Various stuff I found from the 40s - 60s

Discussion in 'Soccer History' started by schwuppe, Jan 8, 2019.

  1. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    It's the Copa America 1967 Ideal Team
     
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  2. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    Two of the better SA wingers at mid 1960s, comparing each other: argentinian Raúl Bernao vs uruguayan Luis Cubilla.

    [​IMG]
     
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  3. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    Ten of the greatest argentinian centerbacks of the last 25 years (by 1967), comparing each others
    [​IMG]

    @poetgooner
     
  4. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    E.G. quoting Lo Sport Illustrato election of the best SA & World XI at 1967, april

    [​IMG]
    South America:
    ---------------- Mazurkiewicz
    Ubiñas --- Manicera --- Albretch --- Marzolini
    ------- Goncalves ------------- Rocha
    Solari ----- Spencer ----- Pelé ----- Joya

    World:
    ---------------- Yashin
    Ubiñas --- Voronin --- J.Charlton --- Facchetti
    ------ Goncalves -------------- Rocha
    Best ----- Spencer ----- Pelé ----- Joya
     
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  5. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Arsenal
    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Why was I tagged? lol
     
  6. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    I remember your FM database ;)
     
  7. schwuppe

    schwuppe Member+

    Sep 17, 2009
    Club:
    FC Kryvbas Kryvyi Rih
    That's Argentinian league and not Argentinian players right?
     
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  8. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    #33 msioux75, Apr 17, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2020
    Formations 4-3-3
    (ordering of players)

    ----------- 1
    4 ---- 2 ----- 6 ----- 3
    ----------- 5
    ----- 8 -------- 10
    7 -------- 9 --------- 11

    All-Time Boca 1965 vs 1981
    Boca's #6s starred in a 2-3-5 formation, so, Pescia and Arico Suárez are mainly LHB/LB, meanwhile Mouriño was a #5, this is DM.


    All-Time River 1965 vs 1981
    Must be said that Eduardo "Zurdo" Rodríguez played in Pyramid and WM formations, so as a #3 he played both CB and LB roles.

    All-Time Racing 1965 vs 1981
    Racing #6: Gutiérrez played both, Pyramid and WM, so he could be LB or LM.
    Sacchi and Basile played in the transition WM to 4-3-3, so, both are CBs.
     
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  9. peterhrt

    peterhrt Member+

    Oct 21, 2015
    Club:
    Leeds United AFC
    This was a massive project. Around a thousand voters from within the game in Argentina, picking their top ten players from the Argentine League between 1891 and 1966. That's 10,000 nominations and 55,000 "points" to distribute. Final overall Top 16:

    1. Moreno, 2. Pedernera, 3. Erico (Paraguay), 4. Pontoni, 5. Carrizo, 6. Sastre, 7. Walter Gómez (Uruguay), 8. Enrique García, 9. Néstor Rossi, 10. Marzolini, 11. Loustau, 12. Sivori, 13. Martino, 14. Labruna, 15. De la Mata, 16. Di Stéfano.

    On the face of it, Moreno coming first is no surprise. As we have heard elsewhere, at times some have compared him with Pelé and others ranked him above Di Stéfano and Maradona.

    However, things are not as clear-cut as they may seem. There were broadly, though not exclusively, three main categories of voter: current players, ex-players and journalists. Not one of these groups placed Moreno first. The current players went for goalkeeper Carrizo, who was still playing in 1966, and placed Moreno sixth.

    The ex-players favoured Pedernera followed by Moreno, while the journalists, whom one might expect to possess a keener sense of history, also left Moreno in sixth place - behind Pontoni, Erico, Enrique García, Pedernera and Sastre, in that order. All five played with or against Moreno so it was not a question of favouring footballers from another era.

    A published sample of 12 voters, admittedly small in the overall scheme of things, is also instructive. Six of them were over fifty years of age so would have seen a lot of football. Only one of the six put Moreno in first place. Two had him second (including River Plate's president who preferred Pedernera), one third, and the other two did not include him in their top ten at all. One of the last two, a director of Vélez Sarsfield, shared El Mundo's preference for the old amateurs, choosing Carricaberry first and Seoane second.

    None of the six under-50 voters placed Moreno first either. One had him second, two fourth, and three did not include him at all. The first choices of these six were Pedernera, goalkeeper Gualco from the 1940s, and four current players Carrizo, Di Stéfano, Sivori and the Brazilian Dino Sani who spent just one season in the Argentine league. Di Stéfano spent four years there and Sivori three so it is clear that their subsequent careers were taken into account.

    Moreno of course also played in other leagues, which might have cost him a few votes but surely not that many. Three quarters of his matches were in Argentina whereas Di Stéfano, Sivori and Sani spent most of their time elsewhere. In 1993 Moreno was voted best foreigner to have appeared in the Chilean league by the minuto 90 publication, despite appearing in only 34 matches there. He also won league titles in Mexico and Colombia, playing forty-odd games in each of their leagues.

    For comparison, Maradona played just under half his league football in Argentina and Messi none at all. One can understand why Moreno's overall reputation might suffer in comparison with Argentinians with a European profile. But within Argentina he does not on this evidence appear to have been regarded quite as far ahead of his contemporaries, and those who came before him, as might be supposed.
     
  10. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Arsenal
    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    That is such an interesting find man. Thank you for sharing with us. Given the internet, I wonder how people 50 years from now will view the thousands of rankings that are made today.
     
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  11. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    Campioni dello Sport, Panini 1966 (september)

    Album with photos of the best sportmen in every sport. I'm focus in Calcio section.
    [​IMG]

    Footballers in Serie-A
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Footballers around the World

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG] .
     
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  12. ManiacButcher

    ManiacButcher Member

    Palmeiras
    Argentina
    May 23, 2004
    Brasil
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    A curious top 10 list of the best foreign players that played in brazilian fields. The best being the ones with remarkable performances in Brazil, not necessarily a historical assessment. Made by the newspaper "Mundo Esportivo - SP" in 1951.

    1 - Sastre; 2 - Bacigalupo; 3 - O. Varela; 4 - Pedernera; 5 - Moreno; 6 - Praest; 7 - Mitic; 8 - Boye; 9 - Viola (Juventus); 10 - Skoglund.
     
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  13. ManiacButcher

    ManiacButcher Member

    Palmeiras
    Argentina
    May 23, 2004
    Brasil
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    The best south american players that Sergio Livingstone (Legendary GK - Chile) saw on the field (Source: Mundo Esportivo - SP):
    Domingos da Guia, Jair RP and Heleno de Freitas (Bra);
    Varela and Porta (Uru);
    Salomón and Moreno (Arg);
    A. Erico and Marin (Leocadio?) (Par).
     
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  14. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    Brazil AllTime XI by Zizinho, Manchete Esportiva 1955.

    ----------------- Batatais
    D.Santos ------- Domingos da Guia ------- N.Santos
    ------------- Danilo ------------------ Jayme
    --------- Romeu ------------------------- Jair
    P.Amorim -------------- Heleno -------------- Vevé

    Made in a Pyramid ordering (#4 in Brazil's tactics = Right Back in 3-2-5)
     
  15. ManiacButcher

    ManiacButcher Member

    Palmeiras
    Argentina
    May 23, 2004
    Brasil
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    The journal shows the team in a 2-3-5, which is the default tactic, with almost all teams with "linhas médias - right half, center half and left half".
    Batatais; Domingos da Guia - N.Santos;
    D.Santos - Danilo - Jayme; Romeu - Jair; P.Amorim - Heleno - Vevé.
    3-2-5 is the defensive formation, with the "central" CB marking the CF, the second CB marking one of the wingers and the side half with better defensive abilities dropping back from the "linha-média" to mark the other winger. In this case, Djalma Santos, the defensive right half. And Jaime the constructive left half.

    Curious point: Zizinho played for São Paulo F.C., but only one player from his selection did not play in Rio de Janeiro State, Djalma Santos.
     
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  16. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    Felix Loustau
     
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  17. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    Rinaldo Martino
     
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  18. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
  19. Titanlux

    Titanlux Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Nov 27, 2017
  20. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    Titanlux repped this.

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