The All-Encompassing Pro/Rel Thread on Soccer in the USA

Discussion in 'Soccer in the USA' started by bigredfutbol, Mar 12, 2016.

  1. KCbus

    KCbus Moderator
    Staff Member

    United States
    Nov 26, 2000
    Reynoldsburg, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    By the way, in preparation for this argument, I went and looked at the fixture list for the Premier League at the end of the season. For the final ten matchdays, ALL the matches are scheduled for simultaneous kickoffs. Is this customary that they're listed that way at first, and as they draw closer, some match times are adjusted, or are they really having simultaneous kickoffs for two months?
     
  2. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I believe they're listed that way until the TV schedules are determined (which unlike in U.S. Sports are only done a month or so ahead of time).
     
  3. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    Certainly seems to apply to you.
     
  4. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    I think it's more than that; maybe three rounds of scheduling in total?
     
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  5. KCbus

    KCbus Moderator
    Staff Member

    United States
    Nov 26, 2000
    Reynoldsburg, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No, actually your problem is that I read what you actually write.
     
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  6. HailtotheKing

    HailtotheKing Member+

    San Antonio FC
    United States
    Dec 1, 2008
    TEXAS
    Club:
    San Antonio Scorpions FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The single direct source ... no. A synergistic element to the issues facing many clubs? An exacerbating agent? YUP

    Given that shit owners exist in pro/rel we know how shit owners behave when there is a "penalty" for failure and the "reward" of the parachute it entails.

    To him though, it is. Our games really mean something as well. There's nothing "friendly" about qualifying for the playoffs. Sure, to you the stakes aren't there ... that doesn't mean they aren't to anyone else.

    2011-2012 ManU was better than City ...

    So in pro/rel they're "lucky" ... but in non pro/rel structures they're condemned.

    You literally just showed the selective application of principle of this concept. Bravo.

    They won a knockout competition against better overall competition. The better teams and more pressure packed environment, one would say, DOES make them better.

    Then that needs to be applied to our system as well.

    In your opinion. Some folks think the better way to determine the best team is to have the best teams duke it out ...

    1/3 left in the season? That'd put it at matchday 25/26 .... I'm willing to bet that on either the 25th or 26th match day there is at least ONE match where REALISTICALLY <-------- not your sordid reasoning, but REALISTICALLY there's at least ONE match that honestly doesn't mean a damn thing.

    They aren't meaningless though ... they're qualifiers for the Championship Playoff tournament. Unless you're saying that the matches Man City are now playing are pointless even though they're to keep standing to qualify for Europe's Championship Playoff.

    And honestly, what is Man City playing for now? They sit THIRD in the Prem 14pts off the title and 13pts safely in CL qualification. Just saying.
     
  7. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    That's not obvious from your clueless responses which are merely attacks on a poster with different opinions to yours.
     
  8. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    11 out the 12 matches on the final day of the 2019 MLS season had something at stake.
     
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  9. KCbus

    KCbus Moderator
    Staff Member

    United States
    Nov 26, 2000
    Reynoldsburg, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You really do live in your own little world.
     
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  10. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    "There you go again".
     
  11. An Unpaved Road

    An Unpaved Road Member+

    Mar 22, 2006
    Club:
    --other--
    Because playoff races aren't friendly, and the regular season is required effort for getting to a stage to contend for a championship. In other words, don't celebrate until the job is actually done. And in a playoff system the regular season is still part of the job even if it's not where the title is decided.
     
  12. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Notts County can finish 7th this season and still win one of two promotion slots. I guess that makes the regular season pretty worthless.
     
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  13. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    #25388 M, Jan 5, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2020
    They’re 9 points out of the automatic promotion spot with 17 games left, so... no.
     
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  14. Well, let's presume they're at a given moment in spot 7 and out of reach of number 8. What's that given moment going to be?
    upload_2020-1-6_14-30-0.png
    Stockport has 45 points from 30 matches. If they keep that avg of 1.5 points a match they will end with 75 points. So Notts County still has to score 30 points to be sure they end up 7th, which means they have the whole track to perform as if these matches matter. No friendlies for them. Besides that it doesnot guarantee them they will promote, which's the real aim, not the play off.
    In mls the play off is secured by several teams way before in leagues like that of Notts things are decided.
    So in mls whole spades of the league matches become meaningless faster than in low leagues like this one in a P/R setting.
     
  15. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yep. Thank goodness for playoffs. The team finishing 7th can get promoted on merit.
     
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  16. Anyway, the ridiculous way the mls competition is set up with clubs having advantage of playing home against rivals, without those having an equal opportunity of home advantage would be impossible to sell over here.
    Just imagine one of the Manchester clubs having the advantage of the match at home, or in Liverpool with Everton/Liverpool etc.
    That this isnot an issue shows that the league isnot a serious competition format.
     
  17. At least the merit of having played both home and away, unlike the faulty mls/USA league formats.
     
  18. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Doesn't that happen in Cup competitions though? The FA and League Cups are knockout competitions after all.
     
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  19. Nobody over here would accept that for instance Ajax would get the advantage of home matches against PSV and Feyenoord, as this would be an unfair home advantage for them.
     
  20. Yup, that's why these are called ko competitions where upsets happen frequently and why these are popular because of that as the other side of the coin, the burst vs the marathon.
     
  21. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Are you referring to home advantage in single elimination playoffs that was introduced in 2019?

    It designed to make the regular season even more important. Now the team finishing 4th has a huge advantage over the team finishing 5th, which is how it should be.

    As far as I can tell it's been a very popular change with fans and the media. It also means the playoffs aren't spread out over two international breaks.
     
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  22. KCbus

    KCbus Moderator
    Staff Member

    United States
    Nov 26, 2000
    Reynoldsburg, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But that advantage isn’t given out as a result of a freaking coin toss. It’s an EARNED ADVANTAGE. It’s a reward for performance. The team that earned more points throughout the season hosts the playoff game.

    So I really couldn’t care less if “nobody over here” gets it or not. Win more games.
     
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  23. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ah. I think you mean the unbalanced schedule during the regular season. The league thinks fans should get to see every other team at least once every two, scratch that, it's now once every 3 years.

    It's common in other US sports.

    I think an evenly balanced schedule would be better but that way you'd have to have completely separate conferences that only meet in the MLS Cup final.

    I don't know if anyone is keeping a record but it seems that long haul flights give teams a huge disadvantage. Poor Vancouver have several 7 hour flights within their own "regional" conference and I guess Seattle and Portland do too.

    Add Austin and Nashville to the following Western Conference map.

    [​IMG]
     
  24. Dan Loney

    Dan Loney BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 10, 2000
    Cincilluminati
    Club:
    Los Angeles Sol
    Nat'l Team:
    Philippines
    I sometimes can't believe why most soccer leagues in the world leave so much money on the table not having a playoff determine their champion.

    Mexico isn't going back to the good old days anytime soon, that's for gosh-darned sure
     
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  25. You're talking about the PO phase, I was talking about the "regular"phase of the competition. So it's a double whammy when one has in the normal phase home advantage over rivals and as a result of that you more likely win and then that's called "merit" to "earn" more home advantage in the play off?
    Come on.
    Wonder if anybody ever made an analysis of the correlation between home advantage matches in the regular season and getting home advantage in the play off.
     

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