WWC19 USA v FRANCE Quarterfinal, pre/pbp/post

Discussion in 'USA Women: News and Analysis' started by McSkillz, Jun 24, 2019.

  1. LevskiSofia

    LevskiSofia Member

    Nov 19, 2008
    If IOC has decided that women's soccer will be played by 12 teams and only 3 of them are European this would explain why nobody takes Olympic soccer seriously.
     
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  2. Reccossu

    Reccossu Member+

    Jan 31, 2005
    Birmingham
    She was very shaky first half. Better in the second.
     
  3. luvdagame

    luvdagame Member+

    Jul 6, 2000
    1. typical high profile match (felt like a final), with maybe 15 minutes of good football, and 75 minutes of not allowing the other team space, time, and mindset to completely play their game.

    don’t like it.

    but not totally unexpected.

    and as usual, the team that was more efficient won.

    reccossu and (on another thread, i think) millenium, point out what i think was the u.s.’ biggest mistake of the game - mewis’ indiscipline on the team’s well-practiced, and oft-utilized offside trap, making renard onside on her goal.

    the u.s. has apparently spent a lot of time incorporating the reality of var into their practices. you don’t have to worry about asst. refs missing an offside player on a goal. so high prevalent high line is new in the uswnt bag of tricks.

    but you have to stay disciplined. and mewis’ early movement for no reason at all suggested oxygen-poor decision faltering, and she was removed soon afterward.
     
  4. kolabear

    kolabear Member+

    Nov 10, 2006
    los angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #454 kolabear, Jun 29, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2019
    Yeah I guess so except Ertz and Dunn are two of the most obvious choices as far as I'm concerned. Two years ago, weren't most fans (including Big Soccer ones) screaming for sticking with someone like Ertz at the number six rather than try to put attacking players everywhere?


    I guess there hasn't been as much consensus on Dunn but I think that says something about us fans. Because as long as, for whatever reasons, Jaelene Hinkle isn't part of the team, there isn't anyone else close to Dunn at the LB. OK - there's some Casey Short fans out there, but let's face it, Dunn comes in for a disproportionate amount of criticism from fans even though they can't put forth an alternative or make a case for them

    ADD - just by the way, Jessica Fishlock made an interesting suggestion during the game. She suggested Le Sommer and Diani switch sides of the field and let Diani take on O'Hara. Of course,, Le Sommer has been so poor the last few games, I thought she should've been subbed out for Asseyi.

    But the alternative, following Fishlock's idea, was to put Cascarino in for Le Sommer and switch Diani over to the left side and put Cascarino on the right.

    Diacre was paralyzed for the first half hour of the 2nd half even though the game was screaming for changes even before the US scored the second goal.
     
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  5. kolabear

    kolabear Member+

    Nov 10, 2006
    los angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That or Diani just is really really good. Which she is at what she does. As I mentioned above, Jess Fishlock made an interesting suggestion during the game - have Le Sommer swap sides with Diani and let Diani go at Kelly O'Hara. I'm not completely convinced that would've worked either - I suspect Diani needs the ball on her right foot for most of her crucial moves and final ball but it tells you who Fishlock thinks is the better defender.
     
  6. goussoccer

    goussoccer Member+

    May 23, 2001
    Avon, CT
    Was at the game, did the march with the folks organized by the Outlaws -- kudos to them for doing it. A great time..not sure the size of the march, but over 1,000 I'd say easy. Getting into the stadium was way easier/quicker than I would ever have expected given the mass arrival to one basic area. We were on the corner of the stadium near the US supporters (though there seemed to be number of French flags waving in the same section.) Supporters did great, though to be fair it was clear that the French fans outnumbered the US fans by a healthy number. The US fans though were very loud.

    A couple comments though given our perspective (which was also a little limited as we were not very far up and in a corner.):
    1. Not sure if it was planned or not but the US team came out for their last warmup AFTER the French team came out. Got a HUGE ovation which, of course, the French team heard. Gamesmanship, or just happenstance?
    2. After the French goal the assistant US coaches were going after the fourth official. Never figured out why.
    3. US almost always had a couple players warming up along the sideline on their bench side. In the second half, French players started warming up right next to where the US players were!! Strange -- that was the side the French were defending, but not the side their bench was on. What was up with that? US players (and assistant coaches) didn't budge an inch and kept on using the space as well, even getting in the way of the French players drills at times.
    4. The game:
      • To us, it looked like our midfield was almost a complete failure in the second half -- putting together more than 3 or so passes in a row was beyond us. Clearances were to French players, passes were cut off by the French and it seemed that France had a choice of going left, right or down the middle to get balls into (or near) the box. Just crazy!! Good news is that their crosses were managed, or mishit and their shots/forays down the middle were blocked or off target. In too many cases for my old heart, the misses didn't seem to be by much. There were at least 2 or 3 shots that either went just wide or hit a US player. That needs to be sorted out.
      • Our best clearance play seemed to be long ball to Mewis to head forward to Morgan.
      • Rapinoe was the bomb early, really setting the tone and causing havoc. Not sure how anyone could say she shouldn't start.
      • My friend was very critical of Dunn in the first half as she was defending right in front of us. But it seemed to me that our 'system', whatever that is, causes this issue. France seemed to overload a side and get a numbers advantage, so the only option is to leave the wide player out in space. As a result, they get a ball that the wing defender needs to try and catch up to and sometimes can't get there before a cross can be put in. That's been true on both sides for the last couple of games I've watched.
      • The above issue makes me VERY worried about England.
      • The subs did their job, and our counter strategy worked, but man was that a tense game to watch.
    5. The French folks we met at the stadium and on the metro afterward were all gracious and nice. We had friendly banter before and during the game, but friendly and respectful.
     
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  7. jnielsen

    jnielsen Member+

    May 12, 2012
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Thank you, goussoccer, I always love hearing about things at the match we would never know about otherwise. Interesting about the warm-up situation.

    The amount of times we passed directly to the opposition was scary. TG Majri had a poor game - she wasted so many corners and free kicks, especially in the 1st half. Le Sommer also had an off game.

    Ever since this quarterfinal became a possibility, I'd been worrying about who would mark Renard. First, don't give up corners. We did pretty well at that. Only Mewis, Horan or Lloyd have the stature and aerial ability to have any kind of effect on her. Ellis' solution was to go zonal which was very risky. Majri saved us by only getting the ball to her once.
     
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  8. ntxsage

    ntxsage Member

    Apr 25, 2012
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    This is probably the source of it. Dunn makes people nervous because it always appears she's out of position inside and having to close a wide player at the last minute. I asked about this on another thread and Number007 implied this is a tactical emphasis from uswnt's flavor of 4-3-3.

    It certainly feels like our system is enticing teams to play in the wide fwd and run at the outside back. We dare them to do it. Dunn then closes with extraordinary quickness. Majority of the time what looks like a dangerous entry ends up as a block for a corner or Dunn outright wins the 1v1. Meanwhile, when teams do come central we have OBs supporting the ctr backs. It's clearly dangerous, but Dunn's work rate, tenacity and athleticism have pulled it off so far. Ohara doesnt adhere as strictly to the guidance because it doesnt look like she tucks in every single time. Ive watched her movement off the ball (since number007s comment) and indeed sometimes she positions herself exactly as Dunn does.

    It might continue to work unless anyone overloads either OB with 2 pacey players. A team with at least one pacey wide fwd AND a pacey 9 or 10 with freedom to roam would wreak havoc. Dunn has been tremendous thus far, but we cant expect every opposing coach will set up their attack as optimally for US as did the French. I'd also love to see Ellis adjust this for England.
     
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  9. dmax316

    dmax316 Member

    Jun 25, 2011
    United States
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Dunn really scares me at times
     
  10. YankBastard

    YankBastard Na Na Na Na NANANANAAA!

    Jun 18, 2005
    Estados Unidos
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  11. BrooklynSoccer

    BrooklynSoccer Member+

    Jan 22, 2008
    I would disagree with this.
    Davidson, for one, is incredibly talented, smart, fast and has the best left foot on the team...at least according to their coach.

    There's a reason she was the top pick in the draft, and a true left back. If she had another year or so of experience, she would be our starting LB.

    Also, people seem to forgot Ohara has experience at left back and Dunn has experience at RB, specifically winning a U20 WC at that position.
     
  12. Dfwsoccer01

    Dfwsoccer01 Member

    Jun 23, 2014
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Dunn can be a bit shaky, but she’s fast and is a scrapper. Honestly, you can’t want much more from an outside defender.

    Considering how many offensive weapons this team has, it’s strange how we aren’t generating offense. Morgan just doesn’t look good right now. I can’t put my finger on it, but something is off. Maybe it’s our lack of a good #10. Rose seems like at times she’s creating, but it just doesn’t seem consistent enough. I still would like to see Press or Pugh be inserted the next game to inject some speed, but at the end of the day, it falls back to who can come in and play consistent at the #10 linking up and creating chances....
     
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  13. lil_one

    lil_one Member+

    Nov 26, 2013
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    IMO, Davidson is a true center back who can play left back. She can certainly develop into a starting LB but I think she'll make a better CB personally.

    And don't forget that Ellis has Heath as a backup left back, too. :rolleyes:
     
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  14. jnielsen

    jnielsen Member+

    May 12, 2012
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Dunn's one on one defending is suspect. She dives in and doesn't get the ball. However, she is quick enough and tenacious enough to recover and try again. Davidson might be a better tackler, but she doesn't have the recovery speed. Dunn improved throughout the game as she learned Diani's moves and wore her down.
     
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  15. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Member+

    Feb 11, 2002
    Jupiter, Fl.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #465 Lloyd Heilbrunn, Jun 29, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2019

    My guess is they didn't agree with the foul call that led to the FK.

    I don't remember myself, but I've heard a couple of commentators that thought it was not a foul.

    Either that, or they didn't realize in the stadium that Mewis played her onside.
     
  16. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Member+

    Feb 11, 2002
    Jupiter, Fl.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Disagree, I thought she had a great, if sometimes subtle, game.

    Drew the FK that led to the first goal.

    "Secondary assist" on the second goal.

    Battled in the middle all game even when we went to only one upfront.

    Came back to defend on free kicks and corners.

    And did a really nice job killing it off at the end.
     
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  17. FanOfFutbol

    FanOfFutbol Member+

    The Mickey Mouse Club or The breakfast Club
    May 4, 2002
    Limbo
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    I have never heard of even one call reversed after arguments with or yelling at the referee. I do not understand why team officials and players insist on such stupid and fruitless actions. In fact the only reversal of a major call, other than by VAR, I remember was many years ago when a red card on Kasey Keller was reduced to a yellow but that was caused by an intervention by the assistant referee not intervention or argument by players or team staff.

    Arguing calls is simply an action showing immaturity.
     
  18. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Member+

    Feb 11, 2002
    Jupiter, Fl.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Coaches in all sports don't yell at referees to change the call.

    They yell at referees to hopefully get the next call in their favor.
     
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  19. FanOfFutbol

    FanOfFutbol Member+

    The Mickey Mouse Club or The breakfast Club
    May 4, 2002
    Limbo
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    That is the excuse they use for behaving like petulant children. I do not buy it. They yell at referees simply because they, at least temporarily, stop thinking and behave like kids that do not get their way.

    My belief is that yelling actually increases the likelihood that the next call goes against them as well. It is a stupid move.
     
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  20. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Member+

    Feb 11, 2002
    Jupiter, Fl.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If you don't believe it works, you've never watched a guy like Don Shula, Bobby Knight, or Coach K work a ref.
     
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  21. ifsteve

    ifsteve Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Jul 7, 2013
    MS and ID
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Arguing with the refs can certainly be overdone and often is. But if you think that pointing out mistakes doesn't get them thinking about the next call and your perspective then you'd be mistaken.
     
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  22. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Member+

    Feb 11, 2002
    Jupiter, Fl.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Going back to my coaching days, many years ago, on many occasions:

    "Ref, you need to call that."

    Ref says: "she's just clumsy, it wasn't intentional."

    "What if she clumsily breaks my girl's leg?

    10 minutes later, identical foul, by the same player:

    "Tweet"!!:cool:
     
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  23. FanOfFutbol

    FanOfFutbol Member+

    The Mickey Mouse Club or The breakfast Club
    May 4, 2002
    Limbo
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    People should note that "talking" to refs is VASTLY different from "yelling" at them. It is the yelling and arguing that is worse than counter productive. Simply talking to them is OK and often a good thing.

    Refs are human, mostly, and yelling at them causes resentment and intentionally causing that resentment is stupid.
     
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  24. blissett

    blissett Member+

    Aug 20, 2011
    Italy
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    And about non-humans... well, yelling at a VAR looks quite useless. :coffee: Almost as yelling as you TV set.
     
  25. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    I was wondering whether it wasn't a question whether the VAR, now that a goal had apparently been scored, could be used to review the initial foul call, which certainly seemed to be in error. Hard to see where Ohara fouled her, she was just trying not to fall on her.

    Or possibly whether it could be used to figure if Renard should be called for pushing off Rapinoe, who was fronting Renard on the play while Horan had her from behind (which was about as reasonable as any option available.)

    Renard kind of used Pinoe as a counterweight to get past Horan on the play...
     
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