Duvan Zapata

Discussion in 'Colombians Abroad' started by Clenbuterol, Sep 19, 2011.

  1. villus

    villus Member+

    Jun 5, 2008
    Does Falcao get shit done for us recently? People keep talking about Falcao like he's this beast under pressure and yes he has been clutch for a lot of his career but lets look at his most recent games for us,

    Peru WCQ - no real effect on the game
    Japan - didn't do anything
    Poland - scored a nice goal when he was set up
    Senegal - absent all game again
    England - Absent all game again
    Argentina - Absent all game again

    And in these games he really didn't create much for others or do a lot of work to get us up the field.

    Duvan hasn't had a lot of games with the NT to really judge him, but he played well the last couple games of WCQ and for his club he was arguably the best player scoring big goals and setting them up as well in their run in where they had a tough schedule trying to get top 4 and every game was basically like a cup final, and he arguably played the best games of his season under that intense pressure. (Falcao also was good in games for his club, but not the same type of pressure situation that Duvan had or difficult games at the end of the season).
     
  2. J-Mezzy

    J-Mezzy Member+

    Oct 14, 2013
    Orlando
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    To me it's not about who is better...Duvan is better at this point

    But the dynamic that they can both provide. Having Duvan come off the bench is a great asset in my opinion. I'd rather have Falcao, who is still quality, start and tire the defenders and then have Duvan come in and bully them.

    Falcao simply can't provide the same benefits off the bench as Duvan
     
  3. ryu79

    ryu79 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Oct 17, 2005
    NYC
    Club:
    America de Cali
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Conversely, I can think of great international players who extended their longevity at the international level (Roger Milla, quaresma) past their days as starters when the next generation was ready to do the heavy lifting but could be counted on to be killers at the end of games because they had the experience to read the desperation of this final minutes and running at tired defenders flattered their own pace later in their careers.

    I'm by no means saying Radamel shouldn't start, or that he can't play with Duvan - but whenever Duvan does surpass him (and by the way, having Duvan solidify himself as half the 9 Falcao was at his peak would be pretty great for us), I think Falcao will still have an important role for us. You need leaders and people who have 'been there.' We haven't had those before really, we need to take full advantage of all Falcao learned as the best 9 in the world...
     
    Bomb8, pepinointer and dapip repped this.
  4. Bomb8

    Bomb8 Member+

    Jun 19, 2017
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    #1129 Bomb8, Jun 17, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2019
    Even though I don't completely agree the way you judge Falcao's performances in those particular matches, specially when they were difficult games for the whole team, you have a point. Falcao's level had been dropping for quite some time.

    But before you even think about replacing the captain and the leader of the team you have to be damn sure the other guy does the job a lot better. A 50/50 situation isn't good enough. Until now Duvan has been very inconcistent, some good games (without goals though), some unacceptable ones.

    But like I said you have a point. It would be stupid not to question Falcao's position as a starter.
     
    Azucarero and pepinointer repped this.
  5. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    Villus makes some good points but the emphasis should not be on the fans reaction when it comes to benching Falcao.
    I think it more has to do with not rocking the boat in the locker room. You don't want to disrupt the positive vibe of the leaders and the role players on the team just because one guy looks like he is on the cusp of being a great starter.

    Of course the more Duvan plays well and shows what he can do the problem obviously can get bigger,
    It is a fantastic problem to have though. Winning one of our biggest matches and having a real serious discussion about whether or not one of our best players in history or one of the best goal scorers in today's club football should be starting.
    That goes back to what I said in the other thread about the luxury of having quality depth.
     
    dapip, pepinointer and J-Mezzy repped this.
  6. Bomb8

    Bomb8 Member+

    Jun 19, 2017
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    As long as we play the lone striker system we have depth. Beyond Falcao and Duvan we dont have proven scorers available. I'm not disagreeing with you, just thinking out loud.
     
  7. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    We have streaky goal scorers and guys who have proven themselves at lower levels when compared to Euro Leagues

    So far so good with someone like Roger though. Let's see if he can keep it up.
     
    pepinointer repped this.
  8. villus

    villus Member+

    Jun 5, 2008
    Yeah the locker room and the press/fanbase can all effect the spirit of the team and the support of the coach (by the federation). I also think that Falcao has always been pure class so if it happens I don't see him being a problem and I think he will do whats best for Colombia, which he has always done.

    Just want to be clear I don't dislike Falcao, I think he's been an amazing player and a great captain and I wish he was healthy in 2014 and had more help in 2018, I just think that he's regressed a lot, and will continue to do so at a very fast rate at his age and I also don't want him to be one of those players that is relied on too long only to see him go from hero to punching bag.
     
  9. Azucarero

    Azucarero Member+

    May 9, 2008
    I'm curious: What needs to happen for all of you for Duvan to start over Falcao? Does Duvan have to keep scoring when he subs in? Can Falcao go a certain amount of scoreless games before he sees the bench? Does Colombia need to lose?

    If we stick with a single striker, which it seems we will, I don't think this it's a fantastic problem to have at all.

    I don't want James as the captain again...I also don't want to pass up on possibly getting Duvan into a scoring rhythm simply because he never gets to start...
     
    Baal88 repped this.
  10. kromekote

    kromekote Member+

    May 22, 2012
    Club:
    America de Cali
    The result even prior to the score is what mattered to me. The team had attitude, organization and rhythm. Every player for Colombia was playing and giving 120%. It was obvious that our team can't press for 90 minutes and so yes, we lost the ball for a moment but our boys stayed focus. More than what we did on the ball I liked what we did when he didnt have the ball, which was to get it back asap! We attacked with constant movement (paredes, over lapping runs etc), and had patience when moving the ball up. We won 50/50 balls and we won despite being thrown a wrench with Muriel's injury so early in the game.

    Lastly, if not Falcao, who will command the team on the field? Who will get the most of our guys, push them, protect them? Falcao is a leader on the field and I don't know if we have another force that has the calmness but also the tough spirit to yell at our guys, have their respect and get them going when things are not going as planned.
     
  11. Azucarero

    Azucarero Member+

    May 9, 2008
    For the record: I'm not arguing that Falcao should be benched. I honestly don't know where I stand.
     
  12. Furnaccio

    Furnaccio Member+

    Feb 19, 2008
    New York, NY
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    If we drop points over the next two games, there will be a call for Falcao to sit the bench. You know how it goes :)

    If we continue to win, people will let things slide until shit hits the fan.

    As far as James as captain, I don’t know if it’s fair to say what happens off camera in terms of his leadership. On camera, he seems to whine to the refs often but then again who doesn’t in 2019 LOL

    I don’t like GK’s as captains bc they usually are not talking to refs during games enough relative to a field player. Otherwise, who else are we left with....Cuadrado/Arias? for all we know Yerry Mina may have that “alpha dog” mentality among his teammates.
     
    dapip and Azucarero repped this.
  13. J-Mezzy

    J-Mezzy Member+

    Oct 14, 2013
    Orlando
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    To answer your question

    I say we bench him when it's obvious that he is having a negative impact on the team like players like Cuadrado have done in the past.

    If the team is still playing well, and he is leading the team, pressing, and putting pressure on the defenders with his constant movement and physicality...I'd say leave him in

    Having a bulldozer like Duvan come in on the 60th or 70th minute is an amazing advantage.

    If we start Duvan we pretty much have no alternative off the bench because Falcao at this point is not a game changer
     
    dapip, Azucarero and Froboy69 repped this.
  14. Baal88

    Baal88 Member+

    May 10, 2008
    Medellin
    Club:
    Independiente Medellin
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    It Will happen progressively. Duvan is in the best form of his career and Falcao is in the twilight, in the next two years Duvan will be the undisputed starter.
     
    Azucarero and pepinointer repped this.
  15. villus

    villus Member+

    Jun 5, 2008
    These are all professionals playing for their country, if they can't get up for a game against Argentina then we are screwed anyways. People really over value the captain or who wears the captains armband, Falcao gets every good aspect attributed to him yet gets to go free from all his short falls, seems like an impossible standard for anyone to compete with. Falcao also doesn't do a good job of pressuring and recovering from the front, having Duvan would lift the team a ton, look at the goal he scored and what he did to create it, that would get a team playing better constantly, knowing you have the ability to break out from half or beast 2-3 defenders at a time is an actual measurable difference to the team, not just psychological.

    Also do people not think that seeing our CF while you are on the team constantly not able to hold the ball up or get behind the defense or get involved doesn't demoralize a team?
     
  16. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    #1141 HomietheClown, Jun 17, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2019
    I refereed to this in another thread and will continue to mention it in other threads.
    I put a lot of value into what a Manager says, especially this manager who likes to stay transparent with the media.
    Queiroz has been quoted as saying the most important players on the team are Mina, James and Falcao.

    Obviously did not say anything about Duvan. But soon he may be obligated to say it since he is in top form, a form we have never really seem from a player in the Serie A.

    This could be the last hurrah for Falcao.
    When Qualifiers start up next Spring things can change drastically. Duvan can be the man while Falcao may have to be a role player. (But for now Falcao is the man up top.)
     
    Froboy69 repped this.
  17. Bomb8

    Bomb8 Member+

    Jun 19, 2017
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Why not replace Falcao with Cucho? He scored two goals as a sub, Duvan just one.
     
    Furnaccio repped this.
  18. crzdcolombian

    crzdcolombian Member+

    Jul 17, 2006
    Avon,CT
    Club:
    FC Internazionale Milano
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Guys Falcao has 15 goals on a team that was almost demoted and was injured for a large part of the season. Is 33 he will need to be replaced soon as our #9

    Thing is Duvan is 27 and has had 7 incredible months of futy. Before that he was a average player.

    Duvan needs to prove he is better not omg he scored more goals in December then Falcao did all season...... well it was a godlike December in a better team.

    I do agree on paper Duvan is better in every aspect of his game but he needs to prove it in more then 2 games.
     
    krass, J-Mezzy and Bomb8 repped this.
  19. villus

    villus Member+

    Jun 5, 2008
    Get this, how about a whole season? LOL at calling Duvan an average player, he was a very good player last season but people thought he wasn't doing well because the team preferred Quagrialla, who just so happens to be starting for Italy and was the leading scorer in the Serie A last year on the same average team that Duvan was on.
     
  20. HTOWNKING

    HTOWNKING Member

    Mar 22, 2009
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Screenshot_20190617-193754_Chrome.jpg

    Did not know this was a thing :eek:
     
    villus and Furnaccio repped this.
  21. Furnaccio

    Furnaccio Member+

    Feb 19, 2008
    New York, NY
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    “Mistake” more like belated birthday gift ;)
     
  22. kromekote

    kromekote Member+

    May 22, 2012
    Club:
    America de Cali
    I didn't mention Captain's armband as much as showing leadership and being the voice on the field. Not everyone has that personality which is why we haven't had a guy with the Yepes temperament in years but Falcao may be close to providing that voice of strength and reason. Regarding his shortfalls, let's put things in their place. You nor I know what's being asked of Falcao. You want him to run and pressure on top for every play but that may be the complete opposite of what CQ ask of Falcao. Secondly, for the record, Falcao is still scoring. Despite so many nagging injuries and a nearly relegated season for Monaco he was still responsible for 50% of the goals for the entire team. So much so, that he finished the season tied for 5th place. That may not seem like much, but if you look at the goal scoring table for the top 10 Ligue 1 goalscorers, ALL, with the exception of Falcao played for a team ranked top 6 this season. When wearing the NT Yellow, he has also come thru. I'm not making excuses for Falcao but rather pointing out that while Duvan has clearly been the better striker this season, there is legitimacy in Falcao making this roster and starting in this lineup. For my taste, like many, I would love to see Duvan get the starting nod based on his form but if Falcao also starts I wouldn't be upset about it.

    Last thing I'll say as well is that this team is attacking with many more men on the final 1/3 and more chances are getting into the box and in a position where we can see our strikers getting good chances to finish.
     
  23. villus

    villus Member+

    Jun 5, 2008
    There is merit for Falcao starting and there is no doubt he's earned the place on the team, I wouldn't argue against that, I just think we should be starting with the better player. Nobody talks about assists either, Duvan creates much much more then Falcao in that department.
     
  24. Bomb8

    Bomb8 Member+

    Jun 19, 2017
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    If you take for granted that good club form = good NT form, then of course I understand why someone would want Zapata to start over Falcao. The problem is we don't know about Duvan's NT form. In the NT you need to adapt quickly, you don't have months to adapt to the tactics and for the rest of the team to adapt to your game, like in clubs. His first goal at Atalanta came in november. Just bad luck or poor adaption skills? His great season at Atalanta is the reason he is in Copa America. The next step is to prove he can do it the NT, a goal or two doesn't prove anything. Ask Cucho.

    Falcao has already proven that his club form is the same as his NT form, if he keeps scoring in his club we can expect the same in yellow. Falcao = safe bet. Duvan = ?
     
  25. villus

    villus Member+

    Jun 5, 2008
    But the point is Falcao is not a safe bet over his recent history with the national team, and we simply looking at number of goals on paper misses a huge portion of what goes into being a successful player/team. We've been down this road with NT players quite often with the same argument of NT vs club form and I'd like to submit for the jury.

    La Roca vs Barrios
    Cristian Zapata vs Mina and Davinson
    Everyone vs Quintero

    These players were all talented and doing really good things at club level day in and day out, but the argument that they haven't done it for the national team and experience etc. was made. Mina and Davinson when they got the nod have been great for Colombia, Quintero was our best attacking player at the World Cup and Barrios has been immense when he's gotten the start for Colombia, including in the World Cup. Barrios and Duvan are the more similar comparisons, Sanchez and Falcao have been very good for us but they are limited in their play Barrios is a much better passer and his overall game is better Duvan is the same, he's much better all round and his club form including last season has been very good all round including goals. The earlier we embrace the younger players pushing through the better off we are.
     

Share This Page