Lack of Grit in the Squad?

I totally agree. If you look around the premiership you see players who play with a lot of passion and intensity (Gerrard, Gravesen, Alan Smith). Our midfield looks very light-weight. Although Alonso is 6 ft 4 he isn't the kind of player who will put his body on the line. We need players who really know what it means to play for this club and are willing to give 100%. Right now, I only see a few in Liverpool colors every week.

 

Which one? The one where we defeated the Champions or the one where we came from behind to score 3 goals in 45 minutes to book a place in the last 16 of the European Cup?

I love derby days for more reasons than I can count, but I do hate all the hand-wringing that goes with a defeat in this fixture.

We have plenty of players who are committed to the cause, starting with Hyppia at the back and working our way forward to the likes of Mellor and even FSP, whose small stature belies a wiry, strong frame that he is not afraid to chuck in at the deep end.

Comparisons with Everton on this point are rank. Everton have a lot of grit ... it's actually all they have. Even allowing for the fact that the likes of Gravesen get an unfair press in terms of the ability that goes with their physical play. But just because Everton have a lot of gritty journeymen in their team who, whilst the leaves are still falling, have strung some results together, does not mean we need to benchmark ourselves against them in terms of any deficiencies we may have.

Yesterday was a derby like all other derbies. We lost this one but we could easily have won it too. Let's not get overly analytical about the thing - we lost a derby.

 

OK, well I disagree. We don't need some hairy-arsed clodhopper in the squad just so that we can outmuscle the Bitters on the rare occasions they manage to muster a performance against us. Bear in mind that we have beaten them at Jurassic Park on 4 of the last 5 occasions and we did so on every occasion by virtue of superior football, not equivalent physicality.

By that same token, I therefore don't think you can extrapolate the general "toughness" issue into our wider campaign. We have won a number of games through patience, composure, skill and, occasionally, luck. But conversely, we have not lost games through a lack of grunt. So your argument is wrong-headed.

We need more Alonso's and Garcia's and the return to full sharpness of Baros, of Kewell and the rest. It's our lack of high-quality players at peak fitness that has cost us, not our "lack of physical toughness".

 

If by "grit", the threadstarter means "continuity at the forward postitions", then I wholeheartedly agree.

With the departure of the two regular starters from last season, integration of Cisse, Garcia and Baros (who might as well be a new transfer) and the injury to Cisse, yes, it has been impossible to get any "grit". And the absence of "grit" meant the team has had trouble scoring against seemingly lesser opponents.

 

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We need more Alonso's and Garcia's and the return to full sharpness of Baros, of Kewell and the rest. It's our lack of high-quality players at peak fitness that has cost us, not our "lack of physical toughness".[/QUOTE]

While Alonso is great and pin pointing passes up and down the pitch he isn't a match winner. He also isn't the quickest guy in the world either. Neither is Garcia. If you look at the "big 3" one thing you notice is that they have players with the ability to win a match with one moment of brilliance. That is what we need. The only player we have who can do that is STEVEN GERRARD.

For example:

Chelsea: Duff, Robben, Lampard,
Man U: Ronaldo, Giggs, Rooney, Van Nistlerooy,
Arsenal: Henry, Pires, Ljunberg, Reyes

Notice how all of these guys are fairly quick players with the ability to take on defenders one-on-one. Do we have any one-one-one players? I think not.

 

I think its a case of you always want what the other person has.
Gerrard oozes class, probably the most out of any the players you listed. Alonso is a spectacular player, who while still in his first year in the Prem has aquitted himself quite nicely.

Judging by the listed players I'm not so sure what you're looking for isn't better wing play, which certainly is an area of improvement. Look, Henry is simply in a different world, RVN is a bit of an opportunistic striker with a great strike rate, and Rooney is an incredibly streaky player who has the ability to strike from anywhere within 30 yards.

But with Cisse, Baros, and Garcia healthy (which is clearly not the case currently) I think Liverpool's options up top are at least serviceable for what they need to accomplish short term (compete for the trophies). In the future a more effective pairing with Cisse would be nice, but Garcia is also in his first Prem season and isn't fully fit.

I think where Liverpool really struggles in comparison to the other top teams is on the flanks, I mean Finnan, Nunez, and an incredibly out of form Kewell just aren't the same caliber as what the other title contenders can throw at you on the outsides.

I think with a return of the old Kewell and a difference maker on the other flank (perhaps in time Nunez can be that, but I haven't seen it yet) Liverpool will have the ability to challenge the Chelseas, Man Utds, and Arsenals.

The blueprint is certainly there, Hyppia, Gerrard, and Alonso are all class players who you can build a squad on. Carragher and Finnan are strong outside defenders. Kewell certainly has the pedigree and hopefully Cisse will return as strong as he was pre-injury to fulfill his immense potential.

This is Benitez's first year, and I think it was always going to be difficult to transition. But I think Liverpool's performances will improve as they get more used to his system and players return to fitness. The obvious challenge is performing well enough after the New Year to convince Gerrard that Liverpool is the place where he can win trophies and Benitez is the man for the job.

 

We have Kewell, Gerrard and Garcia. The fact that Kewell is struggling for form makes no difference to the fact that he can be that player for us when on top of his game. Remember - Duff only went to Chelsea because Kewell had indicated that he would only consider an approach from Liverpool. And there's a reason for that. Garcia not a matchwinner? Come on ...

Same goes for Alonso. The day passing and vision of his standard does not constitute a match-winners' profile is the day football ceases to be a game I understand.

In addition, we have Baros and will soon be adding further striking talent to the mix as well.

The idea that Gerrard is the only player who can win games for Liverpool is nonsense and is based largely on his recent upsurge in form. On top of all of that, comparisons to the other big clubs are, as things stand and in the midst of this always clearly transitional season, a bit pointless.

 

We can't start using lack of depth as an excuse. Everton, Boro and Aston Villa all have considerably smaller squads than we do, yet are above/tied with us in the table. We have quality in the youth, evidenced by the Carling Cup run, and using them should be an option. We can no longer say players are tired after 2 games in 4 days, and say we don't have depth when we have at least 18 players capable of playing for any Premiership club.

 

This is an interesting angle. I would like David Raven given a chance at full-back. Problem is, it’s difficult to blood youngsters in Premiership matches when the pressure to succeed is so intense. Just look at this board today – it’s insane and no manager is going to fritter away their honeymoon period on risky youth experiments. Benitez was widely and rightly lauded for giving youth its chance when he brought Warnock and Potter into Premiership sides earlier in the season. Haven’t seen much of that lately, have we? That’s because he’s on a hiding to nothing – one bad result with a young’un in the team and it’s going to be a cacophony of “what was he thinking” and “the kid’s just not good enough” and all the rest of that blahdeeblah.

Shame, really. Because as you say – we have talent and we have depth. What we don’t have is a support base willing to give either the players or the manager the room to make use of it.

 

I think SWP would be an ideal player for Liverpool, hard working and devoted. But Man City put a ridiculous price on him so I don't think he'll leave City.

 

Until Harry Kewell puts together a STRING of performances where he is a legitamate threat to either score or set-up goals he can't be put in that match winning category.

The jury is still out of Garcia. Sure he scored a fabulous goal against Charlton but his performances away from Anfield haven't impressed me. And let's not forget that he hasn't spent much time in the Barcelona squad over the past few seasons. If he was that good they would have fought much harder to keep him.

Baros has the potential to be a match winner but until he realizes that he has other players on his team he remains an unfinished product. Maybe not on the international level but certainly on the club level.

 

well,you guys cant be that unfair!Garcia is a good player,but barcelona just didnt need him!Right behind the strikers is garcias best position!(hes not a winger!,he cant defend for $hit!),and that poisition is taken by ronaldinho!!!And then there xabi,so that position is covered!lets not be unfair on the lad,and lets give him a chance!

 

Well said.

 

Based on what I've seen recently, Kewell is starting to round back into form. The expectations on him are incredibly high. He was our most dangerous player in the second half against Pompey on Tuedsay.

I like Garcia a lot. He certainly adds quality to the team and fits in nicely when healthy.

Regarding Baros. Well, we need him desperately right now, but going forward, I wouldn't shed any tears if he moved on. He's an incredibly selfish player, who regularly kills attacks by trying to beat 3 or 4 players when he open teammates in dangerous positions.

What is killing the team right now is a lack of a depth at striker, which with the sale of Owen, and not getting a replacement, was predictable long a go.

The dropped points on Tuesday aside, what I have been most happy about with the team is the home form. Under Houllier, the Anfield advantage lost its mystic, Benetiz is starting to get that back.

Any team that wants to win big, has to establish a dominant presence at home. The team is starting to do that, and overall, I think things are moving in the right direction.

 

Sure, I'm an ass, but that is neither here nor there, though there was a larger point I was making.

People tend to make too much of intangible (even mythical) qualities when things are going wrong, when the problems are often much more simple (if not simple to fix).

In all competitions this season, Liverpool has lost just one match when scoring at least a goal, lost one match by more than a goal, while the other 6 losses have all been 0-1 (if my count is correct). That means, if we could manage to score just one goal in each of the 6 matces, we would have 31 points, 7 points off first place and 3 points behind Everton.
And when we do win, the goals come in bunches - there has only been one 1-0 win all season. That seems to indicate our fortunes depend a good deal on our ability to score.

Now, I would be the first person to point out that numbers never tell the whole story and it is dangerous to play "What if", but I do believe they are indicative of where the problems lie.

 

An ass you may be, but an incisive and analytic critic you certainly are. Our problem is scoring goals. Defense has been better than adequate and the play between the 18s quite good but we simply don't finish strong enough. (thats what MS LB says about me too ).

 

Exactly. And we really shouldn't be too surprised, sales/injuries...

 

This is a depressing yet realistic look at where our club is and where it is going.

http://www.koptalk.org/archive/editor/171204.shtml

 

God that was depressing. Although, the mistress stuff was funny.

Other than getting rid of the whole lot, I didn't hear much of a solution. What's the reality of a large board shake-up?

 

I think the chances of a large board shake-up have decreased dramatically since our defeat of Olympiakos. Now Rafa has some money to spend so he can get SOME of the players that he wants. Pressure on Mr. Moores will increase if results don't improve.

I've been saying it before and I'll say it again..Mr. Parry has done a really POOR job of marketing this club globally. I think he really doesn't get the scope of how many supporters this club has around the world. I think the L4 understands this much better and can get us on the level of the big clubs.

Things with our club seem to move VERY slowly. I hope potential investors are patient with us because our club likes to SIT on things.