Coaching Philosophies and the Gregg Berhalter System

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Susaeta, Mar 14, 2019.

  1. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sometimes lineups aren't who are the best players lets stick 'em out there but what's the best lineup of players that play well together. There have been a couple of games now where Miazga, Cannon and Morris play on the right and they seem to fit and play well together. Miazga passes into space for Cannons runs and he often one or two touches to where Morris can get behind the defense. Haven't seen enough against better teams to stick to this but Yedlin didn't mesh as well with Morris but could be better with Weah and a different RCB. Arreola played the left winger spot well with Pulisic at #10. If no one else meshes as well then he'd have to be a possible starter when Pulisic playe the #10 or a similar winger who can cut in when Pulisic goes wide should be looked for.
     
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  2. Mahtzo1

    Mahtzo1 Member+

    Jan 15, 2007
    So Cal
    #2852 Mahtzo1, Oct 29, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2019
    I really have no idea.

    At the time it was pure speculation based upon what I might be thinking (if I were him). Many (most) of the things I thought could make sense have turned out to be completely incorrect so I have stopped guessing.

    I can still see why he might have been thinking that Adams could be effective in the role, I just disagree. Of course we really haven't seen it in action yet so, at least that one issue is somewhat undecided. Among other things, I think it is overly complex and, due to the horizontal movement required of Adams, could lead to huge issues defensively....primarily in defending as a team (team shape and communication). It makes me think of what I know about Japanese war plans compared to US war plans during WW2. The Japanese often had extremely complex plans that failed when one apspect failed. The US tended to have simpler plans which did not rely as much on precise timing or all details going exactly as planned.

    Edit: to answer your question, I don't know if I was completely wrong, if he had someone in mind, or he was hoping someone would emerge.

    FWIW, it appears that Yueill seems to be ahead of Trapp at the moment. I also believe that even though 2022 is not really that far ahead, it is still enough time for someone to emerge. That combined with the likelyhood that Bradley will decline further from this point (regardless of where anybody believes he is now) gives a possiblity that someone will replace Bradley. It could be someone we have all been following and calling for or it could be someone that turns out to be a real surprise. My candidate would be Pomykal. (I think I consider him more of an 8 than a 6 but believe he has many of the qualities that Berhalter seems to value offensively but also is better than Bradley defensively.

    While I am suggesting possible personnel changes, I want to be clear that I don't believe that is the real issue. I believe that Berhalter's time should be up. If he makes all of the changes that make BS happy tomorrow, I think he has still failed the test and we need to be looking for a replacement.
     
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  3. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There are lots of posts from when GB was first hired where posters made fools of themselves but that one is just sad because it illustrates the naivety of some fans and even many in the US soccer media.

    Beating a pathetic Panama C team and a CR C team that actually was better than the US squad until CR made 6 changes in the 2nd half is not a predictor of anything positive.

    Anyone who knows much about the game and watches Trapp play knows that Trapp does not have the attributes to be effective at the international level against competent opponents. Creating gimmick tactics just to get Trapp on the field is stupid to the point of incompetence and a poster who tells other posters to go fvuck themselves for pointing that out, well as they say sometimes we get the system we deserve.
     
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  4. RalleeMonkey

    RalleeMonkey Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    here
    I'm not busting your balls, but it's so sad that this is what qualifies as good news: the manager figures out that the best DM the nation has ever produced is a DM, and a CB isn't a FB. Whoopeeeeee!
     
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  5. HouseHead78

    HouseHead78 Member+

    Oct 17, 2006
    Austin, TX
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm not for or against Berhalter's system but I do think that the process of learning to do new things is rarely pretty. I'm reminded of how static Atlanta United looked early in the year, after having looked so good under Martino.

    With some reps and adjustments they figured it out and are in a good position to win MLS Cup again. Hopefully we're just in a similar rough patch.

    Oddly enough, as I was writing this, an article came out that's tangentially relevant to my post

    https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2019...ss-giving-him-time-and-space-he-didnt-get-epl
     
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  6. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Egg didn't play Trapp much so hard to tell.

    Egg seemed set on Bradley and he seems to like Yueil nore than Trapp.

    Would Yueil or Bradley have done as well as Trapp v. France and England?.
     
  7. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    If the US team practiced 5 days a week together for the entire year, I'd be on board...

    As has already been discussed, a team that gets together for a week or two every few months isn't going to have the benefits that de Boer had with his team.

    Even worse - if he keeps going with installing his "system", making big changes is going to be even harder ("they don't know the SYSTEM"), and we're stuck with the guys we've already seen, who have proven to not be good enough. So will these same guys, knowing the SYSTEM better after another 3-5 camps, be that much better? How much better? Beat Canada better? Mexico?
     
  8. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Morris almost lost his job when he had to play with Cannon, as I recall it. I believe Cannon played with Morris in 0-1 loss in GC to Mexico but Morris didn't play in 0-3 friendly loss. Boyd did instead and I think it was his last start. Watch Ritchie Laryea for Toronto play then watch Cannon and you'll see the stark difference. (You may get your chance in Orlando mid November) Cannon has been a good defender.
     
  9. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    What all these coaches are trying to tell Egg is that he needs time and doesn't have it.
     
  10. TOAzer

    TOAzer Member+

    The Man With No Club
    May 29, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ok, we now know General Egg is a slow learner. But we have not ruled out he is a learner. If in the next round of LoN matches we see a genuine revamping of the team, one with less emphasis on forcing the procrustean bed of "The System" and one which allows our promising younger talent a more expressive role, then there is hope for his tenure.
    However, if after all this [Stewart's intervention, the saving of Dest, and so on], he returns to a Mikey and The Minions line-up, then there is really no hope for him.

    We'll see.
     
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  11. dougtee

    dougtee Member+

    Feb 7, 2007
    we gotta keep gregg jammed up writing open letters so he has less time to coach players
     
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  12. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wow, excellent word choice! I don't know that I'd ever come across that word before and had to look it up. Perfect! Did you get that from one of those good books you said you pick up instead of watching another Berhalter game?
     
  13. manfromgallifrey91

    Swansea City
    United States
    Jul 24, 2015
    Wyoming, USA
    Club:
    Southampton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But De Boer has much more managerial success and experience than Gregg. And I can see being more patient with him. He has proven he can do it.

    Gregg got Columbus to almost winning, and has about a career 500 win percentage. Not exactly amazing when you look at him being a low level Euro manager who got fired, and a Cbus team he could mold into his system because they were never going to fire him. No way you have enough time to do that at the NT level, and he has refused to see how poor players are and try something else. Nope, we get Lovitz as an LB at the national team level.
     
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  14. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Lay off the mushrooms E. Cannon was of the few in the first Mexico game that played well. The second game I hold the coach responsible for forcing a training exercise on the defenders and keeper and it made a lot of them look poor. Like I said watch how much better Cannon looks with Miazga behind him than Long. In the Cuba game Cannon was constantly putting Morris into space behind the Cubans. Of course it was Cuba but in the next game Yedlin constantly held the ball too long instead of making those quick one or two touch passes to open things up.
     
  15. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I believe this is fair...

    Granted, I’m ready to fire him now. But part of that is because I’m emotionally jaded after the 2018WC failure.

    Signs point that he is “slow learner” as you pointed out, but he does also seem humble and a nice guy. Now, that doesn’t mean he’s the right coach and that he deserves a long leash. But, I guess(?) it’s better to have a bad, nice coach than a bad, jerk coach.
     
  16. laxcoach

    laxcoach Member+

    United States
    Jul 29, 2017
    intermountain west
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What's awesome about Jay's brother the egg is that he gets ahold of our best players and makes them look like garbage. But then they head back to their clubs and show him what a true moron he really is.
     
  17. TOAzer

    TOAzer Member+

    The Man With No Club
    May 29, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I picked it up from reading a book on Greek mythology when I was a kid..... but the books I've been picking up recently just may have a perfect word lurking here or there......;)
     
  18. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Greek mythology FTW.

    Personally, I think toazer is giving 3G too much credit; it’s a Sisyphean task to expect him to change. 3G has an anti-Midas touch. The Fed is like the Augean stables.
     
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  19. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    In the vanguard of the soccer media in USA is Curly Doyle at MLS dot com.

    In his preview of LAFC/Seattle he stated

    "Eduard Atuesta is the best d-mid in the league".
    https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2019...-audi-2019-mls-cup-playoffs-conference-finals

    Now go watch the 3 goals Seattle scored.

    I like Curly. He's the brain of the three stooges. But he's still a stooge. At some stage he'll write a glowing review of the Egg. Then we'll go into the hex and come in 4th. And fail in one of the 2 playoffs. And we will not qualify.
     
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  20. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    #2870 DHC1, Nov 3, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2019
    Maybe the philosophy of Earnie Stewart and Berhalter is bad for the US. Look at the terrible loss at the u17, which I understand was at least partially due to forcing a style of the whole ussf structure. Ugh.

    to be clear, I am not putting the u17 loss on Gregg. He’s only responsible for the USMNT.
     
  21. RalleeMonkey

    RalleeMonkey Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    here
    Really, that's all we have to hang out hat on. Jay's Brother will not be fired.

    I don't think it's going to happen. The Fed is wayyyy too invested in "the system." My optimisim/pessimism scale wrt the Men's program has never been lower. Not after Couva. Watching Jay's Brother's sh*t system being imposed on the U-17s, watching their lifeless, zombie like performance in response to the CB's having to touch the ball on every possession ….. this must be what it's like seeing your kid make a huge mistake that it will take years to rectify.
     
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  22. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Maybe they have a plan for 2026 and this is a throw-away cycle to put all the pieces in place for that plan.
     
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  23. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    ASN on U17's crash at WC

    There was also the confusing system that Wicky utilized that mirrored the way the full national team plays – also unsuccessfully, so far. It begs the obvious question that unless these players are playing this system for their clubs, does this indirect play make sense at the national team level?

    http://www.americansoccernow.com/ar...wrong-for-the-2019-u-17-team-and-what-is-next

    If I could talk to Berhalter what I would tell him is that players have "personalities" or a term I like better, "character", which is usually individual and the job of the manager is to let that character come out under favorable circumstances.

    Watching the u17's and thinking about the previous group, it seemed to me that the current group lacked "the straw that stirs the drink". There was an emphasis on the 6, Levya, in the same sense that we are emphasizing the 6 at the senior level, Bradley/Yueil. Last cycle the u17's had Carleton somewhere at the halfway line, central or touch line, pinging balls around which had danger written all over them while Durkin sat back concentrating on defense and passing long balls if the opportunity came up. The U20's had Pomykal doing more or less the same thing as Carleton but with his character tending more towards ball winning than Carleton.

    At the senior level it seems the masses have McKennie and Morales in mind with Nagbe on the wish list somewhere but we have seen the results and they are not any better than u17's and I fear the same reason is to blame.

    Adams will come back eventually and people will say "aha, see, I told you Egg was all wet, we look so much better with Adams, everything is fine now" without understanding that we will be one injury or red card away from failure to qualify because we failed to address what was wrong with the team when Adams was not available.
     
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  24. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Hiring third rate European coaches we're falling into the same trap as the African NTs back in the 80s and 90s: just because some guy has a German or British accent, it doesn't mean he knows about soccer.
     
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  25. gunnerfan7

    gunnerfan7 Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Jul 22, 2012
    Santa Cruz, California
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He had the team playing well in CONCACAF, but not playing Gregg's "system". The competition wasn't the best, but that first half vs. Mexico was some dominance rarely displayed by a US team. Mexico was lucky not to go in down 3-0.

    The common denominator is there, even if people are loathe to see it. We're more technical than past generations, but we're nowhere good enough to pass through teams. Mainly I think we don't process things fast enough to take advantage of good positions, even if we get someone who can hit a pass in an advantageous position...
     
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