What if the Ballon d'Or was awarded to all players from any origin & club?

It does give strength to my past beliefs that 1988 and 1989 would have gone to Van Basten, while Matthaus would have fended off Maradona in 1990. I still think Maradona would have fought off Gullit in 1987 for the top spot, but no official poll was conducted.

 

So with the added information, thanks to @PuckVanHeel, the following years of 1987-1990 could well have panned out like this:

1987 Maradona-Gullit
1988 Van Basten, Maradona, Gullit
1989 Van Basten, Baresi, Gullit
1990 Matthaus, Maradona, Schillachi

 

Yes, might well be, but this are the coaches and not the journalists.

The criticism of the 'FIFA world player' became that it favored the bigger and established names (or 'brands'), more so than the Ballon d'Or. Thus Zidane became three times world player (instead of one), Ronaldo three times world player (instead of two), Ronaldinho two times (instead of one) etcetera.

If journalists had continued to vote then also Messi and Ronaldo each would have one Ballon d'Or less (Sneijder, Ribery, and even Iniesta coming close in 2012 among the journalists). This instead of coaches and captains.

https://en.as.com/en/2016/09/21/football/1474462524_499338.html

Thus that it are journalists to vote, and not coaches, is more than a trivial change.


At the end of 1987, after the Napoli game (that was the first match after voted for BdO), Gullit had a grade by Gazzetta dello Sport that was a respectable 0.53 points higher than Maradona. This are the journalists by arguably the premier publication of Italy, who do the grading in the best possible way (with Guerin Sportivo up there, or as 2nd best, who had also Gullit by some margin higher).

When assessing the quality of the players (done by Sandro Mazzola), Gullit received a total of 80.0 points (for technique, heading, tactical intelligence etc.) and Maradona 80.5 points.

Maradona received a 9/10 for his supposed influence on the team, which is kind of arguable in comparison to Gullit (7/10) at his best. Factually speaking, over a longer period of time.


Takeway is: the journalists voted it, not the coaches, and also not the fans of Italy.

"Italy loves Gullit more than Maradona (25-01-1988)

A survey by La Gazzetta dello Sport has shown that Ruud Gullit is currently more popular across Italy than Diego Maradona. Gullit received 52.2 percent of the votes, Maradona 44.5 percent. The remaining 3.3 percent left the question unanswered. Gullit has its fans mainly among the middle class and the industrialists (70.7), the students (60.5), among the young people from 15 to 24 years (66.4) and the women (57.9). The supporters of Maradona are mainly in the 25 to 44 age group (53.6), among the workers and farmers (52.4) and among the people of southern Italy. Maradona is not popular among women (39.3 percent)."


That while Maradona spoke (even) better Italian than Gullit, and the long going Italy-Argentina connection. In 1991 Gazzetta dello Sport gave Maradona a 9 for his Italian, the joint-highest of everyone, Gullit only a 6.5 (MvB a 7)

Of course, Gullit himself said there is no rivalry and normally Maradona is the bigger player.

 

Recently he spoke about that Maradona documentary (with the creator Asif Kapadia also there).

Gullit said he'd give 1986 and 1987 probably to him if he has to make a choice, but not for the later years.

 

Yes, it’s possible that’s how things would have panned out. What’s unquestionable is that they were perceived as the two best in the world and had it not been for Euro 88 and Van Basten’s masterpiece, more than likely the top two remain the same as in 1987.


https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/se...-player-ratings.2085771/page-52#post-38160502

 

For Van Basten the euro 1988 tournament was certainly a necessary condition to roll the dice, but he had also a useful contribution at the end of the 1987-88 season in my estimation, when Milan faced a tough schedule at the business end and with tiring legs. He had two relatively late winners and also a necessary assist for the championship. This is a quality goal. Another 'forgotten' quality goal in the 1990-91 season.

Milan lost some points before when Gullit missed almost two full matches after cynically applauding the referee (without commentary by him) for what he felt a successive string of big calls against Milan in the competition. This was at the end of 1989-90, costing the league, a deja vu for him.

Van Basten had also a great start at the beginning of the 1988-99 season, for the national team and in the European Cup as well. Combined with euro 1988 it won the journalist and coaches vote. If only Italian journalists vote it, then maybe his odds (and Gullit's) will be smaller.

Certainly with the benefit of hindsight and modern perspectives I'd argue Van Basten had a tremendous impact on both Ajax and later Milan, with a sudden decline in Milan's performances - more so relative to opposition - after he was struck down.

Alas, it's not exclusively because of euro 1988 I think. 'World Soccer' readers voted him #3 for 1987, Onze Mondial #2 despite his injury issues that year.

 

FWIW, Pele won the Sao Paulo Player of the Year award '58 unanimously getting 156/156 votes.



In another vote he got the overall award.

 

He did though.

 

We now know that 1987 what may have occurred, according to several sources but now 1988 has another view, according to Gazzetta dello Sport’s own Ballon d’Or:

 

Hat-trick for Maradona, according to italian sources: 1986-1987-1988.

Also, i must add that they are the most credible ones, since both Diego and his main rivals (Gullit-Van Basten) for an hypotehical global Ballon d'Or played in Italy at that time.

 

It’s a valuable find and it’s the confirmation that Didi was viewed by many (apparently journalists) as the best player of the 1958 World Cup.

 

There's more. Keep in mind that the survey was done before the semifinals took place

 

Disagree with this notion.

Italians can be very tribal and their friendship with Argentina is well known - at the time almost half of the Argentine population was of Italian origin. Maradona spoke almost perfect Italian, the other foreigners didn't.

Fact is Maradona did not win the direct precursor to the FIFA World Player of the Year vote, despite the odds being stacked in his favor.

Hugo Sanchez in the top three? That shows the colors quite well again. Was he on fire for his national team or in continental competitions while he was practically a pure goalscorer? Not really. He was over a longer time a difference maker though (by actual facts; edit: and he does feature quite high by 'GoalImpact' too..) and there's a case he is the best striker of the entire 1980s as a whole.

It was a tournament year yes, but as we've all seen Maradona received grades below 6 in both Milan games (87-88) and he individually didn't make a super big impact at continental level with the club (0 open play goals, 3 open play assists in the 88-89 campaign; 0 goals and 0 assists in 87-88).

So journalists who are as always heavily swayed by a few major games...

 

Maradona won the scoring title in Serie A during the 1987-88, and was along with Gullit the player with the most top 10 of the week appearence by Guerin Sportivo, 12 selections.
I mean, Van Basten was fantastic during Euro 88, but he scored just 3 goals in only 11 appearence during the 87.88 Serie A season. Did he really deserve the Ballon d'or in 88 considering that before Euro 88 no one considered him competing for the World Best title?

Also, please this "italians are closer to Argentina people" is ridicolous.
So for example France Football award is against italian and argentina people because french people notoriously dont like them? Cmon now.
Italian journalist imo are the most credible source for Van Basten Gullit and Maradona 88 campaign. It was not like today, it was difficult to follow Serie A games back then from other countries.

 

Need to add Zico to 82, decent World Cup, strong club season and Bola D'Ouro.

 

Figueroa has a good challenge over Blokhin in 75, and Beckenbauer in 77, probably less the later, I also find Simonssen a bit of weak award in 77 so a Reinaldo or Zico. Kempes trumps Keegan for 78 in my opinion.

 

I think we should probably remember that this (both the Ballon d'Or and probably the Italian poll too - look at Gullit's placing - surely based mainly on 87/88 he'd be put higher than that?) are calendar year assessments and probably moreso in those days than today where things are skewed a lot and people do often refer to the previous season in full and the Ballon d'Or is discussed in detail way ahead of the end of the year.

 

He wasn't the topscoring guy when excluding penalties (then he's just two ahead of Gullit) and he wasn't exactly the most accurate shooter or finisher. Close to 120 shots in the 1986-87 Serie A season, 8 non-penalty goals, according to data Vegan10 showed.

I've already given my take above. He had a good end of the 1987-88 season and a strong start of 1988-89. He scored 14 goals in 25 games for Milan that year (19 starts). Add in the assists and it was a strong delivery for Milan. That's without the national team scene (5 non-penalty goals in 9 games, 5 in 7 starts including the first hat-trick against England since the 1950s).

He was #3 in the 1987 World Soccer vote, #2 in the Onze Mondial vote.

Those rankings happened despite the handicap of not having the weight of the the likes of FIFA, Havelange, Grondona, Moggi, Ferlaino, Allodi behind you (Havelange in 1994 admitted he helped to shield Maradona; in 1992 he said a World Cup in USA cannot do without a good performing Maradona).

It's well known certain backgrounds (big cultures, big languages) come at a premium in the market and among the public at large. One of those studies say (from 2016):

"Neymar and James Rodriguez are two outliers. Their average market values seem disproportionate compared to their productivity. However this does not necessarily mean that they are overvalued over the period. First, these two players are really young in the observed time span, which increases strongly their market value. Second, we only take into account the “on-field” productivity of players and not the externalities they generate “off-field” such as sponsoring contracts or merchandising products. Since Neymar and James are world stars, the amount of money they generate off-field may compensate the gap between their productivity on-field and their market value."

No it isn't. Even Vegan10 said previously this influenced the appointment of the 1978WC final referee (an Italian). Putting Hugo Sanchez ahead another strong sign in that direction.

If you have a vote for the best player in the world and the most talented in the world then Maradona might win it every year (including 1990) but that is not how the Ballon d'Or works.

Journalists today don't follow each game either. They are - among other things - swayed by a few big games and moments. That often makes the difference between a top five rank and the top.

In those 'big games' Maradona just didn't show up against Milan (#1) and Roma (#3 in the table). His grades didn't go higher than 6.5 by any source Vegan10 showed and that's saying something. Those Napoli vs Milan games did make the print of the foreign media (The Times etcetera), including the context this was the first game after Gullit received the BdO.

The start of the next season (1988-89) is a lot better yes though both Juventus and Milan were collectively in poor form and not at their best (without a few of their the best players playing). Maradona definitely wins points for these games (but not vs later champs Inter).

Same applies to the continental scene where Maradona was underwhelming/disappointing. From what I've seen Careca had a higher average grade in those 87/88, 88/89 matches and I remember @schwuppe saying he had the impression the 'wow' factor was lacking. In 1987-88 and the 1988 part of 1988-89 he had one goal (a penalty, won by Careca) and two assists (one from a set piece, headed in by defender Francini) in 8 games. Against PAOK and Leipzig.

National team:


Undoubtedly we see a guy of tremendous talent and in great physical shape (sharp physique helps the technique), he has some dribbles, draws fouls, not so much great passes, one tackle by him, but realistically there are only two moments where this free role player produced direct danger. The free kick at 3:30 (drawn by a team-mate) and the pass at 5:50 to the quick Caniggia (it's comparing apples with oranges here, but for example MvB vs Denmark in the 1992 semi final caused six/seven times direct danger).

Maradona was unfortunate there was no major tournament for him this year, but what he did (in that preparation tournament among the big market nations) against the same type of countries (and lower level teams) isn't immediately of the level that puts the euro 1988 top performers in the shadow.


So I think Maradona his talent, the weight of his name, the backing and support he had, the overall performance level might carry him a long way but it doesn't immediately mean he wins the Ballon d'Or. The World Player of the Year vote is traditionally more in favor of the big names (Zidane, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Messi, Cristiano won more of those than the journalist vote) and Maradona didn't run away with that either.

He won zero team trophies in 1988 - journalists are sensitive to that - and was generally underwhelming (with few/no 'wow' performances) at the big games and the big stages. It's also not like MvB had a shortage of football talent; if he was fit and all was well he could also nutmeg opposition world class defenders on a sixpence (3:01). Like a Paolo Futre or Gullit he was a proper footballer.

 

Guerin Sportivo article of 2005 on this:

https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/the-ballon-dor-revised-france-football-2015.2089344/#post-37331279

It is implied they would change 1986, that is for sure, but not later editions like 1990 for example (what FF did).

 

Romário in La Liga 93/94: 0.98 NPG + 0.46 A per 90 minutes = 1.44 / (91 Barcelona Goals in 38 La Liga matches) = 1.44/2.39 = 60.25% of proportional direct participation.

Suarez in La Liga 15/16: 1.06 NPG + 0.45 A per 90 minutes = 1.51 / (112 Barcelona Goals in 38 La Liga matches) = 1.51/2.95 = 51,2% of proportional direct participation.

 

What's your point?

 

He just felt like taking a swipe at the vampire

I think suarez of 13/14( particularly the first half )wasnt objectively inferior to any CF of the last 30 odd years



In 15/16 he had great raw statistics but he was more of a role player and restricted
All of his 40 la liga goals came in the penalty area most with one touch

Perhaps he is here more comparable to hugo Sanchez 89/90

Of course his assists cannot be overlooked and i don't recall the mexican having a great all round


One thing that does go in favour of suarez 15/16 is his champions league performance which was also objectively a level above Romario 93/94
It seems Romario only turned up for la liga
Maybe he was drunk,hungover or both during copa del Rey and champions league fixtures

 

Yes, but you're forgetting that playing well in the World Cup excuses all, which is how we know Modric winning the Ballon D'or was the correct decision

 

Messi in La Liga 12/13 playing as CF: 1.43NPG + 0.37A per 90 minutes = 1.80 / (115 Goals in 38 La Liga matches) = 1.80 / 3.03 = 59,4% of proportioanl direct participation.

Romario with Barcelona in 93/94 = La Liga Champion, CL Runner up, World Cup Champions.

I said one that Romario had around 50% of direct involvement in his PSV carrer as well, but it miss a lot of assists, his direct involvement in PSV goals was probably very close to 60%! and he took just few penalties to reach this number of involvement! In Brazil the same all over 50%.

Romario in his peak with Messi and Neymar around him will probably reach 60 Non-PK Goals! in La Liga 15/16 with 25 assists. You can't compare someone with average skills with the probably most technical striker of all time with a goat level striker (like Maradona playing as 9).

 

Funny thing that imo Modric wasnt the best RM player in La Liga (that was nobody, the team was horrible, ended in 3rd), in CL (that was Marcelo imo) and his WC was meh.
It's like Suarez 'no inferior to nobody' in 13/14 scoring a bunch of goals and show up against minors in the PL league and being a totally negative asset for his team in the WC14.
Unpopular opinion: Salah 17/18 > Suarez 13/14, carried Liverpool in the PL TOP4, carried Liverpool to the CL finals and did the best possible with Egypt as well, he deserved that Ballon d'Or.