Because it was Mexico. MEXICO. In case you havent been following the team lately, thats the big rivalry, the best competition, with some actual big names on their team. And if we have the Mexico game this year it will sell out again, even in the bigger Gillette Stadium. If we play Panama or T&T here, expect a smaller crowd. The same thing will be true if these games are played anywhere else in the country. The Gold Cup game you are referring to was on a weekday and it was against Martinique. 1. WHO AND WHERE IS MARTINIQUE? 2. Who plays for Martinique? 3. Am is spelling Martinique correctly? 4. Do you know anyone in this country that is from Martinique or knows anybody that is? 5. Who cares about the Gold Cup in comaprison to WCQ's. I like the Gold Cup, but unfortunaly not many others do. I would wager a pretty large bet that that 5k was the largest crowd any of those players from Martinique have ever played in front of. Thomas, if you can give me an example i will give you positive rep, in any point in US soccer history, where a game against a crapy team like Cuba, Grenada, Martinique, or any other low level opponent drew a crowd that is bigger than the ones this year. Its simple, any meaningful game against a poor team will draw a small crowd, a meaningless game against a poor team will draw nobody, especially on a weekday. If we play Mexico in a friendly, you will see a huge crowd, anywhere. A WCQ against Mexico will sell out almost any stadium in the country even on a weekday. The simple fact is that since the 2002 WC, we have not had any meaningful games against a big opponent, and even before the 2002 WC we could not draw big crowds for those games. When we played Mexico, of course I believe it sold out both of the stadiums it was played in, and they were friendly's. So right now, I dont see any decline in attendance. Especially in the easy to make profit stadium we routinely play games in Foxboro. Now if someone see's where I am wrong here, please tell me.
Stop, or just start making sense, please choose one. In 2000, it was Costa Rica, a good team. In 2001 it was MEXICO, in a very important match. This year, it was two meaningless (basically) matches against horrible opposition.
Recent memory vs non-Jamaica Caribbean countries: 9/15/90 vs Trinidad 11,361 (High Point, NC) 6/29/91 vs Trinidad 18,435 (Pasadena, probably Gold Cup DH) 11/14/93 vs Cayman Islands 3,612 (Mission Viejo) 1/13/96 vs Trinidad 12,425 (Anaheim) 11/10/96 vs Trinidad 19,312 (Richmond, VA, WCQ) 2/1/98 vs Cuba 11,234 (Oakland, Gold Cup) 8/16/00 vs Barbados 18,334 (Foxboro, WCQ) 6/20/01 vs Trinidad 31,211 (Foxboro, WCQ) 1/21/02 vs Cuba 31,628 (Pasadena, Gold Cup DH w/MEX-GUA)
Before we start saying the sky is falling and that US support is in decline can we PLEASE wait until at least ONE hex game has been played before we compare hex support between 2001 and 2005?!
Revsfan, didn't we draw 9000 for a US Cuba game in the Gold Cup in 2001, the one we won 1-0 and the some Cubans defected? Some of the Martinique players are pros so I am sure they have played in front of some decent crowds. You can never get a perfect, side by side match. Even if you compare two games in the same stadium against the same team, the weather wil be different. So will the importance of the game. It isn't just a Wednesaday night problem. We sold out in Columbus on 2 Wednesday nights nights. the Grenada game was do or die and we got 10,000. How many were Grenadians? Didn't we draw 37,000 in Foxboro for a meaningless game against El Salvador in 1997? WE had already qualified. Look at the crowd in Foxboro against El Salvador this time (Godld Cup and qualifier).
The Grenada game was not meaningless. It was a World Cup Qualifier in a 2 game series. It does not get much bigger than that.
January, 2002 and it was over 30k. Of course the Mexico/El Salvador (not Guatemala) game that followed might've helped the attendance a bit. then exactly what have your previous five or six posts in thread tried to do? Do or Die? Are you ********ing kidding me? We had 180 minutes to go against Grenada, and you're calling it "do or die"? WTF. Excuse me if I give a bit of credit for the buying American public for being able to discern the difference between the first leg vs Grenada and any game vs Mexico or Costa Rica. Ah the master of obsfucation. Let's go from Columbus to Foxboro. Sure. November 16, 1997 vs El Salvador. 53,193. Let me ask this (not expecting an answer), do you ever get any facts right? Even when they help your point.?
There was virtually no suspense or pressure going into that game. If we had only won 1-0 or maybe 2-0, then the second leg would've been interesting. If you can't tell the difference, then I can't help you.
Funny, there were threads here after the Grenada game and the Jamaica game bemoaning the lousy attendance, I guess those people were wrong too. I guess Revsfan won't admit he was wrong about the 5000 figure for Cuba games, but that is Ok. It is supposed to be a friendly discussion..... Andy and others are ignoring the other aspect of national team support. I am not just talking about attendance. That is one component. But an increasing number of fans at national team games are for the opposition. It is impossible to get precise numbers on this. But the trend is against us there too. Look at my first post in this thread. How about ORGANIZED FAN SUPPORT? Four years ago we got, for perhaps the first time, a big contingent for an away qualifier. This time we will not match that for the game in Mexico. Don't tell me it is the strike. The writing was on the wall a week ago before the strike issue came up. No matter how much I beg people or other die hards beg people we will have a small showing in Mexico. Better than nothing, yes. But look at the title of the thread. You all understand the word declining don't you? Sam's Army is not at all active. US Supporters seem dead in the water. Long-term, dedicated fans have washed their hands of all this and stopped going to games or cajoling others. Many have been hounded away by venal, petty "fans". It we are doing so well where is organized fan support? Why is that stagnating at best?
Really? You think that Tom? You're are guessing there won't be as many people in Mexico. Assuming the game is Azteca I will have to bookmark your comments so after the match we can go back and see you were wrong...you have no facts to base your "theories" upon. No, it's called nobody cares to be part of organizations. Why do I need to be a member or Sams Army when I can just be a "fan" of the national team and support them without having a name attached to me? I could care less about Sams Army, US Supporters, or whatever else people wanna call themselves. I'm a fan of US Soccer and I will continue to support them like many other without a name attach to ourselves.
I'm in Marketing/Sales for my company. Let's face it: the WC home qualifiers so far have been a tough sell! Now, the price of poker goes up: and the crowds will come to the qualifiers played at home. The "pent up" demand from 2002 will take over... It's been a dream of mine - one of those "once in my life I'd like to" - to see a game at Azteca. I'm going, no matter what! And I hope the March game surely won't be anywhere but Azteca. After all the posturing between USSF and the Mexican Federation is over, 110,000 tickets sold in Mexico (in two hours) will do the talking.
I could be wrong about the American presence in Azteca. (Soccer Vacations is showing that as the site and I have never seen them wrong on this kind of thing). I suspect that there will be fewer American fans than 4 years ago. I know it is a long way but it was a long way in 2001 as well.
What are you talking about? I'm pretty sure your the one who brought the 5000 figure into this discussion. I just took it from your post thinking that you have some credibility which you later proved not to have.
For those who are intested here's some numbers Home attendance figures for WC Qualifying since 1996: Date Opponent Location Attendance 11/3/96 Guatemala Washington 30,082 11/10/96 T&T Richmond 19,312 12/14/96 Costa Rica Palo Alto 40,527 3/16/97 Canada Palo Alto 28,896 4/20/97 Mexico Foxboro 57,407 9/7/97 Costa Rica Portland 27,369 10/3/97 Jamaica Washington 51,528 11/16/97 El Salvador Foxboro 53,193 8/16/00 Barbados Foxboro 18,334 9/3/00 Guatemala Washington 51,996 10/11/00 Costa Rica Columbus 24,430 2/28/01 Mexico Columbus 24,624 4/25/01 Costa Rica Kansas City 37,319 6/20/01 T&T Foxboro 31,211 9/1/001 Honduras Washington 54,282 10/7/01 Jamaica Foxboro 40,483 6/13/04 Grenada Columbus 9,137 9/4/04 El Salvador Foxboro 25,266 10/13/04 Panama Washington 19,793 11/17/04 Jamica Columbus 9,088 http://www.ussoccer.com/teams/stats_results.sps?iType=265&icustompageid=9560
Why the hostility Andy? You have been saying some of these things for years. Remember the endless threads about support groups in the US? Are you really now saying that national support is doing OK or even getting better? If so you are contradicting lots of prior posts that you have made.
First off, everything is going to improve now that Sam's Army has found their flag that was temporarily lost in Chicago. I would agree that there seems to be some malaise, but there are a number of factors. I think the USSF got cheap and started to use facilities that can help MLS owners make some extra cash and this has denegrated the USMNT's image in those markets. They're overexposed. I think a lot of us see that. As for Sam's Army, I don't know. I've never been affiliated with them, but I can say they certainly didn't show in any significant fashion for the US/Poland friendly in Chicago. So either Chicago has a poor Sam's Army contingent or Sam's Army has faded some. Some other anecdotal evidence would be the fan bases in some MLS markets seems to have faded. I would say Chicago, New England, New York, D.C. (at least prior to Adu) and maybe more have all had this problem as of late. It may be over exposure of soccer in general, and probably a host of other factors. The USSF is largely to blame I think. They have gotten in a rut, perhaps because it's logistically easier and less expensive to return to the same venues, but it may have hurt the team a bit. As most of us agree, it's probably time to expand the pool of potential venues and market the team to other regions again.
Because you're being an ass, Tom. You're completely playing fast and loose with facts. If you want to go on a non-factual rant, then be my guest. But you're trying to make a point that the facts don't back up - and your counterarguments are mere obsfucations - and you know it. Frankly, you're better than that. Or at least you should be.
"You cannot give Reputation to the same post twice." As if he even needed it. Ladies and gentlemen; the man, the myth, the legend: Andy Mead.
Not withstanding the fact that having a conversation about the state of USMNT fandom is valid... Tom, perhaps not too many people are excited about you issuing a rallying cry towards Azteca is because you're a self absorbed jackass? I know people say that you're a stand up guy in person, but nothing you've ever posted on these boards makes me want to say, 'Yeah hey let me go bunk up at a hostel with that guy!' If you want to have a conversation about the state of US fan culture fine. But don't pull your own delusions of grandeur into the conversation. Note: It's not like me to attack anyone on these boards personally, but gimmie an f'in break. I know you're into traveling, to a curiously disturbing degree, but getting 500-1000 people to show up with 'Sam's Army' outside of Boston is pretty impressive imo. Yet, you're talking about freaking Azteca? C'mon.
Does the US Soccer Federation help facilitate the purchase of tickets to USMNT matches that are played abroad (e.g., the 06 WC qualifying games to be played in Costa Rica, Guatemala, Mexico, Panama and Trinidad and Tobago) for US supporters? I've seen notices for US-based matches but not for US matches held overseas. (Also, Sam's Army may not be an option if I travel with my family).
Let's compare home attendance numbers for the 1998 World Cup and the 2006 World Cup (so far) 1998 round of qualifiers in the US 11/3/96 Guatemala Washington 30,082 11/10/96 T&T Richmond 19,312 12/14/96 Costa Rica Palo Alto 40,527 3/16/97 Canada Palo Alto 28,896 4/20/97 Mexico Foxboro 57,407 9/7/97 Costa Rica Portland 27,369 10/3/97 Jamaica Washington 51,528 11/16/97 El Salvador Foxboro 53,193 Roughly 38000 average. During the semis, average around 30,000 For the 2006 Cup 6/13/04 Grenada Columbus 9,137 9/4/04 El Salvador Foxboro 25,266 10/13/04 Panama Washington 19,793 11/17/04 Jamica Columbus 9,088 average around 15,000 All the insults in the world do not change these numbers. I am concerned and a few others are too.