A coach wanders into a bar...

I hope these videos are up-to-date. I haven't looked at these since the latest changes.

https://www.ussoccer.com/referee-program/resource-center/online-training

 

I will watch this thread with interest.

You might get some different insights by posting the same question in the Coach forum. Here's an old thread there: https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/what-do-you-do-with-a-bad-ref.1726787/

 

I'll chime in.

TLDR: Refs come in wildy varying levels of age and skill, some are also in their 6th or 7th hour of reffing, please understand that.
Pre-season, tell your parents and repeat that YOU will deal with refs, they're not to talk to them.
If you have an issue, waiting till the half is best, be nice, frame everything as a question "help me understand", but know that you'll get a different reaction from everyone.
Constant communication with parents is key, send these videos, ask them to watch with their kids.
Foul recognition is as unique as our fingerprints, teach your kids to adjust. It sucks when a team is allowed to be far too rough, there's not much you can do. Teach them to adjust and it will help them in life.
BONUS: If a coach is super emotional and pissy with me, I'm really likely to ignore their pleas. Coaches don't know what I saw, so the ones that ask what I saw (NICELY) get a lot more traction.


POST:
I officiate a LOT, I mean A LOT of U8 through U12 matches. Obviously, there's a shortage of refs, but you have to be over 18 to ref a lot of these around here, so keep that in mind.

I get a lot of these matches because I've found the sweet spot in managing the kids/coaches/spectators in them. I get a lot of attaboys from parents and coaches, I tell them I'm good at it because the kids and I are on the same mental level, always gets a chuckle. A friend of mine calls me the "kid whisperer"; I have a knack for understanding and relating to kids, I guess. I think I do so well with them because I treat the lower-level stuff the same way I treat a High School Varsity playoff match. There's a saying in our community: It may not be the World Cup Final, but to the players, it is, so treat it like it is.

For the most part, especially with U10 and under games the threshold for fouls/handling etc... is pretty high. Kids tend to be super clumsy and lack the body control to avoid what would mostly be considered a foul for older kids. They tend to put themselves in positions to get tumbled over and generally spend a lot of time falling down and tripping over each other. Same goes for arms/hands up when defending or "dribbling" the ball.
Same goes for handling/handball; their hands are basically dragging on the ground to begin with, so avoiding ball contact is crazy hard. I'll really only call it if it's slapped out of the air volleyball style. 99.9% of "handling" at younger ages is poor reflexes, motor skills and a reaction to protect their faces. If it's a protective move and gives a crazy advantage, I'll call it.

I handle these matches by explaining at check-in to kids that if they hear me say "Play, play, play..." or "no, no, no, keep playing", or "not my whistle, keep playing" then they should keep on playing because sometimes they'll think something happened and it didn't. If I blow my whistle and they don't stop, guess what? I'll blow it again, no problemo. This sets the tone for kids and coaches of what to expect from me.

During a match you'll hear what amounts to a conversation between myself and players and the coaches/spectators. "Play, play, play, he tripped on the ball...", "Keep playing, he put himself in that position, play, play.." "it's still in, keep playing." "A little trip there, no big deal, it happens, it happens, we have a free kick for blue right here." Or even talking down a player who might be boiling over with frustration, or upset over giving up a PK or something.

With u11-U12 they get the same treatment, but I speak to them a little differently and manage fouls according to the level of play.

What I mostly hear from coaches and parents is that they appreciate the communication and getting up and down the field. "Most refs just stand in the middle and blow the whistle and expect everyone to know what's going on."
I see this a lot. Officiating younger matches actually takes a lot more out of you mentally because you're CONSTANTLY managing someone. Some guys are tired and get a little lazy, some guys are bored, some just need some mentoring. Some guys have been out there for six hours, already and are running on fumes and get a bit disconnected.

I explain all this so you can understand were some guys are coming from. I wouldn't expect the crazy amount of excess energy that I have, but you might ask for a bit better communication perhaps? Also, keep in mind that experience among crews varies wildly and not everyone benefits from mentoring. Foul recognition will also vary wildly from ref to ref.


All this understanding from both sides (I also coach a lot) should find a resolution of some sort.

If a coach has a problem with calls/non-calls, I'd say the best way to approach me is, AT BEST, if during play, to call over with something like "what was the call there?" (If there WAS a call that you disagree with) be genuinely curious, it's all about tone. But, for the most part, I'd wait until the half and ask if you can talk for a second. Then, ask nicely. Framing everything as a question; "Over there, when the ball was heading out and my player got tripped, I don't understand why that wasn't a foul, but a throw-in, can you help me understand?" The best you can likely hope for is to let the ref know you're not a jerk and that you saw something you probably didn't like and allows them to explain their thoughts. Don't argue, just say "thanks for clarifying." and move on. The better relationship you have with the Center, the more likely they'll listen to you.

As far as changing how a game is being managed re: Roughness etc... yeesh. That's a tough one. You'll get a different response from everyone. For me, personally, MAYBE approaching me nicely at the half with something maybe like; "Hey, I feel like it's maybe getting a little rough out there and we're really not used to it. I'm going to do my best to keep my kids from losing their composure, can you help me out? (or maybe ...can you call it a bit tighter, at least at first?" Would probably be fine.
HOWEVER, I'm super reasonable and rarely ever get emotional over these things. You'll get different traction depending on the day. I might have spent the last match with a coaching screaming at players right in my ear on the line for an hour. Worst-case, I might think you're an idiot, but will move on.
Others will take it personally. There's no real one answer, here except frame your questions/concerns carefully, don't get emotionally charged, be the nice guy. Honey Vs Vinegar.



As a coach:

I have pre-season meetings with parents where I'm extremely clear about referee abuse/player abuse. I remind them NOT to coach them from the sideline, as I may have them working on something that seems counter-intuitive. Cheer them on, no directions. PLEASE don't ever talk to the officials, if there's a problem, be assured that I'll handle it. It sets a bad tone for spectators commenting on officials and it never helps our team, or our club. I repeat this throughout the season, even if we don't have issues. I always want to be the team that gets he benefit of the doubt, and NOT the team refs hate to work with.

Explain to parents that if there's an issue with them and the referee, they referee has the option to abandon a match, leading to forfeits. Usually does the trick.

Sending out videos like the ones above are great, as well.

Hope this helps. just remember; You can't control the referee, but you CAN behave in a manner that you're proud of at the end of the day.

 

The Minnesota State Referee Committee also put together a series of videos about the recent law changes. Here is the link for the first video in the series.

 

I endorse pretty much everything @Spencedawgmillionaire said, with the caveat that I think he'd agree he's mostly talking about dealing with adult(ish) refs. Dealing with younger refs is and should be a different matter entirely – even to the point of leaving them the heck alone.

Remember that there are three teams on that pitch, and in youth games all three are learning. Remember also that for many if not most younger refs, having to talk to an even remotely hostile adult, especially a coach, is deer-in-headlights stuff.

To reinforce what he said, if you must say something, ask, and ask politely and only once. Never ever argue.

 

When I was coaching, back when the balls were stones, I found that, at a stoppage in my vicinity, a calm, reasonably friendly, "Ref, could you tighten it up a bit?" was all it took. YMMV. Around here, at least, most referees of youth games are high school age players. They tend to call U-littles the same way their high school games go, which allows far too much physical play.

 

THIS.

We struggle to get our high school age refs to reset their bar, and frequently when they do they go way too far and call every touch a foul.

 

There's some good advice above. I also think a simple thing that you can say is "Ref, my kids feel like they're getting pushed a bit out there. Could you watch for that in the second half?" That framing doesn't say "you're missing" but what your kids feel is happening.

But as others have said, be very careful if you have youth referees. I think you can say the above--gently--but be very careful not to seem intimidating, as many youth referees are feeling intimidated already and that's why they aren't making calls.

And keep in mind that at 11U you are rarely going to get the cream of the crop. You're going to have some good refs and some that, well, stink. (And they will stink in different ways--some will be too new to know what they are doing, some will be "experienced" (alas, often of the "one year of experience 10 times" variety), some will be hopelessly out of shape, some won't really care and just want the check, some will be experienced, but haven't read the law book in 15 years). When you have some of those, don't waste your breath.

I haven't coached for a few years, but one of my mantras to players (in both soccer and basketball) was to adjust to the referee. If the referee thinks its a foul throw to step on the line on a throw in, it doesn't matter if he's wrong--don't step on the line!

 

Heck I struggle to reset my own bar every time I go from a U18 match to a U13 ...

 

I'm going to have that fun Sunday when I go from two ECNL games back to back where all four teams are at or near the top of the standings to a state league game where both teams played a total of 18 games and won exactly one game each.

As for how to talk to young referees, I have had to say this a few times. I don't publicly criticize the youth and inexperience of your team. Please don't publicly criticize the youth and inexperience of mine.

 

One of my favorite lines to players as a coach when the game is getting physical is to ask the players to release the ball sooner. Something like “Jimmy if you would have released it sooner you could have avoided that contact.” It does two things it gets the players to release sooner and let’s the ref know without talking to him directly.

 

Tip #2 to get the refs attention without getting in trouble when the game is getting too physical. Call out your own player for a physical foul. "Jimmy keep your arms down. Put a shoulder on him instead." or "Jimmy your going to hurt someone if you keep coming in late, come in under control."

If you don't see a change and it is still too physical, here is a spin on asking for the game to be tightened up. Have your captain go to the referee and say that my coach is asking for the game to be tightened up. If it is at halftime have the captain take some oranges /snacks too.

I personally have not done the captain ask the referee part but I have sent oranges out to the referees at halftime. I think the natural sugar changes their moods in the second half

 

I'll add that at this age, there can also be a big range of physicality that teams/players use/accept. There are teams playing physically, but not foul against teams not used to it.

It makes it difficult to judge fouls when teams have different expectations going in.

Parents at this age can also be a problem because their expectations are based on last year, or last week, when things change with the kids literally day-to-day with these kids, in both directions.

 

Welcome! This is an amazing board for all things referee. The regular posters and moderators are immensely knowledgeable. Lurk/post. And don’t be put off by the relative bluntness.

The laws of the game of course are not a secret. Don’t you have a ussf coaching license? If so then you have been provided with resources about the laws that are similar to the intro ref course.

(My son had a youth coach from Germany. There to get the lowest coaching license you also had to take the referee course, which takes a week. The actual coaching course is 2 weeks long)

I guess you’re asking about referee technique and procedure? Not to be glib, but the best way learn that is to be a ref. get a few people in your club to become refs- they become a great teaching resource for all the coaches and players. The back of the laws of the game has several pages that address referee positioning, offside, etc.

as for addressing the referee, I would say that it is unhelpful. Not to you, not to the ref, not to the kids. The confident ref will tolerate legitimate questions and occasional dissent that is not a harangue, so continue to act responsibly. As you correctly point out, games where one team is “rougher” than the other seldom have contact that is literally dangerous. So you don’t like the physical level and want the ref to change it- ok, but what does the other coach/team want? Teach your kids to adapt to whatever the circumstances and not make excuses. If you want the ref to be a better ref, believe me when I say that it’s not going to be because a u little coach bent his ear at a time when the ref team should be focused on each other.

Please don’t think I don’t sympathize. It’s hard to watch a youth game where one team is much more physical than the other. It is very hard to referee. But you’re asking us to tell you how to get a ref to call a game more like you want than how the other coach wants.

 

Certainly, there are games where the two teams disagree about how physical play should be. Referee nightmare: Ireland v Mexico. Normally, the referee needs to enforce the implicitly agreed dividing line between what's a foul and what's trifling contact. In those games, the players may disagree about whether what they did crossed the line or not. E.g. "That's pretty soft." When the teams have different expectations, however, the argument is about whether that should be a foul in this game. Teams, in my experience, will adapt to the referee's decisions in the former situation but not in the latter. So we just have to decide what's normal for this type of game (this age group, this sex, this level of play, local custom, etc.). That may be somewhere in the middle but it may also be that one team's expectations are pretty far from normal, either more or less physical. And when it's one of those games, we just have to accept that one or, probably, both teams will walk away upset with our work. "The ref wouldn't let us play!" from one team and "He wasn't calling anything!" from the other. It just goes with the territory.

 

Oh, and, as Steve Jobs liked to say, "just one more thing..." Sometimes, we don't have disagreement between the teams about the level of physical play. Sometimes it's one or two players who disagree, wanting it either higher or lower. That gives us a 'management opportunity.' Or maybe, it's the coach wanting a different level than his (it's always a guy) players do. That's always an interesting situation to manage. And sometimes I have said to players of the teenage boy variety, "You want physical? You can't handle physical!"

 

I thought that was Columbo....

 

I dare say there are many here who doesn't know who Columbo is.

 

Yeah, I realize that the Columbo reference is a bit of a tell....

 

Steve Jobs would end his presentation at the Apple annual stockholders' meeting by faking that he was done and then saying "Oh, just one more thing" followed by presenting the fantastic new product that Apple had developed.

Yes, Columbo used the same phrase. And who "discovered" America? In his language, his name was Christobal Columbo.

 

Peter Falk discovered America.

 

OK Boomer.

 

Sooner or later.

 

OK Sooner