Where are you getting that weather info? Every site I've checked shows there to be a about a 9 degree Fahrenheit difference in average highs (and lows) between January and March. Whatever, not an extreme difference, but still the closest you get to the weather in December. I haven't looked at wind patterns or rain or anything else that might vary. But, cool, it's pro-MLS bias, that's the most likely reason to do a camp in Qatar in January. Is the "travel" argument the one where people have said "x player shouldn't travel from Germany to California to sit on the bench in x upcoming friendly for a 4-day international window"? While I disagree with those people, it's definitely different to fly halfway across the world, twice in less than a week, in the middle of your season than it is to do it spaced out by 3 weeks in your off season (for the vast majority of these guys, anyway).
My bad - I accidentally used daily lows. Here’s a website: https://weatherspark.com/y/105083/Average-Weather-in-Doha-Qatar-Year-Round November/December*: High: 78 Low: 64 march High: 78 Low: 62 january High: 71 Low: 57 are you sure that January is clearly the closest in temperature? * group stages will likely be done by end of november....
I think it is (was) mainly about getting used to and understanding logistics, surroundings, what is and isn’t available, etc. You want to hit the ground running when and if you make it.
it is, in terms of their growth. however it also underlines our selection conservatism that GB can't anticipate and ferret out himself which ones are "first team ready" but instead lags reality and waits for events such as these, formal promotions. eg sargent. as a result he will favor aaronson -- who starts on a first team -- over people who beat him to the U20s, who are more talented -- as a general consensus understanding of the pipeline -- just working through their more difficult pro systems. i am actually with the snobs that better prospects at more prestigious teams should be scouted ahead of worse prospects starting on easier teams -- to start. where i break with them is the career-long arguments they want to make even once there is national team "tape" on players. once you're capped actual performance replaces the scouting tool of where you play. what we're doing right now is perverse. you have this talent bubble coming up and it's sitting behind MLS starters, both lesser kids and veteran mediocrities.i wouldn't mind that if it's what NT field play showed but so many of these guys are on cap 0, 13 months into his term. and i am not saying aaronsons should be prevented from breaking in through things like camp cupcake. if they show well. but we brought him in on an international date ahead of his appropriate queue spot in terms of who was deemed the bigger U20 prospects.
Different websites have different information. It doesn't really matter one way or the other--there's not that much difference from one to the next. So I guess you're right then that this shows a clear MLS bias. There couldn't be any other reason to do this trip while you've got a 3 week camp instead of a 5 day one.
lol. First, you present a defense that’s proven wrong (weather). next, you move to a straw man and say that this alone shows a clear bias when I’ve consistently said that it’s part of a far larger trend of data (which you’ve not addressed). I’m fact, I specifically wrote that this alone isn’t a big deal but it’s the trend of disparate impact that is driving my belief. finally, you move into another argument entirely wrt length of camp. I’m more sympathetic to this as I think Klinsmann took a January camp to Brazil RIGHT before the World Cup. That being said, the WC group stage is about 10 days so not sure why 3 weeks is materially better than one week if logistics is the key reason for going. Other options for a Qatar camp include the U23 one held in late October for 10 days or an early women’s camp if it’s really about logistics and not our core players getting used to a foreign experience. Here’s my concern: we start to hear that certain MLS players should be in the WC squad simply because they’ve familiar with Qatar - it’s quite similar to what played out wrt 2019 and the remarkably consistent 2/3 MLS roster composition throughout the year.
This is probably why its on the east coast...easier for Salzburg to show up and easier for our Euro folks
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/us-soccer-cancels-qatar-camp_n_5e107afae4b0843d3612da5f Camp Cupcake will not be in Qatar.
It's not "proven wrong". I just gave up arguing it because, you're right, it's close enough that it doesn't really matter. But you're then trying to look 3 years down the road to what you think people's future responses will be, that "well, they are familiar with Qatar" (who gives a shit? Not me, for one). Stop arguing semantics. I didn't say that you said "this alone" shows MLS bias. But it's ludicrous to suggest that, somehow, having a camp in January in Qatar is yet another example of pro-MLS bias. This is a supremely weak argument and seems extremely paranoid and made up out of thin air. But, add it to your running list of things that prove completely undeserved pro-MLS bias. Eventually you'll have 100 items on that list, 4 of which are legitimate, but that list sure will look long! Regarding the length of time--why is 3 weeks better than 1--well, the length of time that the group stage takes has no bearing on how long it takes to figure out THE LOGISTICS OF MAKING IT HAPPEN. People have to go to scout the various possible training locations, hotels, transportation options--which have to be rented out long before the World Cup. None of that work has anything to do with the length of the tournament. Maybe I'm mistaken, but the USSF probably just want to be able to send their whole team on one big trip to see how it can work, and having more time to do that makes sense to me. Yes, they could have chosen any other team to make this trip with. Instead, they chose the team and the entire staff that will/would be playing and operating there in 2022. Why would the Women's team or Olympic team and related staff make any sense?
thanks for the info @Dr.Phil hopefully we can scrape together a couple or three closed matches and get as much out of the camp as possible. still curious if either wolfsburg or hobro have any problem with the increase in travel. it would only matter, i suppose, if we had an agreement already in place to release them before the costa rica match though- if it was always understood they were going to qatar to cali back home this actually reduces travel a bit. and one more note- assuming we can get the comp we need us soccer has handled this well. i almost never have positives to apply to those blockheads, but i agree completely with not making that trip and if we can pull it off while berhalter still gets what he wants out of the camp a tip of the hat is definitely in order... ...til all the regulars (plus late call-up lovitz) start (and go 90) vs costa rica. then its back to regularly scheduled programming.
You will argue anything to defend the USSF and MLS. In doing so, you make ridiculous mistakes, irrational arguments, and contradict yourself. "well, they are familiar with Qatar" (who gives a shit? Not me, for one)...... Instead, they chose the team and the entire staff that will/would be playing and operating there in 2022. Do you not give a shit or makes sense to send the team that will be playing there? If it made sense to send the team that will be playing there then why not send the one with our euro players that make up the majority of our starting line up. None of those things mentioned as logistics requires the players to be there and not sure why they would want to being doing "research" while trying to run a camp. It would make sense to first send a small group of staff to get an understanding. Then a short trip with whole team with some of the staff arriving early and/or staying behind afterwards to complete whatever is needed. Still not sure if you think it is or isnt important for the players to be there, but if it isnt, then sending another team, its staff, and the USMNT staff seems like the best way to iron out logistics.
Why would it make sense? You said it yourself: because it’s THE LOGISTICS OF MAKING IT HAPPEN. People have to go to scout the various possible training locations, hotels, transportation options. That happens irrespective of which teams go. Duh. I thought the point being made by you was that the trip was arranged to allow the logistical team a chance to familiarize themselves. If so, there are lots of other options beyond camp cupcake. So Which is it: is it really about Logistics (so bringing a cupcake team or a u23 or a women’s team doesn’t matter) or is it about the USMNT team? If it’s about the actual team familiarizing themselves with that environment then it’s particularly stupid to send a cupcake team. To simplify, let’s look at a couple of options: 1. Go for a week in march and include our core of Pulisic, Adams, Brooks, Weston, Dest and Steffen. The staff would get to scout the various possible training locations, hotels, transportation options and also check out all of the major logistical issues associated with international travel, set up, in country transportation and breakdown. Our core players could get some time in a foreign culture all while bonding together with limited distractions. 2. Go during Camp cupcake for a couple of weeks and exclude almost all of our european players including our core. you stated that its “the team and the entire staff that will/would be playing and operating there in 2022” but is it really going to be the “team” that’ll be there in 2022 without Pulisic, Adams, Brooks, Weston, Dest, Morales and Steffen? What benefits do these non-core-at-best players get that helps the USMNT? This question is completely separate from the logistical side of operations. the trade off them appears to be: - one additional week for the logistical staff, and that marginal week likely doesn’t change the key elements of transition (which occur in both scenarios) or the opportunity to scout the various possible training locations, hotels, transportation options In exchange for - getting our core players familiarized with each other and a new environment that they will hopefully be playing in 2022. so we lose out on the latter all for an additional week of logistics and you don’t see how that raises eyebrows at all? is it the same level of stupidity as Arena saying “there are people in MLS who play that position” to exclude a b1 player or Berhalter continuing Arena’s 2/3 roster threshold? nope but it’s certainly another case where a reasonable argument can be made that it’s questionable. when one flips a coin and it repeatedly comes up “heads”, one has to look at the independence of each activity and see that there’s something going on.
Just because you hate everything MLS and USSF-related, doesn't mean that I love them. I defend what deserves defending, and write my objections to what deserves it. Some things I'm neutral on. Where did I contradict myself here? I merely stated that, as opposed to the future posters that DHC1 suspects will say "well, they are familiar with Qatar, so that's why they should go to the World Cup", I don't give a shit who has been in Qatar for this camp (which, of course, will no longer be held there anyway). As for European based players or not, it doesn't matter which players would be there for a camp in Qatar. The whole team, as I stated, includes ALL THE SUPPORT STAFF THAT DEAL WITH THE LOGISTICS. The World Cup is 3 years off, and anyone on any roster right now gives nearly no indication who might be a final selection (especially with the players aging out and the youngsters coming up). There was, in fact, a small group that was sent early who are now returning to the US. Why are we arguing this? What's the big deal for you guys that January Camp was going to be in Qatar instead of March camp? Really? It's just anything to crap on USSF, or MLS, or Berhalter, in whatever order you prefer.
This is disingenuous. In post #175, I specifically said that Berhalter’s roster was encouraging. I also stated that trapp/Bradley was (and is) an open question and called the Qatar camp a chink in the wall that was annoying only as part of a bigger mosaic of clear bias. you jumped on the Qatar issue to argue that it’s ridiculous to say that there could be anything pro-MLS about it but have yet to respond whether one can even question March with core team vs Cupcake in January as being pro-MLS per post 214. and now, you’re asking why we’re arguing about it? Cmon.
Because this isn't a FIFA date, and clubs aren't obligated to release players for this camp. I don't understand why there is still a January camp at all.
I think he’s saying to wait until we have our european players available. I don’t mind cupcake - more exposure is better than less. I wish we had a european version as well. this become more important if we insist on a particular system - we need a deep pool of players who are familiar with the system. To be fair, I think the system is unbelievably stupid for this very reason.
If teams aren't mandated to release players to participate in this camp, what is the point? Why bring in players who aren't our nations best, and also realistically won't make the senior roster just to have a look? The friendlies during this camp aren't great competition either, as they are basically against reserve U23 teams. Why not use this time to scout players playing in meaningful club games? Surely Greg should be using this time to scout superior players in top leagues such as the English Championship, League One, League Two, the 2 Bundesliga, etc.
Some of these guys are #1 or #2 on our depth chart so having them in camp and not working out by themselves is good. Pretty sure we have scouts for this.
I've always felt the MacAward winner (who usually is headed for super draft in a few days anyway) should get an honorary call up to Jan camp. https://sbisoccer.com/2020/01/clemsons-robbie-robinson-wins-2019-mac-hermann-award Reason: You cant put college players on same (slo) track as non college players or you end up with one of those cya "generational talent gaps".
Apparently there's a US U20 camp next week; Thomas Roberts, Kevin Bonilla, and Dante Sealy are the #FCDallas call ups I'm hearing. #DTID— 3rd Degree (@3rdDegreeNet) January 4, 2020 BTW, sounds like we’re also having a U20 camp next week..... shiz is running like a top!