It’s very disturbing that we are discussing that the PK was—literally—a text book example of “not handling,” yet a problem if the call was reversed by VAR.
No one can accuse him of favoring Brazil! I like him a lot. But he’s got questions to answer on both KMIs. That was a really weak 2CT when you see it again. Maybe PI for the 2CT? I know this. I don’t think Pitana is making either of those decisions that hurt Brazil.
It's totally fair to call it a careless charge, but it's one that is generally allowed in the penalty area in most pro men's matches.
Rejecting two OFRs is something. I understand this one. Given less often than it is, but you can’t say the ball was clearly within playing distance. And that’s a clear foul if it’s not so penalty seems fine with me. There are a lot of eyes on this match. It’s too bad the VARing and new Law stuff is so confusing/wrong. On the other hand, Tobar has done a great job actually controlling the match. As I said above, I like him. But there are some major incidents here that are problematic.
It really looked like an OFR that would just get the Peru players to shut up. Any early time gained when VAR first started from the players respecting the VAR checking and confirming a pen has gone away. This combined with the issue where players won't leave the field until a red is confirmed are two growing issues for IFAB.
What on earth was he doing going to 96:20 in a 2-goal game that was a final? There were three fouls and about five challenges from the point (the corner at 95:00) where everyone figured it was over. That more than anything is a blemish for me. Shows a lack of situational awareness.
This could have been, uh, a problem... TyC Sports (@TyCSports) Tweeted: Gabriel Jesús se fue caliente por la expulsión y ¡CASI TIRA EL VAR! https://t.co/55K7nurxRg Gabriel Jesús se fue caliente por la expulsión y ¡CASI TIRA EL VAR! pic.twitter.com/55K7nurxRg— TyC Sports (@TyCSports) July 7, 2019
Interesting that the Laws/refereeing expert on Telemundo is Marco Antonio Rodriguez, a referee who went to three WCs. Just a tad more experience than old Dr. Joe or the young woman on Fox! (Does it show?) Tobar did a creditable job on this match. KMIs were well done. (There are assessors out there who would deduct points for the loose badge. You all can think of at least one, I imagine!) PH
Hello refs forum, been a while since I posted here! And you might expect me to hate on this ref since I'm Brazilian. But, honestly? Though there are plenty of issues to point out individually, I think in the context of this Copa America he called a remarkable final. As a Brazil fan I thought he came in looking determined to make sure it didn't look like he was favoring Brazil but I think he did it "the right way" if there's such a thing. He didn't really make anything up. It did result in a rather tough sending off for Gabriel Jesus but GJ has plenty of blame there too, he was naive to make that challenge in that moment. The PKs were tough calls for different reasons and I would not call either one differently.
I very much agree with the first sentence. His overall match control and management was impressive. But the first penalty is unambiguously incorrect under the new Laws. There’s a picture from IFAB of exactly what happened with explicit guidance that this isn’t an offence. It’s very, very unfortunate that in the first high profile opportunity to get this new guidance right, on a continental final, the wrong outcome happened. That’s going to set a lot of referees back (either by giving some the wrong impression or having some have to face more dissent when they call it correctly). The other two KMIs were gutsy and defensible. I think reasonable people can judge those differently.
Notice I only said "well done." Once the decision was made, to overturn it by VAR favoring Brazil in Brazil could have turned out badly. This way, even though it was an unfortunate situation, he handled it well such that both teams accepted the decision. Ball contact with the hand on the grass is always going to be a problematical decision, with a fair amount of gray area, even with "explicit guidance." It is just so ingrained in the psyche of players, fans and referees. PH
Despite the fact that they are in completely natural positions when making a slide tackle. It is physically impossible to slide without one arm coming up in the air...
Some fun readings from Spanish newspaper Marca: "Tobar is set to officiate the clash between Peru and Brazil, yet he was forced to serve an eight-month footballing ban between 2012 and 2013 due to his connection with the 'Poker Club' scandal. As the Chilean media revealed at the time, this was a process where several referees met under the cloak of darkness to play cards, drink alcohol and decide who would referee each weekend's matches. The loser of these card games would be forced to officiate the matches given to the winner, as well as pay their own travel expenses." --- "A series of events and circumstances leading to the appointment Roddy Zambrano for the crunch semi-final affair, as well as his credentials alone, beg more than a few questions. Zambrano wasn't up to the task. He is not among the best Conmebol officials, but was handed the biggest game in South America. With Brazilian and Argentine officials not allowed, the choice of Chilean Roberto Tobar was a clear decision, but he had overseen Brazil against Paraguay in the quarter-finals, which ruled him out in what was a serious lack of foresight from the organising body. Zambrano was nervous from the beginning and never transmitted anything resembling calmness. Uruguayan Leodan Gonzalez was at the eye of a storm in the second round of fixtures as the VAR official called the attention of Brazilian referee Wilton Sampalo for a very slight handball, one that was very difficult to see, in Paraguay vs Argentina. After several viewings, a penalty was awarded to Argentina and Conmebol's response was to give Leodan some quiet time. Having been in action in the opening two rounds, he was left out of action until the Paraguayans had been eliminated and upon his return he did the exact opposite as before. In the South American Clasico he abandoned his duties entirely. Zambrano didn't go to check the monitor despite two questionable penalty decisions, one of which ended up with Brazil scoring after Sergio Aguero and Argentina were denied a penalty." https://www.marca.com/en/football/international-football/2019/07/05/5d1fa66fe2704ead9f8b456e.html https://www.marca.com/en/football/international-football/2019/07/05/5d1f1847ca474155468b45a4.html
VAR: "Hey man, you know I had to send down the handling PK with the new laws, right?" Ref: "I know, I just didn't want my career to end when I canceled the PK, so I decided it wasn't clear and obvious".
IFAB once again has just gotten it so spectacularly wrong with the law modifications. While, objectively, the Peru penalty is not handling according to the new laws, I really think it should be. You can't just allow players to haphazardly slide in the penalty area and take up space with their arms. Theoretically Silva could do what he did on the goal line and prevent the ball from rolling into an empty and it would not be handling. Compare it to the penalty kick in the Jamaica vs. Panama Gold Cup match that was "objectively" correct according to the Laws of the game. Not one player appealed for it, yet it was correct. In the Peru vs. Brazil match, Peru was screaming for it and yet it was objectively wrong. I haven't paid much attention to the Copa America over the years, but something has really stood out for me in regards to their referees. They aren't as lenient or flat out reckless in abdicating their responsibility to give cards like CONCACAF referees, but they aren't head and shoulders better than CONCACAF referees in their responsibility to protecting the players and the Laws of the Games. It's kind of a middle ground. Maybe, it's just a coincidence, but I've noticed they'll go out of their way to not give cards at times and keep the players in the game like CONCACAF referees and then just bizarrely throw out a red card or give a second caution send-off that's completely inconsistent with the way they have called the game or the way it's been call in the tournament. It's like they'll try to keep everyone in the game, and then get fed up with the players antics and produce a red card that no one expects. Take the Messi and Medel red cards. I'm 100% positive that isn't given if it was the Final or a knockout match. I think the referee tried to let the players dictate the game and stay out of the way and then just got fed up with them and haphazardly threw out the red cards like "ok, I've had enough." It was completely inconsistent with the tournament was refereed. Same thing with the Jesus red card yesterday. Completely inconsistent with the way the tournament and the game was officiated. In the Copa America Centenario in the US, Cunha had a match in Orlando between Costa Rica and Paraguay, I think, and he gave Kendall Waston a red card towards the end for SFP. It certainly was a red card worthy tackle, but the whole game, prior to that, was just a serious of mass confrontation and game disputes and he gave no cards at all for them. Then out of nowhere he gives a red card for SFP in the last 10 minutes. Maybe the heat got to him and he just had enough.
No it's not physically impossible at all, unless you consider me an incredible athlete, I can easily slide with my hands across my body.
It is pretty fascinating the insight Hislop gives in this video. He flat-out says that UEFA people felt X was handling and South American people felt X was not handling. IFAB decided X is handling, so he's not surprised South American officials aren't calling it the way IFAB decided because they disagreed during the relevant debates. The fact that the VAR had the "guts" (?) to flag the call as clearly wrong undermines his point only a slight bit. In the end, he's probably onto something. Despite all the efforts here to get something codified globally, if one culture agrees while another doesn't, how is consistency possible? And, yes, I'm looking at Mike Riley and England right now.