In 2013 the Hungarian Federation produced its Top 11 Hungarian players for each position. Three years earlier Hungarian FourFourTwo listed its Top 50 all-time players from the country as voted on by experts. There are also the UEFA Jubilee Awards covering the period 1954-2003. The Polish FA produced a Top 46 with assistance from the newspaper Gazeta Wyborcza. In 2016 the magazine Pilka Nozva listed the Top 9 Polish players by position (6 goalkeepers) since 1956. There were also UEFA Jubilee lists for Serbia, Croatia, Bosnia and Slovenia. Some of these lists have already been mentioned on the forum but I can reproduce them if required.
its was a great performance irregardless of the goalkeeping errors 3 goals against an opponent of the caliber of spain cant be categorised as anything other than great for the rest of his world cup career alot has left to be desired no doubt about that disagree 75 - Cristiano Ronaldo has been directly involved in 75 goals in 77 Champions League knockout appearances (61 goals, 14 assists). Phenom. pic.twitter.com/NzHcWtj9ex— OptaJoe (@OptaJoe) March 12, 2019 the champions league KO stage for a team as real madrid/barcelona is no less difficult than the world cup KO stage for a team as brazil 58-70 or 97-02 just go through the list of opponents he has faced in the QF to final rounds 1gpg ratios against teams as bayern munich,juventus and atletico in the champions league nobody before him did that
what is the logic behind this? longevity? big game performances ? team titles? ballon dor placements? talent(was platini really a more effective chance creator than puskas/CR were goalscorers) does platini pre 1984 compare to CR 07-09 with 3 consecutive 'ballon dors' by 24 years old? which champions league campaigns of platini compare to CRs best and puskas 59/60 examples please of when platini ever did dominate the latter stages of the european cup for juventus(the number 1 elo ranked team in italy during his prime)? platini would most likely not be a top 15 all timer without EURO 84 5 matches propelled him to the level of maradona and above zico when any objective viewer can easily see he was a demonstrably inferior natural talent
Well, Platini was a big star in St-Étienne long before arriving to Juventus in the summer of 1982. In Juve, his level was constantly very high, which is reflected in his average ratings in the sports press (three dailies + Guerin Sportivo): 6.61 in 82/83, 6.84 in 83/84, 6.49 in the two following seasons and finally 6.20 in 86/87, when he was struggling with injuries. Only Maradona had a higher average in those years (but Diego was younger and his decline hadn't started yet). On NT level, he was one of the most prolific goalscorers. Players active in the 70s, 80s and 90s: 56 Batistuta 55 Streich, Romário 52 Zico 48 Lineker 47 Bonev, Völler, Klinsmann 46 Šuker [for Yugoslavia & Croatia] 45 Kh. Rummenigge, Lato 44 Polster 42 Blokhin 41 Platini, Deyna 39 Bebeto 38 Elkjær 37 M. Laudrup, Stoichkov, Bergkamp 35 Hagi, Kirsten 34 Krankl, Maradona, Zamorano, Türkyilmaz 33 Cruyff 32 Nyilasi, Szarmach, Fischer 31 K. Andersson, Nehoda 30 Dalglish, Papin, Shearer 29 Anastopoulos, Bajevic, Careca, Dahlin, Caszely, Protasov [URSS & Ukraine] 28 Rush, Djorkaeff, Kiprich 27 R. Baggio, Platt 26 Butragueño, Cubillas, Roberto Dinamite, Brolin, Kostadinov, Robson, Herzog, Iordănescu, Knup 25 Altobelli, Zl. Vujovic, Iguarán, Bölöni 24 Boniek, Fazekas, Van Basten
Different times, different contexts... Actually, I think finishing third in ballon d' or rankings with Nancy -and almost finishing first, actually- is no less impressive than winning the trophy with Manchester united. I can see why many consider Maradona as a better player than platini (even if I don't completely agree with it), but Zico ?
https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/cr7-best-nt-career-ever.2086155/ I think most agree that UEFA is the hardest and highest quality competition body in football. In club level and national team level. Cr7 has consistently dominated this hardest and the highest quality arena. Here are the indicators: Most goals scored in the UEFA European Championship, including qualifying: 29 goals, for Portugal Leading top scorer in the highest quality football continent's competition. Only player who has scored in 8 consecutive major international tournaments: the 2004, 2008, 2012 and 2016 editions of the European Championship; and the 2006, 2010, 2014and 2018 editions of the World Cup Consistency. No one has been as consistent in 8 2 major NT-tournaments. Not Pele, not Maradona, not Zidane. UEFA European Championship top goalscorer 2012 He scored two goals to the world cup finalist in a do-or-die match. Who could do it? He led his team out of the group of death, scored in the quarter-final. Important moments in major tournaments: Ronaldo would be selected the best young player of World Cup 2006, he lost it due to his behaviour Man of the match against France in World Cup semi-final Man of the match VS Czech Republic in Euro08. Man of the match in the group of death of World Cup 2010. Single handedly destroyed WC 2010 runner-up in Euros, scored twice and elected man of the match vs Netherlands. Again in group of death. Man of the match in the quarter-final of Euro2012 Part of the tournament's team Single handedly saved his team in World Cup 2014 qualifications play off. 4 goals. despite suffering from patellar tendinitis and ongoing doubts over his fitness, being forced to abort practice twice, Ronaldo again assisted the equaliser against the USA in the injury time. Scored winning goal against Ghana. Note that it was group of death. Ronaldo again saved his team from being eliminated from Euro2016. The match ended in 3-3 draw, Ronaldo gave an assist and two goals, single handedly saving his team. In semis of Euro2016 Ronaldo scored and assisted a goal. Again saved his team. Ended the tournament 3 goals and 3 assists all of which came in the most important moments. Played in 3 different semi-finals of Euros, 3 times named to the team of the tournament. Scored a hattrick against Spain in World Cup 2018. Single handedly saved his team. Ronaldo scored the only goal in a 1–0 victory against Morocco Note that, Ronaldo achieved all of these in the top quality football continent, most of the times he was in group of death and yet usually was saviour and man of the match. These are the margins we are talking here, no one is close. Please let me know what you think?
Cristiano Ronaldo has the best european club career as well. Here is his UCL career comparison against his closest competitor Messi: https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/li...ns-league-career.2085719/page-2#post-36977280 https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/li...ns-league-career.2085719/page-2#post-36979163 https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/li...ns-league-career.2085719/page-2#post-36979273 Does any one have better club career? He has the best NT career ever, he has the best club career ever. So, he is the best ever. Let me know what do you think about it?
Uhmmm.... Thuram was the official man of the match in the 2006 semi final. What shows those absolute numbers accurately I think is the number of goals scored against the elite sides. Platini is on 10 goals scored against the elite (Brazil, Argentina, Germany, Italy, England, Spain, France; I count USSR, Portugal, Uruguay, Netherlands, Hungary until 1970s as the 2nd tier across time). Some comparison material (players with a career in 70s to 90s): Baggio - 3 goals Batistuta - 3 goals Beckenbauer - 2 goals Best - 1 goal Bergkamp - 9 goals (check, no pens) Cristiano Ronaldo - 4 goals Cruijff - 6 goals Henry - 3 goals M. Laudrup - 7 goals Maradona - 5 goals Messi - 8 goals Muller - 7 goals Ronaldo Luis - 10 goals Romario - 3 goals Streich - 4 goals Van Basten - 5 goals Zico - 6 goals Zidane - 10 goals ----- Xavi - 1 goal Some explanatory comments from my perspective: - Ronaldo Luis his 10 goals include some penalties. However, those were mostly won with his direct involvement. Pretty impressive for someone whose top level career was done at 28. - Van Basten played his last NT match at 27 (Platini: 5 goals before he was 28). Has also literally a handful assists against the elite, plus pre-assists. - Zico scored more often against severely under-strength teams (Argentina 76, 79, France 81). - Muller his 7 goals include 3 against France. It's well possible to argue France was far, far removed from the elite at the time (Elo rank 20+). On the flipside though: USSR was strong & deep enough to split their efforts and best players across two tournaments in 1972 (euro runner-up and Olympics 3rd place - the emerged Blokhin participated in the latter). - Messi his 8 goals are all in friendlies and include 3 against Brazil's under-23 team (2012). The other 5 goals include 1 penalty (not won with his involvement). - Ronaldo his 4 goals include 1 penalty (vs Spain 2018). - Zidane his 10 goals include 2 penalties. - Laudrup his 7 goals include 2 penalties. - Maradona his 5 goals: Brazil 1981, Italy 1986, England 1986 (twice), Italy 1987.
This was uploaded yesterday: Gullit: 2 goals against elite sides (this great goal), 3 assists. All in competitive games - that's in his favor. Good pre-assist against France in 1982 here. Own goal (almost 'his' goal) vs England here (also the pre-assist for 2nd goal but that as an aside). I don't see him as a (categorically) 'better' player than Laudrup but he deserves a 'honorable mention' for 1994-95 in my eyes (of the non-strikers in Serie A only Zola scored one non-penalty goal more; this includes 6 non-penalty goals against top three teams).
Nice goal (Spain short vid) but considerably deflected though, as we can see thanks to the replay at 1:10. edit : + Gullit played a good part of the 1994-95 season upfront iirc. Zola too I think. edit2 : or it was 93-94, at least.
Yes true but I liked it because of the build-up and him playing as defender in this match... Those contingencies are not uncommon for (legendary) sweepers: Baresi his only international goal for club and country was a penalty; Beckenbauer's goals against elite national teams was a heavy deflection and an error by Bonetti (I haven't seen all european goals, some were/are missing). Gullit's national team career is not without skeptics (as mentioned: a panel of experts placed him outside the post-1960s ideal XI in 2014) but this deflection is 'compensated' somewhat by the Tony Adams own goal, or two extra assists vs USSR when those were ranked #1 or #2 by Elo (penalty won plus that assist in the euro 1988 final). For the first time since the early/mid 60s USSR was ranked #1 or #2. He certainly did in some matches, like the famous 3-2 win match vs Milan (Milan conceded 15 goals all season in the league, including 3 during/after the title winning match). In other big matches he played more from deeper roles, or it changed through the match, like this one against Parma (#2 in the table). Example here. + old post below from the 'best games by great players' thread (one of Zola's most acclaimed seasons) It's not easy to say how many games this happened. The sources I've seen (including the official Serie A site) do the line-ups by shirtnumbers and his number was 4. DBScalcio lists him as a forward, bdfutbol has him down as a midfielder in the majority of matches. Foreign articles of the time with him as the main actor keep it in the middle and don't mention it. DBScalcio shows him as a defender for his Chelsea time which is also arguable (bdfutbol lists as midfielder). Anyway, with 'non-strikers' I also meant the forwards, and both of them were tactically/positionally disciplined players as well. Branca and Asprilla were the strikers, Zola played deeper.
At Chelsea he started off the season as sweeper, but at some point (not too far into it) Hoddle decided he should play in midfield. For the 1993/94 season I found a page at one point that showed him as one of two forwards/strikers I think so I guess that was his more usual kind of role that season, but yes maybe his versatility was made use of. I'm thinking he played a bit as right midfielder/winger back at Milan at the start of 94/95, before re-joining Sampdoria.
So... On one hand we have Platini and Zidane who respectively scored 25% and 33% of their goals vs elite teams and on the other hand Ronaldo who couldn't exceed 4.5%... while being primarily a goalscorer. How some guys will constantly inflate Ronaldo's international achievements will always amaze me...
Yes.... 3 - Cristiano Ronaldo had scored three goals from 70 shots in his previous three World Cup tournaments combined for Portugal (2006, 2010 and 2014) – at the 2018 World Cup, he has scored three goals from just four shots. Aim. #WorldCup #POR #PORMAR pic.twitter.com/1oO2BGV0gz— OptaJoao (@OptaJoao) June 20, 2018 I think few would ascribe Zidane's aura and glitters to Cristiano his national team career, but I'm not insensitive to context. Interestingly, Zidane himself said in 2004: "When I stop playing," he says ahead of tonight's mouthwatering meeting with England in Lisbon, "of course I would love people to remember me for my impact on an entire competition. I don't just want to have one good game, or score one important goal; I want to be influential from start to finish. "We all refer to the Pele World Cup of 1970, the [Franz] Beckenbauer one of 1974, or the Maradona one of 1986. And we all also talk about the 1976 European Championship of [Antonin] Panenka, the 1984 one of [Michel] Platini, or the 1988 one of [Marco] Van Basten. I have not yet deserved that special honour." Bizarre as it sounds, Zidane is probably right. He was tired at Euro '96 in England, got sent off at France '98 before redeeming himself just in time during the final, and was carrying an injury at the World Cup in Japan and South Korea two summers ago. Only at Euro 2000, when France were crowned champions of the continent in the Low Countries, did Zidane play well consistently. "Well, but not brilliantly," he points out, despite having been named player of the tournament. "I did not always shine four years ago." https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...s-now-zizou-wants-to-run-the-show-732052.html Playing for Portugal, that organization, is not the same. Call me paranoid but for example all the bogus calls in Germany's favor (much more than the pontemkin calls they get against) like the 1998 qualifiers, or the nonsense penalties in these 2020 qualifiers to ensure their better head-to-head are not fully coincidental (Brazil at the 2014WC vs Croatia, Chile, Colombia, Netherlands... except for the matches they played against another superpower). Or how because of commercial and money reasons the relegation gets suddenly cancelled (what @celito says here) - usually such changes don't have a retroactive effect but now it conveniently does after successful lobbying (the usual procedure is: the ones who finish bottom last in the next cycle/season will not be relegated - see also the precedents when national leagues got expanded or reduced). Sad, but very revealing. Same applies to the seeding where the usual suspects are always seeded regardless of past/recent performances and the method is changed continuously to get the desired results. Portugal is most of the times not seeded (seeded in 2004, 2016, 2018), and this is very valuable to have in the marathon event (with suspensions, fatigue, injuries taking a toll). At the same time, it's true they were sometimes fortunate to qualify and just get through the eye of the needle (in easy groups). As another example the match commentator said this weekend at a Barcelona game (and this country is pro-Barca territory): "Pure handball - VAR intervenes - but with Barça involved the referee must also look at the video for certainty - that's a form of psychological subservience. Because with a lesser club, the referee really doesn't check whether the VAR was right in his perception. Vadillo makes it 2-0." I think Cristiano his national team career is just about good enough to receive a pass. He never reached the heights of players playing for similar (or smaller) countries - that is true (you can say e.g. Ibra and Robben were consistently better at major tournaments as him, with more impressive moments against the good teams). - The only player to score in four different euro championships. The only player to assist in four different euro championships. - The fourth player to score at four different World Cups - Has won the euros (and UNL, but played only two matches). Participated in another final (2004, as host), semi finals (2006, 2012), a quarter final (2008). Portugal until 2004 had three semi finals and one quarter final in their existence. - Scored a hat-trick against Spain in 2018 (one penalty), winning assist against Croatia in 2016, three goals against Netherlands (2004, 2012), assist against Germany (2008). You can perhaps add Czech Republic in 2008 and 2012 as well (they were in decline in 2008, but Czech still top 10 in Elo - comparable to JC14s goal and assist against Spain, who were continously in the top 10 between 1970 and 1974). It is not super impressive (and Portugal won euros against the hosts 'without' him on the field) but he has his deep runs and some goals against the elite and the second tier in competitive games. Other than Sergio Conceicao in 2000 (in a dead rubber for them), no other Portuguese player ever scored a hat-trick against an elite side at a major event.
Scoring against those Czech and Holland teams was very predictible tbh. Both times (against Spain '18 it was less, but he was helped by the fact that they sacked their coach pior to the tournament, by the wall of dwarves on the free-kick, not to mention De Gea's level of performance, like globally or like always at international level on his part). CR is too individualistic to be considered amongst the very best anyway*. Pelé, Maradona, Platini, Cruijff, Messi** (!), Puskas (?)... they all scored goals but also played for the others. Not to mention Zidane who won everything, scoring less in total but was often enough decisive in the big games (then there are those two red cards). The players he cites were not perfect from beginning to the end of the tournaments of course. He was after trying to always improve imo and to protect himself from some pressure (that he already can have enough by himself) at the same time possibly, although very possibly very 1st degree too and totally sincere saying what he said. Then, we're not in his head for sure but well. That's different from CR anyway, who finds his forces like in saying that he's the best in the world for example. That's to find the confidence of the striker in order to score goals. ZZ's "auto-criticism", it's in order to make the team win - again. It's already a big challenge trying to keep winning and I think he knew that the team would be less strong behind him too and was considering the scale of the task (most of all after the fiasco in 2002, where he arrived and played, injured, only in the last match). So the evocation of legends and myths like the one of Pelé '70. It's a dreamed level of performance that he is aiming at while being great from A to Z means being fit, first of. And invoking the gods also means praying for luck to be with you. *IMO! ** Messi has left some players aside from the 11, tho. PS : interesting too that ZZ cites Panenka.
In the main I agree with your take (or can see the merit and logic of it - thanks) but on this I'd say we can mention this for many great players, starting with Pele and Maradona. Pele playing against 10 Frenchmen, a very tired Italy etcetera; Maradona playing against England that missed their central midfield and so on (+ all but one of his major team achievements are tied to a handball - really). At least Ronaldo has his goals against the first and second tier (at tournaments) while his 'rival' Messi has not a single goal against the first or second tier teams in nine tournaments (not against Uruguay or Colombia either). And Messi has not a single goal or assist in a competitive match against Brazil (qualifiers + tournament). With instances of Argentina beating Chile, Germany (friendly) while losing with him in the very same month (losing against Colombia 0-2 while drawing just a few months earlier without Messi). I'm sure in those nine tournaments there must have been instances of favorable circumstances too, but he didn't capitalize while Ronaldo and others did. Of course I agree with you Platini, Messi and the others (Ibra's artistry too) were much more than just scoring (however, with a walking style and 'zero' defense it's a requirement to score and assist in great numbers; not having 40% shooting accuracy like in 2014), and yeah, that might be a limiting factor regardless of playing until your 40th or not - that might give an upper limit to Cristiano his mettle as a player (as in an actor who knows only one role). But I'm leaning to give Ronaldo his national team career a pass although his great rival has shown greater regularity and a higher baseline (imho - what I also said here). I do find it wrong though how close Ronaldo still was to Messi in the final result of the FIFA vote (36% vs 46% of the maximum points is a close finish). He has only 7 non-penalty goals in the Serie A this year for Juventus for example (will not spell out the full merits or lack of...) and there are no signs of Juventus gaining an improvement (yet). To be fair, Messi had a relatively bad ending of the season as well (won only one of the last five matches of 2018-19 for Barca), a problematic start of this season, and a sub-standard Copa America... So all in all you can say he met Spain etc. at the right moment, but there have been many (excellent) attackers who played a number of tournaments and didn't capitalize (in my view). If you play a number of tournaments the odds are high there will be a moment the dice rolls in your way.
It is fact that Maradona had injury problems at Barcelona, but at 22 and 23 years old in the Spanish League (which was the third strongest league in Europe at that time?) he was not so well ranked (4th and 15th best player in the league) while, for example, Cristiano Ronaldo at the same age was the highest rated player in the English League game (probably the strongest league in the world) leading Manchester United to be two-time PL champions and to become World Champion as well. One might say that Maradona was better in Italy than in Spain with Napoli, but so far Cristiano also reached a higher level in 2010-2012 playing for Real Madrid (Media DBS of Cristiano in La Liga at that time are all above Maradona's Media DBS in Spain). The Champions League knockout round, which has gained another level and status after ~ 2005, also shows that Cristiano Ronaldo was able to produce his impact in the big stage much more than Maradona playing either at the UEFA or the Europa Cup. All-all I think Cristiano's club carrer has to be ranked above the ones of Maradona, Platini or other legends of 80s by some margins.
Maybe I will come back to the new (or old?) Bada Bing later on, but for now on this I would suggest caution in comparing DBS ratings from the 80s with recent ones. Do we even know if it's the same publications handing out the scores? Let alone the same standards being used, given the large gap in years. I think I said it before to you mate, but I'm really not sure they can be compared over time so literally. One point I would make also to Bada Bing is that at Manchester United and Real Madrid (now Juventus too) he doesn't miss out on any seasons of CL football. Maradona for example didn't play in the European Cup in 1984/85, and various other players will have cases like that. Plus the Champions League is now quite a long competition, starting off with a group stage that brings generally 4 games at least with lower rated teams.
Yes the problem is how to rate players, and how to rate the raters For sure there were neutral sources where it wasn't a slam dunk ('neutral', while among the editors and raters there were friends of the Diego clan, indeed): https://football-ratings.blogspot.com/2011/12/memory-lane-serie-1989-90.html It's tough to compare, because the 80s were pre-Bosman so the players like Platini could move less easily (unless you had the FIFA bosses behind you, that made things more fluid). And while there was already star protection (relative to other players), also clear there has been a steep decrease in tackles, and a steep decrease in nasty tackles (example there vs Brazil) since the 1994 ban. It's factually proven the number of tackles have declined enormously since 1998. Maradona is clearly (to me) the best player of the 1980s as a whole (no one else had that level in 1980 and then also in 1989 if fit and healthy) but I've no doubts either some things about him are heavily exaggerated. According to Panini and vegan's own source by 1989 they were the joint-highest investors in Serie A; the correlation between results and his presence is by a margin not as strong as all the other multiple BdO winners minus Keegan and Rummenigge (no question for me); his passes not as piercing and dribbling not as consistent as remembered; many big achievements are linked to a handball (1986 and 1990WC, 1987 title, 1989 UEFA Cup); his continental achievements and impact on that very exaggerated (one final, zero semi finals); his big game scoring actually not on the map (by Delanay and Corbett attempts - ofc shouldn't be taken too literal); and while his national team career is phenomenal, they don't add up to more than 10 good/great performances at major tournaments (including the Mundialito). Think about that. Napoli was a few years earlier (before Krol's injury, and injuries of others) title contender as well and achieved only four points less. Those four points can be entirely explained by the fact Juventus, Roma and others were stronger than any team in 1986-87 (hence: the championship was won with a low points total, relative to maximum points). Also exaggerated is the 'marking'. While strikers as Careca, Vialli were indeed consistently shadowed, this was less the case for the midfielders behind, and Platini himself has told how this allowed him to time his runs and score goals. Platini his smart positioning and movement one of his strengths. Manchester United was still fairly strong and successful, with less fluidity, after him but yes it's clear by seeing 'FinkTank' (2nd link for a later date) and GoalImpact he had an influence on that, and influence on the results (ofc those have a margin of error but Maradona is really, really miles behind over a longer period of time, same for Zidane and Ronaldinho). Real Madrid also very underwhelming in Europe before his arrival, and although this was accompanied by a fresh presidency, re-organization and other investments, it's clear he had his impact on that too.
you didnt address the logic behind it at all international tournaments account for not even 10% of a players career especially of one who played freaking 1000 games @wm442433 a player who plays for himself and not for his team cannot be considered to be amongst the greatest why? this selfish player laid on 250 assists for his teammates 50 pre assists for his teammates how many unselfish players did that their names please finishing 3rd in literally the weakest era of ballon dor competition (late 70s)is comparable to what ronaldo did between 2007-2009 DELUSIONS playing in the highest ranked league in europe CR made manchester united the number one ranked team in the world winning 3 consecutive PL titles and the champions league if he retired at 24 years old hed done enough to be a top 50 all timer in football history https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premier_League_20_Seasons_Awards what he achieved in that 2-3 period is beyond staggering find any contemporary list and tell me where salah,hazard,aguero,david silva is ranked? most likely not even in the top 20 and they are 3-10 years older than he was in 2009 find me a european campaign of michel platini even comparable to cristiano ronaldo in 2008/09 scoring the winner against a very strong inter milan in the round of 16 scoring the winner against porto in the quarter final (the best goal by any player in 2009) demolishing arsenal in the Semifinal was the best player on a losing side in the final vs barcelona dont kid yourself with comparisons between CR at real madrid and platini michel platini at juventus couldnt even overcome a minnow as verona in serie A in 83/84 he was rated 7th by dbs calcio behind pietro fanna in 82/83 7th behind vierchwood and salvatore bagni lol these are his highest rated league seasons for the bianconeri no excuses please juventus were the number elo ranked team in italy and platini had the marketing behind him too so no excuses for finishing behind supposedly demonstrably inferior players CR of 2006/07 and 2007/08 was the best of the PL by consensus fans,media ratings,individual awards you name it he won it platini wasnt on the radar till his mid twenties again his 3rd place ballon in the late 70s was made possible because south americans werent even eligible pele,bobby charlton,johan cruyff (and others) said CR was at 22 years old as good or superior to george best https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/johan-cruyff-pays-cristiano-ronaldo-725552 https://www.goal.com/en/news/9/engl...stiano-ronaldo-reminds-me-of-george-best-pele https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/f...reatest-says-Sir-Bobby-Charlton-Football.html (george best ranked 7th 'greatest' of the 20th century) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Soccer_(magazine)#The_Greatest_Players_of_the_20th_century who/where was platini at that age which brings it back to the logic that youve failed to demonstrate comparisons with zidane are lol worthy
You're -still- ignoring context (deliberately or not)... Pick CR out of his super-teams : he'll remain a super player but his figures will flat down badly. The best evidence of it is his international carreer. You've never adressed this point : how do you explain the difference of his figures between club and NT ? In my mind the answer is rather simple : he benefited from ultra-favorable conditions playing in super-teams and off-balanced leagues. That is also true for Messi. As soon as they don't enjoy these conditions anymore, they don't dominate as much (see their respective records vs elite NT...) and don't appear to be better than legends of the past.
Platini's international career trumps Cristiano's but Cristiano's club career also trumps Platini's. In the modern era, I'd probably give the edge to CR because international tournaments have become less important relatively speaking.
You can't compare, because of the reasons stated above. Rather: look at what Platini did against the strong teams before he moved to Juventus. The absolute number of it, and proportionally. It is quite strong in my eyes. HSV was an elite level team in those days, PSV had been #1 in ClubElo a few months before when he faced them. Look at the 'big game' scoring sources mentioned above (and unlike Zidane it isn't massively inflated by penalties; unless Zidane won those himself ofc but that didn't happen too often). To play the devil's advocate here: Cristiano while playing for 15 consecutive years for one of the top two or three richest teams on the planet (Manchester United was #1 or #2 in the 'Money League' when he was there, except 2007; Real Madrid #1 or #2) has 'only' 5 league titles in those 15 years - and the league is the real barometer of regularity.
But then you're also ignoring the modern context. There is essentially no superstar who has put in the kind of superhero performance that we associate with the stars of old. Particularly, in the last 3 World Cups, all the winning teams most memorable aspect is their superior teamwork above others. The game has changed. It is simply impractical to win major NT tournaments with superior individual talent now. The premise seems to be that if a Platini exists today, he would be able to put on the kind of 1984 performance in 2016, or Maradona of 1986 in 2018. They won’t. They can’t. Not unless they get to do it in a team with superior teamwork and coaching. Teams have become so good at neutralizing star players, and maximizing the team’s collective capabilities that if a team is incapable of matching these two abilities, they simply won’t win, no matter the level of the individual star in the team. This would be the equivalent of criticizing managers of the old days for not being able to put together teams with the same teamwork and systematic level as Spain 08-12. Nobody could’ve done it in 1970s. You could throw Pep back then, and he wouldn’t be able to do it either.