Rape/Sexual Assault Culture

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by minerva, Jun 4, 2013.

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  1. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/07/when-a-child-says-shes-trans/561749/

    Claire is a 14-year-old girl with short auburn hair and a broad smile. She lives outside Philadelphia with her mother and father, both professional scientists. Claire can come across as an introvert, but she quickly opens up, and what seemed like shyness reveals itself to be quiet self-assuredness. Like many kids her age, she is a bit overscheduled. During the course of the evening I spent with Claire and her mother, Heather—these aren’t their real names—theater, guitar, and track tryouts all came up. We also discussed the fact that, until recently, she wasn’t certain she was a girl.


    Sixth grade had been difficult for her. She’d struggled to make friends and experienced both anxiety and depression. “I didn’t have any self-confidence at all,” she told me. “I thought there was something wrong with me.” Claire, who was 12 at the time, also felt uncomfortable in her body in a way she couldn’t quite describe. She acknowledged that part of it had to do with puberty, but she felt it was more than the usual preteen woes. “At first, I started eating less,” she said, “but that didn’t really help.”

    Around this time, Claire started watching YouTube videos made by transgender young people. She was particularly fascinated by MilesChronicles, the channel of Miles McKenna, a charismatic 22-year-old. His 1 million subscribers have followed along as he came out as a trans boy, went on testosterone, got a double mastectomy, and transformed into a happy, healthy young man. Claire had discovered the videos by accident, or rather by algorithm: They’d showed up in her “recommended” stream. They gave a name to Claire’s discomfort. She began to wonder whether she was transgender, meaning her internal gender identity didn’t match the sex she had been assigned at birth. “Maybe the reason I’m uncomfortable with my body is I’m supposed to be a guy,” she thought at the time.

    Claire found in MilesChronicles and similar YouTube videos a clear solution to her unhappiness. “I just wanted to stop feeling bad, so I was like, I should just transition,” she said. In Claire’s case, the first step would be gaining access to drugs that would halt puberty; next, she would start taking testosterone to develop male secondary sex characteristics. “I thought that that was what made you feel better,” she told me.​

     
  2. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    At least we need to be prepared to rethink either thing, and alert to indications that it is time to restart discussion. on one or both.
     
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  3. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    No!

    It is not insane.

    It is just the consequence of fumbling attempts to deal with very, very complex phenomena by different types of specialists. One gets strange, contrasting results sometimes...
     
  4. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 21, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My buddy's 14 year old is currently taking hormones to transition to a boy. Totally true.
     
  5. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    A friend of mine, describing parenthood, used to say "If they are about to do something that might break their leg, you have to let them. If they are about to do something which might cost them an eye, you have to stop them."

    Problem is, nobody really can say with any certainty which category this falls into...
     
  6. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    OK, fair enough. I will modify my answer to match yours. These topics need further discussion, without the emotional baggage.
     
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  7. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    As the process is irreversible, it would seem to fall into the second. But maybe this is the sort of thing that people aren't wrong about, even at the age of 14. Maybe when they know, they know. In which case that's not really losing an eye. It is instead fixing a problem.
     
  8. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    Exactly. And you do have plenty of opportunity to make sure they understand that there really is no going back. If you still don't feel comfortable, you don't get to go on to werewolf or t-rex or...
     
  9. Bootsy Collins

    Bootsy Collins Player of the Year

    Oct 18, 2004
    Capitol Hill
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Really? I totally missed that. Where?
     
  10. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 21, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A town between Batavia and Geneseo
     
  11. Bootsy Collins

    Bootsy Collins Player of the Year

    Oct 18, 2004
    Capitol Hill
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm confused by the previous post, though. Did your buddy's 14yo have legal status to demand this? Or was it requested of your buddy, who said "OK"?

    EDIT: to clarify, I thought your prior post was saying that we *legally* don't allow 14yo's to give consent, but do *legally* allow 14yo's to independently make the decision to undergo sex reassignment procedures. Maybe I misread?
     
  12. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 21, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The 14yo has his parent's consent and support to do this.

    No parent can give consent to their 14 year old having sex with adults without a stern visit from family services.
     
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  13. Bootsy Collins

    Bootsy Collins Player of the Year

    Oct 18, 2004
    Capitol Hill
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    OK, I understand. I misread what you were saying -- I thought you were saying that there were states where the parents were not required to consent to sex reassignment procedures.
     
  14. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 21, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm sure that will arrive within the decade
     
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  15. xtomx

    xtomx Member+

    Chicago Fire
    Sep 6, 2001
    Northern Wisconsin, but not far from civilization
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    It is not a question of "agency," it is the inherently unequal power differential between a child and any adult in a sexual situation and that there are a vast number of adults ready, willing and able to prey upon children.

    Of course, there could be some 14 year olds with the emotional maturity to have sex, just like millions of 18 year olds without that emotional maturity.
     
  16. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 21, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Do you have kids? Girls in particular?
     
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  17. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    But bless their hearts, they're little and we're big, so we'll just define away their right to make their own choices, because it simplifies ours.

    It is, in fact, a question of agency. We have no better answer at the moment than going for the greatest good of the greatest number, but it is lazy to pretend there is no power relationship in the solution, only the problem.

    Just because I am 68 doesn't mean I have forgotten what it was like to be 15...
     
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  18. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Without parental permission?
     
  19. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 21, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Unimportant. Can I legally give my underage daughter permission to screw a 23-year-old?
     
  20. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I believe that in some states you can approve for her marriage, but it varies on what is the minimum age. once married she can screw the dude.
     
  21. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 21, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So no
     
  22. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  23. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 21, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Since we are talking about NY State, marriage age is 17 flat. Up until 2 years ago it was 14 with court permission. But then divorce wasn't legal until 18.

    The entire discussion of adolescent agency is a mess.
     
  24. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 21, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Bingo.

    It's also lazy to assume that the 23 year old male holds all power over the 14 year old female. Its very possible that she's the one running the show.
     
  25. Bootsy Collins

    Bootsy Collins Player of the Year

    Oct 18, 2004
    Capitol Hill
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Didn't we JUST have that conversation?
     
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