I think their sellout number is 27-28K. Nippert holds more for UC football but FCC doesn't normally make all the seats available. So the 30K will be considered a sellout.
But the red bulls are showing that neither stars nor winning really make a big difference in the market. Not in the long or medium term any way.
I don't know if RBA would have worked out of it hadn't been for Thierry Henry, considering it's such a schlep. But imagine the Red Bulls with Bale and NYC with Ronaldo. I think you'd see significantly fewer empty seats.
I can certainly see the league being in big trouble if that was to happen in 2020 because it would cost like $500 million to make it happen. Maybe 2025
That is what I thought. I would love to know the actual numbers on this as it affects the thread I maintain with capacity percentages, etc.
I mostly agree with this take and I hope you're right (because it gives me hope that the NYC market could evolve). The only thing I'll add is the following: I've lived in three different MLS markets since 2005 (Columbus, DC, and now NYC). I've been a STH in all three of those markets (w/ RBNY being my team here in NYC for the last 8 years). My little brother worked for the Fire back in late 00s. I've visited nearly every stadium in MLS (some multiple times). I've coached both grassroots and elite club soccer teams in each of these cities. In my experience, New York City is quite possibly the least-hospitable market for domestic soccer that I've experienced thus far. In fact, I wouldn't even say that opinions on MLS here are "neutral/indifferent." New Yorkers are outwardly hostile toward MLS with a vigor that surprises me to this day. There's a sort of attitude here that bends toward, "I can only prove that I'm a real soccer fan if I first excoriate MLS and the people who prop it up." To my mind, the only other thing that could possible change the equation here (beyond the extreme "star power" idea you posited above) is if NYCFC builds a state-of-the-art SSS in a subway-accessible location. And I don't even know if that's a slam dunk idea, to be honest.
https://matchcenter.mlssoccer.com/matchcenter/2019-03-17-fc-cincinnati-vs-portland-timbers/recap MOMENT OF THE MATCH: The energy was palpable all week in the buildup to the Orange and Blue’s MLS home opener, and then Kendall Waston brought the house down. The towering center back headed Leonardo Bertone's free kick, causing pure elation from the capacity crowd of 32,500. I don't know if they closed off some seats vs. Columbus for fan segregation.
I visited NYC this summer and I was SHOCKED at the availability of NYFC and NYRB gear all over the city as well as in advertising and such. I saw far more than the Jets, Devils, Nets and Knicks while I was there. Sure, none of those were in season, but the brands were very prominent, much more than I suspected. That said, I also made the trek to Harrison and the Bronx and I must say, Harrison isn't that hard to get to, but holy cow is it a terrible location. I don't see why anybody outside of the immediate vicinity (Newark, Jersey City, Harrison) would want to bother getting to it. It was easy, but expensive and frankly a journey to an industrial wasteland. Yankee Stadium sucks as a soccer stadium. It really sucks and it's immediately transparent that it's not for a soccer team. It's the stadium of the most famous baseball franchise in the world. As such, I absolutely understand why the locals are crapping all over MLS. They should. Both MLS teams have done a half assed job. One plays in an industrial wasteland and the other in a baseball stadium. One is named after a beverage and the other looks like the farm team of Manchester City. I don't know how you get respect for those teams at all. If you plopped either of those in Seattle, Vancouver, Atlanta, etc, I don't see it going much better.
I live in the West Village (Manhattan) and go to 15+ games at RBA every season. It takes me about an hour, door-to-door, using the PATH/subway. While I'm not going to be mad if someone describes it as a "journey," it's hardly expensive. It's $5.50 one-way ($2.75 on the PATH, $2.75 on the subway). And it would be the same price for anyone else that uses the subway (regardless of their point of origin). At the risk of coming across as strident, I think I also generally disagree with the theme(s) in the rest of your post too (based on the many conversations I've had with people in the soccer community here). People here don't even know enough about RBNY and/or NYCFC to make a judgment call on the obstacles you describe. They're willfully blind to MLS and they're proud of it. There's not even the vague curiosity about MLS that I've witnessed in other cities. Fans here support one of the Big 4 Euro Superclubs or a big team from South America. They're long-time soccer fans and they don't see any need to add new allegiances (local or otherwise). I won't dispute that RBNY and NYCFC could be managed better (or have better stadium situations), but I strongly suspect that people here would just move the goalposts even if those obstacles were eliminated/improved.
Absolutely agree!!! I have only lived in New York, but visited about 10 other stadiums for away games and have talked to a lot of soccer fans. The eurosnobbery in NYC is just on another level. You've got 10-year old kids who ABSOLUTELY agree with this!!! I have only lived in NY, but I have been to about 10 stadiums for away games, I travel for work a lot, and talk soccer with a lot of people. Eurosnobbery is just on another level in NY! You've got 10-year old boys who live and breath soccer, but have never seen an MLS game live or on TV because their dad has convinced them that "it's not real soccer". I play soccer with soccer loving men and a lot of them have only heard about NY having a team, but would have no idea that there are 2 teams, where they play, what the season looks like, etc. It's quite a novelty for me to run into a person on the street wearing an RBNY or an NYC jersey. I don't know what will help this market.
Very much so. I think that even if they brought in stars (not talking about Ronaldo or Messi of course), it wouldn't move the needle. Most of these MLS haters would just assume that Player X is now retired by virtue of joining their local team and hence not worth following anymore.
It is hard to argue against the retirement argument when MLS is eager to sign players in their mid thirties on a regular basis.
The only thing that would move the needle in NY is if an EPL team relocated to NYC. That team would probably sellout Metlife stadium.
I fail to see how somebody could be blind to these clubs when their branding is all over the place. I saw it everywhere I went. Manhattan, Brooklyn, Newark, Harrison (Obviously), and even in the Bronx (didn't make it to Queens). Window dressings, jerseys for sale, stand ups, billboards, store displays. Hell, I'd call the Timbers a VERY visible MLS team in Portland and I would put NYRB and NYFC being nearly as visible in their market. Compared to the Yankees? No, of course not. I just don't see how people keep trotting out this visibility line when my brief experience was riddled with signs of both of these clubs and to a degree far exceeding my expectations (and I'm not talking about in stadium) Also, PATH was closed to and from Manhattan when I was there, so it wasn't so cheap, though I can imagine PATH helps hugely for somebody in Manhattan. I can see how that'd be easy, and I did say that it was easy to get to and hold to that even without PATH (I'm a walker and willing to walk quite a bit to get where I need to and Newark Penn Station to RBA wasn't too far for me. As to the word "journey", I used it simply as a word to describe going from one place to another. However, having said that, you live on the west side of Manhattan, the closest place in NYC to Harrison and it takes you an hour and $5.50. Ok cool. That's a little long for my preferences in terms of transit alone (that's about as bad as it gets where I live), but not expensive. Now, how long does it take for somebody in Brooklyn, Queens or Bronx? I'm not asking to be a twit, I'm asking because I don't know and knowing that yours is an hour (which I figured it to be less TBH) makes me very curious. Somebody please enlighten me.
That's the max capacity for soccer but they don't usually have that many seats for sale. Most games are capped at around 28K.
I'm a season ticket holder for Atlanta United. From my door to the Chamblee train station is 51 miles. From there it's another 30 minutes by rail to the venue, $2.50 each way. I have to leave work early on weeknight matches like today. That's my "journey" and to me it's worth every penny. (Granted, I've never had a commute for work longer than 10 miles, so this trip every so often is quite bearable. Bottom line, if the destination is worth while the folks will come. I also think again we need to keep perspective and allow more time. MLS had a great growth spurt there and still remains strong but we still need time to let the league and team brands become familiar with the locals. At least today's kids have an MLS to see and follow, so they will grow up familiar with the scene. If the league continues to grow healthy with academies and at sustainable levels then eventually more fans will accept it as the domestic league and not need the Premier League, Serie A, etc. Things will get better.