    The Man With No Club
    May 29, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    "Insipid keyboard vomit". The Head of The House knows himself.
     
  16. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    We won't know if Gregg has really changed anything from 2019 until maybe September. The last game against Canada was a departure from the rest of 2019 and the biggest change in that game was the defense. Unlike the passive 4-4-2 mid-block of most of 2019, it was a coordinated press in a 4-3-3 type shape. In this game, we saw some good coordinated pressing and a 4-3-3 defensive shape.

    So, possibly the one thing we could have looked for that 2019 was deemed a failure and things needed to change, we did see.

    The player call ups are hard to tell. The Olympics are a huge distraction and is probably the reason so many U23s were in this squad and playing.

    A more symmetrical attack with the LB getting forward as much as the RB was a big change from "The System". Vines was not good really, imo. The Scuffed guys liked him, but most seem to be where I am, he got forward but did nothing of value. There is no reason to call Lovitz back ever with Vines. If we are playing with actual LBs in attack, we need to see Robinson and more of Dest there. Again, that is a question that might be answered in March.

    Considering the 4 weeks Gregg had with the team, the set piece defending was atrocious. This is now becoming a thing with GB, the better the team looks in one phase of the game the worse it looks in another. We cannot defend set pieces like that. It wasn't the kids either. Lletget and Cannon were routinely losing marks and falling asleep.

    Trapp, Roldan, Djorde all looked good last Cupcake in the game(s). Baird and Lovitz looked ok. Have to keep that in mind with everyone that looked good yesterday. The CR team this year was probably better than anything we faced last year, but is still not a high level of competition.

    I thought Gasper and Servania were completely lost. First I've seen of Chase, but expected Servania to look competent.
     
  17. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    Llanez was far from perfect but was also one of the better players out there. Kind of puts the sword to the idea of "first team minutes". If anything we've seen from the USMNT, U17WC, and U20WC; it is that MLS minutes is not a marker of anything.

    Guys with thousands of MLS minutes have looked worse than U19 kids in all three teams. Guys with thousands of MLS minutes have looked much better than guys with even more MLS minues. MLS minutes is just not a predictor of quality at this time.

    The slow walk on U21 talent in favor of MLS lifers will, in hindsight, be the biggest mistake of Gregg's tenure. He has time to fix it, but tick tock tick tock.
     
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  18. CeltTexan

    CeltTexan Member+

    Sep 21, 2000
    Houston, TX USA
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Decent team cohesion and some good link up for the most part.
    Well struck PK, looked so calm, collected and old hat for such a young man.
    Always a good day when the U.S.A. can defeat our old "sombra negra" rival, our long time "thorn in our side" team, our not Mexico rivalry but the team we have a solid rivalry for decades and always have a struggle with.

    I heard on the broadcast that there is Olympic qualifying and 60% of Qatar2022 WCQ for our guys are all in 2020. So this year has our boys at a precipice. Get it done Coach!

    VAMO' U.S.A.!!!
     
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  19. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    Vines was weak. Ball kept going down their right side. Is there no one who can play LB?

    And can we please please have wing backs learn to play defense first?
     
  20. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    it is in fact set up where with 2 qualis in sept oct nov, 6/10 of the quali will be done this year. march is really the last chance to take a peek.
     
  21. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    #47 juvechelsea, Feb 3, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2020
    i don't think we quit playing the system, there would be periods we would try to play up the middle out of the back including a near miss. they just had easier opposition and perhaps have been released to just clear the ball or play it wide if pressured. we also weren't trying to play it out through bradley roldan etc.

    the problem with that being that when the money is on the table he reverts back to conventional, consensus disasters like yedlin brooks bradley roldan zardes etc.

    to me every time he goes to his B team he looks better. as shown against cuba etc. we perk up. except that was experiment or squad rotation. he goes back to the "A" next time we have a big game. the irony is that for a "transition" coach his selection is tilted conservative. if he had a brain he would pivot to the kids because they would make forcing "system" prettier and more palatable.
     
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  22. Cannons

    Cannons Member+

    May 16, 2005
    I think we've wasted around a year or more since our qualify fail. First in not naming GB right away and wasting time with Sarachan, and second, time wasted on guys that should never sniff a NAT game or that will be too old the next time around. Now he runs a youth camp cupcake and the friendly we saw looked good. So he has some good young players there.... maybe he should have called them in earlier but the real question is what will he do in the next friendlies? For me, the answer is a mix of some of the ones he has been using, mixed with the ones we've just seen. We do not need guys like Bradley (hurt anyway) Jozy, Trapp (think hes done anyway, and others, including Zardes.... he should start building now with the new and younger guys. I might even start supporting him if I see some progress in this area.

    On another note ... listening to McHead talk.... its becoming more obvious to me that Tab was pushed out as he was likely not buying into their "total program" concept. He would have had to have become a GB sock puppet and it looks like he decided to say no thanks and moved on
     
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  23. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    #49 juvechelsea, Feb 3, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2020
    i think the hint tab got shoved out is he agreed to coach the dynamo. we have issues. he may have wanted to chase the senior team job and felt they weren't biting without a pro resume. but we aren't a good showcase. he should have waited. but the coach whose job you are angling for may not work on your timescale. at which point any port in a storm.

    i also think that "these tactics are your best medicine" might not be extricable from "empire building." dubious tactics, dubious coaching choice, centralization of coaches, homogenization of YNTs to tactics. one reading is we want to change how we play. another is a set of people have taken control and are remaking the world in their desired image. klinsi tried the same thing so at a point it's like, woah, hoss, who wants me to homogenize and centralize, and what good are their tactics? what are the values of your empire.

    for a team with an ostensible missionary goal of system change we sure went tepid with the leadership choices. go get a world class coach and maybe we buy in. you're telling me berhalter has the seeds to the money tree and to salt my own fields. with a mid table history in a decent league this is unconvincing. even before we took the field and struggled.

    and to people who say this takes time, when JK decided for a period we would spread out and knock it around, we were doing it almost immediately and then getting upsets within months. i feel condescended to with the attitude i don't get it and it takes time. normally if you have the money tree bills start to sprout soon enough. we look a lot better on the field. we get upsets. objective hints it's working. january camp is a poor test of this, but where are the objective manifestations?

    i also think if you sign a midtable value coach and he deploys an unwinning dutch style, and we're taking risks, the onus should be on them to provide results. if you want trust me, hire a bigger name, using the latest winning strategies. if LAG had hired GB as there was talk, i assume he would have been on a short leash. i don't get how the leash gets longer with a tougher job.
     
  24. Cannons

    Cannons Member+

    May 16, 2005
    #50 Cannons, Feb 3, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2020
    Totally agree on the lack of reports and on Turner. As a Rev fan I see him every week and he's amazing but we have all seen how once GB has a fav.... its hard for anyone else to break in. For me, this is the main reason I do not like GB and the main reason I think he will fail in the long run. His inability to just move past players he likes is a major problem. Zardes, Trapp, Bradley, Jozy, Lovitz, Roldan to name a few. There are others. The upcoming friendlies, against better teams, will show where GB is now. Will he clean house and start fresh or will he continue with that same ones that failed before???
     
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