A couple of things. First of all I am completley unwilling to conceed the point that "they know what they are doing". Anyone who has followed MLS's history of transfer market dealings knows that this isn't always the case. They may know what they are doing, or they may not. We simply don't know. But if this transfer goes through then I don't think they do. I have absolutley no problem with your scenario, in fact that is exactly what I am hoping MLS does. But from everything that has been reported I am working under the assumption that MLS has agreed on a "low six figure" transfer fee for Mathis. So do you see the problem with MLS not doing what you suggested? MLS is about to pony up the money according to reports, they apparently aren't interested in seeing if Hannover is bluffing, and that to me is a huge mistake. You say yourself that if no one else is interested MLS "should hopefully be able to get him on a free". Well, it looks to me like we will never know if anyone else is interested. Another thing I didn't even bring up is that Mathis has the ability to reject the contract offers of any team. Basically he decides where he goes. So if he wanted to stay in Germany and there actually was another offer then he could reject the MLS offer and only negotiate with the other German offer. Contrarily if he wanted to go to MLS he could reject all other offers and only negotiate to MLS. Given this leverage I just don't see a scenario where MLS shouldn't be able to negotiate a free transfer.
Uhhhhh, Are you familiar with the concept of a team letting another player going on a free transfer even though their contract has not reached its end? Need some examples?
You can think it's a huge mistake, but you also have to admit that you don't know how the negotiations went, nor do you know what other teams were involved, how interested Clint was/is in those other teams, or what they were offering. You're being intensely critical of MLS and other posters in a situation where the facts that could justify your fury are not all knowable by you unless you happen to run Hannover 96. Your main point seems to be that MLS shouldn't pay a transfer fee if one is not necessary. That's not exactly insightful, or controversial. My original point, which you jumped all over, is that IF it is necessary to pay a fee to get Mathis to RSL, I believe that is a good investment relative to a transfer fee on almost any other player in the world, because he is as well-known to American fans as any other player in the world willing to play in Salt Lake, and will add character and buzz to an expansion franchise. For some reason, you seemed to think that meant that I thought MLS was smart to pay a transfer fee if it wasn't necessary. Um, no.
Well, he'll probably feel like he has "something to prove" again, and come out of the gates hot as hell, score a bucket of goals, start whining about 3.2 beer and not training hard, get hurt, miss 1/3 the season, come back at the end of the season and not play well, say he's saving himself for the playoffs, and then not do a damn thing while RSL gets bounced from the first round. That's pretty much par for the course thus far for Mr Mathis. Look by this stage no one doubts the guy's talent, it's just I find it hard to believe that anyone doubts that he's also a nutjob. He's the US's version of Paul Gascoigne...buckets of talent, total headcase.
Paying a couple hundred thousand for Mathis is worth it for an expansion team, especially considering the Millions everyone was clamoring for MLS to spend on LD, who hasn't even come close to proving he is that finanically worthwhile for MLS.
This is a good point if its about getting him to RSL no matter what the cost is what Travis is saying is that this parctice " no matter what cost" is not good business
are you familiar with the cincept of when there is money to be made small football teams like Hannover won't pass it up. There is demand for Clint so he will be sold not released. MLS made it known they want him so they created the demand. You can choose to understand that or choose not to. I really don't care either way.
In life ever man needs to be acutely aware of his own limitations. I have to admit I wish I was able to articulate my point as simply as this.
Nice. Even if they have a horrible defense, a good keeper should keep them in a match. Nice I thought John Kerry had applied. This is relative, open to interpertation. Here, we to a player for player swap, rather than a player for cash swap. But those in the soccer world do understand this. The example of a few is not the rule for all. Thanks for waiting until page 2 for the personal attack. And a retort to elicit a responce. I agree with the first sentence. The second is all speculation, from all sides. The third is speculation assuming that there was an offer/counter offer exchange, which no one has given evidence that there was. If 1860 offered, or somebody else, and MLS/RSL wanted him more, then a transfer fee was needed. If no one else offered, and 96 didn't want to give Mathis a free, well, there is the $200k, or whatever it really is. Yeah, but we all grasped this concept, then this thread would be about 3 posts long. And the responce was made. Really, you know this? How? How do you know about this limited nagotiation? Geez, you are acting like noone at MLS went to business school. We all agree with the free transfer part of it, but unless anybody was directly involved with the process, there was no indication as to whether or not MLS did request a free. I agree, and I am suprised that there was a transfer fee. But I also assume that MLS are not fools in buying player, just selling them. You are welcome to not conceed, and in the past I would agree. But you are also combining transferes in and transfers out. MLS policy used to be that they don't pay for bringing in players (LD would have been an exception, but special at that), but perhaps this has changed. I would agree with your point on who MLS brings in, and how much they get for players leaving, but not the reverse, as a general point. Specifics are always up for debate. And you were also not at the negotiation table.
I'd disagree with this, I'd say that the majority of players in Mathis' situation have been subject to free transfers, all of the players I exampled were from one month earlier this year. There are literally tons more. I just don't agree with this. Lets assume 1860 did bid for Mathis, but Mathis actually wanted to come to MLS (which is the only viable option if you are going to argue Mathis had other interest, because clearly he chose MLS over the other interest). Mathis had a contract with Hannover, it was completley within his rights to just stay on with Hannover and wait for them to accept the free from MLS. This happens a lot, and clubs with players they are trying to unload are commonly at the whim of the player as to their destination. MLS should have had the leverage to get Mathis on the free. I know this because the transfer is currently going through. MLS obviously didn't play hardball. Another post in this thread gave an entirely plausable scenario of waiting till January to see if Mathis' price goes down. I already mentioned Mathis' ability to turn down other offers if he preferred MLS (which is a point you have to conceed if you are claiming there was other interest in him). Even if it required a fee, it shouldn't have been sealed so quickly. I don't know how anyone can argue MLS played hardball judging on the quick sealing of thid deal. Um. I missed the part of business school dealing with the european football transfer market. It isn't an easy situation for MLS, I will conceed that. They feel that Mathis is an object of value for the league and I think they jumped at the ability to get him back. To the league, Mathis' value is well over $200k. But what the league doesn't appear to understand is that they can't let their business decisions be affected by their evaluations. The league puts an incredible premium on USMNT players that the market simply does not justify. My hope is in the future the league begins to have a valuation system more in line with the more accepted European one. But I'm done with this issue, I've said my peace, and in honesty this issue probably belongs in MLS N&A rather than Yanks Abroad.
All this speculation seems to leave out a huge aspect: What if Clint isn't willing to go straight from 1m/year to tops, what, 300k/year, ie, just leave Hannover on a free transfer? If not, then, as I stated in another thread, he may have Hannover buy out his contract for a certain amount, MLS may agree to a small transfer fee (200k is small, relatively) to help cover Hannovers buyout, and Clint may agree to sign with MLS long term in good faith for them agreeing to cover some of his buyout. Hannover gets Clint off their books for a smallish amount, MLS pays 200k to sign Clint and gets him for 5 years guaranteed, and Clint gets a smallish buyout fee, plus a 5 yr gig in MLS.
He was likely making about €500K with Hanover and will probably make ~ $400K with Salt Lake, an insignificant drop in the greater scheme of things once taxes and the cost of living are accounted for. PS. Mathis could play hardball with Hannover but it made no sense for him as the transfer fee wasn't coming out of his pocket and Hannover would have just promised to keep him even from practicing.
I kind of enjoy thinking about the financial aspect, so... I think most leagues put a premium on home-grown players. I follow the English Premiere League mainly, and the UK players' values are much higher there than in any of Europe's other leagues. Italian players' ...in their league, and so on. I think this is only natural -- fans want their teams to do well, but would rather see familiar names and faces in their team. Everyone has a litle bit of the xenophobe in them. The transfer markets are always going to be distorted in favor of native players, and there is recent news from UEFA that native player quotas for all of Europe are being investigated again.
Ya, that's why Roman wants Sheva ... because he is "home-grown". PS. Shabs, I don't know Clint's salary but he couldn't have made more than the established B-liga starters as a trialist with a relatively poorly funded team while MLS is making a push for him and will make him "one of the highest paid players". Josh Wolff is guaranteed ~ $450K, so $400K is not out of the realm of possibilities as Clint, for better of worse, is a bigger name and, under the best of conditions, probably a better player.
This is just flat out wrong. Even the casual fan should have a grasp on free transfers. Expect to hear about a bunch of them next month and pay some attention this time. We can all debate about offers, market value, demand... but we really don't have any inside information. The reports that are available make it look like the MLS could get Mathis on a free but we don't know the details. I can say that I've seen the MLS make enough bad purchases to doubt their abilities. MLS is obviously worried about losing him to someone else in January or they wouldn't be dealing with Hannover now. They could wait until after the Euro transfer period closes and then give Hannover a take it or leave it offer. This would be the best way to negotiate but it looks like MLS isn't willing to risk losing out on Clint. I think paying a fee for Clint is a big mistake, and sets(or continues) a bad precedent, but it is the MLS' money.
I never said a word about whether or not Clint would be sold or not so why you are wondering whether or not I understand it is anyone's guess. I was commenting on the fact that YOU said: (a) If a player is under contract and somebody wants him he will cost money. (b)If no one wanted him he would stay at Hanover until his contract ends. which is simply wrong.
Nothing official has been announced. Nothing official can be announced, or signed for that matter until January. The deal is not sealed (admittedly it's all but, but...)
How do you know? Here is a player who can't even make the bench right now, even though he is better than that.