Pre-match: The inevitable war with Iran

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by Q*bert Jones III, Jun 21, 2019.

  1. Q*bert Jones III

    Q*bert Jones III The People's Poet

    Feb 12, 2005
    Woodstock, NY
    Club:
    DC United
    I think it's appropriate now to start a discussion about circumcision.
     
  2. VFish

    VFish Member+

    Jan 7, 2001
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Why, are you out of chewing gum?
     
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  3. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They are a lot like Trump in many ways.
     
  4. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    The official US position was:
    1- After the strike: No Americans were "harmed" by Iran's missile strike. And there was 'minor damage' from the strike, a 'helicopter' was damaged.
    2- Later: Acknowledgment of some of the physical damage done by the missiles, after satellite imagery had already left no doubts about it. with the Pentagon eventually allowing journalists to visit the base.
    3- Last Week: 11 US servicemen were flown to Germany and Kuwait for concussion related injuries out of an "abundance of caution".
    4- Today: 34 US servicemen were diagnosed with traumatic brain injury; 9 still receiving treatment in Germany and 8 flown from Germany to the US for further treatment.

    The official Iranian position was/is:

    1- Iran was not targeting US soldiers in the strike, but instead "the US drone operation and command centre at the Ain al-Asad air base", specifically hitting "the headquarters of the US's drone operation, the Apache helicopters’ repair shed and maintenance centre, the Boeing CH-47 Chinook helicopters’ ramp and hangar, and the ramps used for the V-22 Osprey tiltrotors and Super Hercules aircraft."

    2- While not specifically targeting US soldiers, US casualties would have been inevitable. Iran has "documented" proof of US servicemen flown out of Iraq by C-130 planes for treatment.

    That position has been repeated, but never changed. Initial reports in Iranian media (no longer reported) about the actual number of deaths or casualties, citing anonymous sources, were never part of Iran's "official position" on the issue.

    As for how the Pentagon's latest acknowledgment on the issue (reported not just by CNN), is being reported by Iranian government media:

    https://www.presstv.com/Detail/2020...ed-concussion,-brain-injury-in-Iranian-strike
    34 US troops suffered concussion, brain injury in Iranian strike: Pentagon

    p.s.
    To be fair, there are propaganda reports in Iran as well. One report, citing Iraqi media, claims that 4 deaths caused by the missile strikes have been covered up by the Pentagon, with the deaths being attributed to some recent incidents in Germany and Afghanistan.
     
  5. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    While I consider this propaganda for now, and stress the report about it in Iran is basically reporting what other (anti-US) media elsewhere have claimed and is NOT Iran's official position, I decided to run down and see what "incidents" were these reports referring to? One of them, reporting 2 deaths in Germany, appears a bit suspicious. The other, 2 recent deaths of US soldiers in Afghanistan, doesn't look suspicious and appears to have been what is being reported by the US.

    The one that was a bit suspicious was this one:

    https://www.thelocal.de/20200113/two-us-airmen-found-dead-at-germany-military-base
    UPDATE: Two US airmen found dead at Germany military base

     
  6. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Well that is because they were a real band, before the video era, who built a huge following based off radio play and touring. Literally faces for radio ;)

    I don't disagree that they looked very goofy in their video work, especially Eddie with his odd duck face :p
     
  7. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    This topic is pretty strongly in my anorak wheelhouse. The arrival of MTV in 1983 began to completely change how music was promoted. Van Halen famously hated videos and were bad at it.

    Everyone is of course very familiar with the new romantic innovators who kind of invented the medium - many of that first wave were english. But the opportunity was swiftly spotted to broaden out the audience from all the Duran Duran/Madonna stuff to "rock"

    The first bands like this were Bon Jovi etc in 1984, closely followed by a string of cookie cutter bands like Def Leppard. Bon Jovi cynically pivoted for the TV sound. Peak stupidity was reached with GnR but that's already the late 80s. At that time of course, MTV had already decided to mainstream "proper" metal (Metallica etc)

    So while I agree all these bands have the same look/genre, Van Halen belong to the previous radio/stadium era and adapted quite poorly to the rise of video.

    The 1984-1990 bands you mention are the wave of commercialisation of that look for television.

    That's why Jon Bon Jovi became the pinup star for the 12 year old girls in my class rather than Eddie Van Halen

    I appreciate this is getting way anorak but Rob Tennenbaum's "Video killed the radio star" is absolutely fascinating on this topic.
     
  8. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Again this gets anorak, but for the record companies, the rise of MTV completely changed how music was marketed. Before MTV a "video" for a band might get played once. The record companies didn't spend money on them. What was the point?

    Of course it was still possible for hardworking bands to tour and build an audience via radio play etc after 1983

    What was new was the opportunity for a band like Bon Jovi to explode in a very short space of time via the TV medium.

    Bon Jovi was all about the mass commercial exploitation of the "hair band" look via a pretty boy band. They didn't invent "hair band". They took it to the youth market via what swiftly became the critical medium.

    This is why within the video industry, Poison, Winger etc was regarded as a joke era.

    Ridiculous bands, hyped up for teen girls, as supposed "bad boys"
     
  9. Mani

    Mani BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 1, 2004
    Club:
    Perspolis
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    I think we can all agree that this is the best rock band of all time. :D

     
  10. VFish

    VFish Member+

    Jan 7, 2001
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Atlanta
    If you are keeping score, General Soleimani is still dead and 11 US soldiers had headaches and were flown Tokyo for a little R&R.... oh, and there was one nose bleed. So much for WWIII.
     
  11. xtomx

    xtomx Member+

    Chicago Fire
    Sep 6, 2001
    Northern Wisconsin, but not far from civilization
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Yes, the US murdered an Iranian official and military major general in cold blood.
    Iran has not murdered any American officials or military leaders in cold blood.
     
  12. VFish

    VFish Member+

    Jan 7, 2001
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Atlanta
    We didn't murder him. We took a chess piece off the board. How would you classify the hundreds upon hundreds that the 'General' has on his bloody hands?
     
  13. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    I am sure a lot of Americans (especially veterans and those are serving) will take offense at your spin on the issue, but (like Trump) you can't even get the basic facts right.

    On the facts, as confirmed by the latest Pentagon version of the 'truth', 34 US soldiers were diagnosed with traumatic brain surgery. 9 are still being treated in Germany and 8 more have been flown to the US for additional treatment.

    https://apnews.com/ef01f370471f00bbd8b2900492962189
    AP FACT CHECK: Trump’s false assurance about troops in Iraq
    p.s.
    As for "WWIII", take that with those who believed the US would start a war with Iran if Iran retaliated and attacked US forces. My position has always been that the US has no good military options against Iran. Even if Iran's attack had caused a dozen fatalities on the US side, at most, the US would simply respond with a few missiles with a message that it isn't interested in expanding the fight. Iran would also hit back and someone would ultimately have to back down. My money would be on the US backing down, but that is not because Iran is the stronger party. But because, unlike the US, Iran is fighting a war of necessity while for the US this is a war of choice. One the US would like to fight "on the cheap" (i.e., cause an implosion in Iran, using economic sanctions etc to cause the fifth column to find enough "volunteers" for the job).

    p.s.s.
    As for the "chess" analogy, the 'checkmate' in this game happens when either the US succeeds with its "implosion" plan against Iran or, alternatively Iran evicts the US from Iraq and Afghanistan et al and remains the center for the 'axis of resistance'. Even if General Soleimani was a "queen" in this chess game, you can sometimes find yourself checkmated looking to take a Queen and losing sight of the actual objective of the game.
     
  14. stanger

    stanger BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 29, 2008
    Columbus
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Iran has been directly responsible, through Soleimani, for the deaths of hundreds of US personnel. To characterize his death as murder in cold blood isn’t fair to all of those that he is responsible for killing.
     
  15. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Are we really going to pretend that the US dont participate in proxi wars?

    What is that US personnel doing in the middle east anyways? I mean who's on who's backyard here?
     
  16. Moishe

    Moishe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Boca Juniors
    Argentina
    Mar 6, 2005
    Here there and everywhere.
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Don’t be an ass. Headaches and one nose bleed? As survivors some of those troops are going to have to deal with some form of PTSD which will make a concussion seem like nothing.
     
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  17. Moishe

    Moishe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Boca Juniors
    Argentina
    Mar 6, 2005
    Here there and everywhere.
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    This might be the most unaware post in this thread. Of course this could easily be interpreted by virtue of your own words that US boots on the ground don’t matter since they weren’t officials or leaders.
     
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  18. stanger

    stanger BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 29, 2008
    Columbus
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I’m not pretending anything.

    Soleimani was killed because of that proxy war, the same as our soldiers have been.

    I would bring all US forces home from everywhere if it was up to me, but to say the killing of Soleimani was any different than anyone else that has been killed serving their country is wrong.
     
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  19. Timon19

    Timon19 Member+

    Jun 2, 2007
    Akron, OH
    Jesus Christ, just stop this. You sound just like when everyone here parrots some Tweet from a Very Important Journalist, which every other Very Important Journalist is also saying in nearly identical phraseology.

    It was an assassination. Full stop.

    Here you have a point...
    ...so the implication here is that some lives are worth more than others, which so very much fits the mentality and indeed revealed preferences of so many here.
     
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  20. Pønch

    Pønch Saprissista

    Aug 23, 2006
    Donde siempre
    The only difference is Soleimani was killed in a super manly, hi-tech way while the US personnel were cowardly attacked with crude bombs, amirite?
     
  21. Timon19

    Timon19 Member+

    Jun 2, 2007
    Akron, OH
    I see nothing in his post that indicates he believes that.
     
  22. Timon19

    Timon19 Member+

    Jun 2, 2007
    Akron, OH
    Is this addressing me?
     
  23. Pønch

    Pønch Saprissista

    Aug 23, 2006
    Donde siempre
  24. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    #1324 Robert Borden, Jan 25, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2020
    Proxy war (Iraq-Iran war) where the US supported Saddam use of chemical weapons on Iranian soldiers and blocked any UN resolutions to condemn that.

    Real "manly"...:rolleyes:

    Why letting others doing the butchering then? If so manly, invade yourself
     
  25. Timon19

    Timon19 Member+

    Jun 2, 2007
    Akron, OH
    "Proxy"
     

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