US vs Jamaica: post game

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by OWN(yewu)ED, Jul 4, 2019.

  1. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ghana
    I have yet to see him put in a performance since at Mexico in qualifying that I thought no one else could do. As he has aged they have been more gaps in his game. It will only get worse but hey club form has no barring on him. Roll on Rafa Bradley.
     
  2. Sad_Commercial

    Sad_Commercial Red Card

    United States
    Jul 4, 2019
    But most fans don't know what they're talking about.
     
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  3. Sad_Commercial

    Sad_Commercial Red Card

    United States
    Jul 4, 2019
    And lose games.
     
  4. TOAzer

    TOAzer Member+

    The Man With No Club
    May 29, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Really? We are winning now because of the kids. And the kids alone.
     
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  5. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Flankers generally create chances for others. That's the nature of the position. Forwards generally score goals. Again, that's the nature of the position. Mentality more than skill-set necessitated Donovan's positioning on the flanks.
    B1 isn't Concacaf. US aren't Dortmund. Players can be effective in different systems, different patterns of play, different environments, different levels, different players,...etc.
    Basic principle in football is you get best your scorers as close to goal as maximizes their effectiveness. For Donovan, the best place was on the flanks. Pulisic's game looks to be closer to goal.

    The US move to more of a double-pivot gets Pulisic closer to goal. That and the partnership with Arriola help to lighten the defensive load on Pulisic. The use of a non-attacking LB also helps in this regard, assuming Pulisic is stationed more to the left.
     
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  6. Sad_Commercial

    Sad_Commercial Red Card

    United States
    Jul 4, 2019
    Yes, last year we played the kids and took a lot of Ls. Same thing would happen in this case. When you play the youth you lose more games. Empirical fact.

    And we're not winning because of the "kids" alone.
     
  7. laxcoach

    laxcoach Member+

    United States
    Jul 29, 2017
    intermountain west
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No it's a team game but do you honestly think the US wins the last 2 games without CP and Wes?

    Another empirical fact: youth gets better every year with proper coaching and some PT. They don't if they're ignored.
     
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  8. Sad_Commercial

    Sad_Commercial Red Card

    United States
    Jul 4, 2019
    No, but I never said anything like that so there's nothing for me to defend.

    I'm for playing the best mix of youth and veterans.
     
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  9. Sad_Commercial

    Sad_Commercial Red Card

    United States
    Jul 4, 2019
    Youth gets better by getting first team minutes with their clubs. The youth has in no way been ignored by US Soccer either.
     
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  10. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Yes, and we are direly in need of one. There is only so much coaching that you can do from the sidelines. If the players themselves make smart adjustments then the results come quicker and better. The game against Curacao badly needed a guy stepping up and calling shots. According to the Bushnell article, against Jamaica Wes stepped up and told Ream to start making more positive passes. We need more of that even if it is from a teenager.
     
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  11. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    Pulisic and McKennie have been our best, but we have NOT won with kids alone. Some of the older guys (included a couple of the despised vets) have played a crucial role in this tournament as well.
     
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  12. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    We need to be integrating kids at the level they are ready to take. One of the things that we have gotten right in our development is providing multiple steps for youth to take. USL, multiple YNT teams, etc. We now have lots of right-sized teams for youth development. Some kids shoot right up to the full NT and others need more time. For Adams, Pulisic and McKennie the right team is the NT. For most of their cohort the right team will be the u23 Olympic qualifying coming soon. We need the team to gell using the full NT game plan, we need them to qualify and then we need to send a killer U23 with three high quality overage players and aim to get a medal. That's what will integrate the new guys more than anything else.
     
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  13. Sufjan Guzan

    Sufjan Guzan Member+

    Feb 13, 2016
    No I'm saying that in time, Pulisic's best position could be centrally at the club level.

    And I'm saying that for now he is much more effective centrally for us.
     
  14. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    The question is whether they are replaceable. I think that other than Weston and Pulisic, we could replace the rest without missing much of a beat and quite frankly, we could improve in a lot of areas.

    I’m not talking about this specific roster btw, given how poorly it was constructed.
     
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  15. TOAzer

    TOAzer Member+

    The Man With No Club
    May 29, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, Altidore has played well. We have won nothing, absolutely nothing, because of Mikey.
     
  16. skim172

    skim172 Member+

    Feb 20, 2013
    A bit of clarification on Boyd's New Zealand career: Boyd and the New Zealand national team had a falling out. Specifically, it seems he had a falling out with Anthony Hudson, then-New Zealand manager. Hudson refused to comment on why he stopped calling up Boyd, and all Boyd would say was that he wanted to focus on his club career and wouldn't go into further detail.

    Perhaps not coincidentally, Boyd stopped getting NZ call-ups the same time he left New Zealand to go to Portugal, on the advice of his Portugal-based mentor. Again, no one will comment, but I speculate there was some ill will from the departure from Wellington Phoenix, as it is New Zealand's one notable professional club (competes in the A-League) and has close ties to the national team .

    The low amount of call-ups before 2015 can be attributed to OFC's unfortunate schedule which sees them cycle on-and-off in terms of competitive matches. From when he was 20 until he was frozen out, Boyd was called up for every New Zealand match - which amounted to five friendlies over 2.5 years (Oceania finds it difficult to schedule friendlies, because of their low ranking and the major travel required).

    After that, NZ had the OFC Nations Cup and the WC qualifiers, and Hudson was asked why Boyd was left off the roster, to which he gave non-committal answers. When Hudson resigned in 2017, the NZ federation reached out to Boyd to ask if he wanted to play for them - and he gave them a polite but firm "no".

    However, it doesn't seem he was in the process of switching eligibility to the USA at the time. That didn't happen until at least 2018 - and all indications are that it didn't happen until Berhalter (or possibly Stewart) got involved. It seems that Boyd was just frustrated and not interested with the New Zealand team.

    So the narrative of "Boyd isn't good enough to crack the New Zealand 18" is probably misleading. Although perhaps Anthony Hudson might support that. He's unemployed now - maybe he'd be willing to spill the beans if we paid him a couple hundred.


    (Though not for long - Hudson's being interviewed to take over for Rafa Benitez at Newcastle. 8 wins in 43 matches at Colorado Rapids apparently leads you a Premier League managerial position ..... if you're English. :rolleyes:)
     
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  17. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's true but Gregg didn't bring any older like for like players. I think it's appropriate to give them the team but it's kind of like being able to do a job with a Leatherman. It's cool but not the only way it could be done.
     
  18. MPNumber9

    MPNumber9 Member+

    Oct 10, 2010
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not sure where you're getting this. When Donovan and Dempsey played together (which was rarer than you might expect, outside a specific couple seasons) they both were underneath strikers (usually Jozy and Davies) with freedom to roam, create and score. Usually what was happening dictated where either man was: when the counter was on Donovan may have been further forward for example. '09-'11, the team achieved a lot mostly on the backs of those two; neither had a problem scoring wherever they lined up -- that was the point.

    "Mentality" had nothing to do it with; the coach picked a system that maximized the ability of his two best players, which is similar to what Berhalter is doing with Pulisic and McKennie -- it's no mistake these guys keep finding goals without necessarily being closest to goal.

    See above. This is not really any "basic principle" as the game is much more complex. Pulisic's best place is going to vary based on opponent, game state and moment to moment. He's smart enough to find it and have the freedom to do so. This is not really enlightened coaching on Berhalter's part; just basic coaching.

    What problem does this solve?
     
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  19. laxcoach

    laxcoach Member+

    United States
    Jul 29, 2017
    intermountain west
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Feel free to pretend that even 6-7 practices and 3-5 games with talent as good or better than you won't help. And ignore the fact that the only way to assess the real quality of youth sitting on big4 benches is to see them in camp and on the field with CP, etc.
     
  20. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Donovan's defensive positioning is one of the things most underrated about him. He was always wherever there was a hole. That's brains, too.

    Another thing is his corners: usually at the right distance from the keeper and close to the man best positioned to create a threat. I'd contend since Donovan we haven't had anyone come close to taking such good corners.
     
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  21. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    From the record. Post WC'06, Donovan moved to a wide position. Dempsey played wide, then moved to off-forward, then to striker.
    LD's ability was maximized by moving him away from goal--at both club and international level. He didn't have the mentality to play forward.


    Outside of US soccerball, it pretty much is.

    Complexity arises from basic rules.
    He needs to be close to goal.
     

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