There are times when players needle their opponents. As referees, when situations like these are witnessed, appropriate actions ensue. Right? English not being my main language, I had to learn words that are generally consider profane, and slang (still difficult for me). Even then, the first time I hear 'hoar' I did not understand until I was told that it is not good. However, since last year, I hear words from player that relate to others appearance (ginger, blackie, and some others), also sexuality (crying like girl (in boys match), what a twig, ...), and origin (go back, ...). And then I read a report some would not referee any more, like here - http://bit.ly/2P5GIsd. Is this trickling down to fields near you? Shame really, that skills and tactics from players and teams shown on the telly get adopted at regional and local levels, and then a few unpleasant characters spoil it for all others. Would you consider quitting as referee, help handle situations like these, or ignore? Does your league or referee association support you, if you abandon match?
Alright, so when I was going to post my original point, I assumed your link was to the other thread, where the guy thought about quitting after his game. But I left my original answer, because I realized that I glossed over the important issue you bring up, and that's what's happening all over the world. So I'll leave my old comment on the bottom. _____________________________ I know very little of the UK and it's racial politics. But I brought up incidents like this in another thread, and people told me that I was "over generalizing" or that "every sport has their crazies". That kind of thought process is why this stuff is allowed to fester and grow. Kids see it on the national stage, and repeat it at their games. It's a rare thing to meet a black soccer referee in NoVA. I can honestly say in the 500 games I do a year (I get around), I'm the only one in about 450 of them. I did a HS game with a whole black crew, and one of them commented "They got all 3 of us together." And that wasn't a joke. At that time there were only 3 black refs in the entire HS soccer group. I meet a couple African/West Indian guys, but that's an occasional thing and most of them live in Maryland. I know only one State Referee who is black. I know of no assessors, no instructors, and no one who is big up the tree on the SRC is black. Couple Hispanics, but that's it. Does it affect me? Well, I don't respect soccer, so not really. I just take my money and go. But I agree with the point in the article about the people who play the game. It's mostly rich white kids at the youth level. Rare is it when I see a predominately black team, or even a team with more than 3 Asian kids. Hispanic teams are common enough. But the pricing of soccer is pushing kids out. They had a futsal team for kids who lived in Section 8 housing (poverty kids), and they placed 2nd in the league. I reffed these kids, who barely spoke English, and they were beating the crap out of the "DA, ECNL, EDP" whatever teams they played. Will those kids ever get looked at by DA clubs? No, because they can't afford to fork over $5k so they can play with kids who are "elite" caliber. But without that discounted price, those kids wouldn't be playing. It's not racism, but class that is separating people. Sports used to unite folks from different cultures, races, and backgrounds. Now it's just another thing that divides us. Adult league? It's either white guys or Hispanic guys. And we had a league meeting where the director straight up said "We're losing teams because they can't afford to pay our rates". What drives the costs? USSF affiliation. So teams go and join an unsanctioned league, cause it's dirt cheap and they just want to play. http://proreferees.com/roster/referees/ http://proreferees.com/roster/assistant-referees/ Not a dark soul on those links. And that doesn't bother me. Because I don't care about MLS. I just want the cash. I'll leave the "fight for racial representation" at sports that interest me. Not so long ago they had a picture of USL refs, and let me tell you, that was one pink photo. Wonder when they took that down. But you know why this happens (ignoring the fact that PRO is importing foreign refs)? Because you have pay-to-play officiating: $390 to upgrade to State (before it became Regional) in VA? Four $65 assessments, $65 upgrade class, and a $65 re-cert class. $195, assuming you pass all three assessments, to get to Grade 5? And we all know that isn't happening. Fly out to Dallas for the DA Showcase? Orlando? California? They invited me to ref some Region 1 thing in Fredericksburg for 7 days last July. I'm not taking those days off work to do some kid tournament. You have to be rich to become a top soccer referee. Or at-least well-off at a young age. To get to the NBA? If you get noticed, they fly you out to their camp, and if you pass to the G-League (dumb-ass name), they pay for everything. EVERYTHING! You can actually afford to be a full-time semi-pro basketball referee. Yeah they got camps where you're shelling out a pretty penny if you want to do D1, but the pay out is better than college soccer. AHL? Even better. They have a damn union that got them healthcare and decent payrates. NFL? You got to grind through NCAA games, but football is only played half the year anyway. MLB. Yeah minor league umpires lead an awful life. I mean $3000 a month while being on the road 24 days out of 30 bad. I also don't agree with the modern movement for hiring people just so they can say "We have women, and blacks, and gays!" Cause I'd rather be hired for being good at my job than to be a goddamn check mark. Yet I don't want to quit because some dude is a racist. I don't want to quit because I got shouted at. I want to quit because people don't want to address the elephant in the room. That is why those guys want to quit. Because we are screaming that the house is on fire, and people are saying "If you don't like it, leave." ___________________________ I rarely hear any racial/nationalistic comments when I ref games. I usually hear trash talk during HS games, and I address that before it turns into a fight. Usually a stern word, and then cards so everyone else learns to STFU. As for "cry like a girl", usually they say "you a bitch". So it's a card, and I move on. The only time I had a "racial incident" it was directed towards me, because I happen to be the son of an immigrant, but don't look like I should speak Spanish. Either way got accused of racism (he mocked us with his Spanish accent), shot that down, and the team got kicked from the league. Not the first time that organization has had that happen, apparently. I say plan for it. As for abandoning the match, it'd have to get really heated for that. I mean a full on brawl. But most soccer players are awful at talking smack. Just a lack of creativity.
It is 4, 2, and then 3, but not 1. When the assistants are younger ones (can one write this, or will that be ageism?), they seem to be noticing more situations, esp when covered in pre-match conference.
This shows how little you know. And this explains why. As for the 500 matches a year you supposedly referee, you really must be sticking with the same couple of clubs, because soccer is very diverse in the metropolitan DC area at both the youth and the adult level.
1st rule of arguing, don't ignore points by the other party. You're tacitly admitting they are right. Still never seen one. Maybe they got him hiding in the shadows. Just like the Black refs they got in MLS... Did you read the article provided by the poster? And if you read my post, at the end I did address his question. But guessing by your previous use of "rubbish" in my old thread, you're English. And it's that dismissive attitude that your countrymen are tired of. You ignore the elephant in the room. I've lived in the DC area for most of my life. I've seen the "diversity" of soccer, and it's low. Having the occasional black kid (who is often the target man because he's quick) doesn't make it diverse. Or the token white kid playing on a Hispanic team because, well...that one was funny because the coach barely spoke English and I never saw that kid do more than keep the bench from flying away.
Yeah, AG Gomez, the SYRA is really hiding in the shadows. You really should stop guessing and assuming and making judgments about others based on your limited knowledge about soccer in the DC, Maryland and Virginia area, because each time you do, you demonstrate that you really do not know much about what you are talking about and in the process you trash others. I am dismissive of you because your attitude toward the game and to your fellow referees sucks and overshadows any decent insights or instincts you may have for officiating. Occasional black kid? Are you kidding? you must only be refereeing a few clubs. Token black and white kids? Do you have something about Hispanic kids? The DC area is incredibly diverse in terms of players of all races and nationalities and has long been a fertile ground for national team and professional players including Bill Hamid, Oguchi Onyewu, CJ Sapong, Jalen Robinson, Jeremy Ebobisse, Gedion Zelalem, Carter Manley, Eryk Williamson, and Donovan Pines, just to pull names off of the top of my head. So yeah, lots of token players. And you don't see black players in the adult leagues? You must not be refereeing the top adult leagues in the DC area (which is not surprising based on your attitude). As for black referees, are there lots of them? No, but they are more numerous than you make it out to be. From the top to the bottom, from USSF to college ranks Virginia, DC and Maryland's referee ranks are very diverse with two of the last three SDIs in Virginia having been minorities. But hey, if all that motivates you is money, then you really should stick to trying to make the college basketball ranks. Or maybe try Lacrosse as I hear that they have a shortage of officials and pay better than soccer. If you want to stick with soccer, become a better referee and move ahead in the ranks, we can always use good officials, you just need to decide if you have the right attitude to do more in the sport than just churn games for a buck.
First, your survey is flawed because answers 2 & 3 should both be done. And answer 4 is something that should be understood - if you hear something, do something and can be covered in your standard pre-game. As soccer is an international sport and in some areas of the US you encounter far more diversity, so one of the challenges will always be to understand what are offensive or racist or sexist phrases in different languages and cultures. Will you always know it? No, but you will continue to learn as you do more games and encounter more cultures. If you hear a racist phrase or comment as a referee, it is incumbent upon you to deal with it then and there and then to cover it in your match report. If you don't understand a phrase and a player brings it to your attention, you have different options - check with your crew to verify whether something is indeed racist, sexist or offensive; check the other players' reactions - what are they telling you verbally and visually? If you cannot be sure and you do not know for certain that the phrase was offensive, then have a discussion with the player in question - admonish them to not do it and report it to the league officials so that they can look into it. At the end of the day, the decision is yours based on your opinion of whether something is offensive. If you are unaware of the nature of the phrase, it is hard to have an opinion - so live and learn and apply it in your next match when you know more. By quitting, are you asking would you abandon the match? If so, yes, if you reached a point in a local league where you were having racist taunts from off the pitch - you should stop the match and not allow it to continue until those spectators are removed. If they do not leave or are not removed, then yes abandon the match. Most every affiliated league will back you in this - as will every state association. Just make sure that the taunts are indeed racist and understood to be racist. Again, if you are not sure - ask your crew and consult other people at the match who are in positions of authority (such as school officials for a HS or college match). As far as trickling down? What is said on the pitch reflects the broader society, and I would not go basing decisions on your local youth match in some suburb in the US to what is going on in London. Trash talking takes place in all sports. Always will be. That said, if you hear something that is said in a harassing manner on the field that is inappropriate, deal with it - quietly or publicly - depending on what the game and the players need.
I didn't know AG Gomez was black. Otherwise, you got a point here? Cause I was talking about Black referee representation. For Lord's sake, MLS has a bunch of Hispanic refs. I'm guessing the "shadow" joke flew over your head. Doesn't change the fact that I'm right. Or that that is why nothing gets fixed. People just ignore it. Dude, I can rattle off Black English players, and they are the guys who made up the article that was posted. Saying "Look at all these guys, see, it's diverse" doesn't change the fact that 9 players (a lot of which are foreign-born/trained) isn't a massive majority when we have THOUSANDS of kids playing in this area. But don't take my word for it. Just read my local paper. Or a sports website. Maybe a business website. How about a blog. Once again, obvious problems, that everyone else is seeing. We have one actual "Top adult league" nowadays. The other one is has been dying a slow death for the past 5 years now. And that's the league where "We're losing teams...". Unless you know of some other top DC league, (Don't throw Maryland Mid-Majors into this, they play outside B-more) that's it. Give me a number. Cause they aren't in the West, they aren't in the North, and I've not met a lot (read any) in the Central part of the state. Maybe in the 757. And don't throw Mungra at me. Nice guy, but that was years ago. As for Maryland? I avoid crossing the river, but even then, I rarely meet black referees. ...Ok? I will say that I agree with you in that what is happening in Europe likely won't affect the US. But the US political environment is getting closer to it. But that's another conversation.
BubbaAtlanta, I tried to edit, but could not. Perhaps I go through one of the moderators to fix it from button to box. Stand by.
But ah, the perils of the medium - it looks like it may morph into something else. I am fast learning that the attempted point made by one person can leave their control. So here's wishing this thread stays on topic.
My point - specifically rebutting your claim that there are no African Americans in the SRC or at the higher levels in VA/DC/MD: AG is a retired national, an assessor, an instructor, and lucky for him SYRA. His son's have reached the National referee ranks, though they are focused on their families and careers now. If we all strove to give as much as AG has to the game and to our country, our nation and our sport would be even better. There are active and emeritus African American State Referees throughout the region refereeing USSF, college and HS soccer. If you were doing games outside of your comfort zone, you would know this. As yes, you are right and everyone else is wrong. Gotcha. Well, go and earn that $$$ while the rest of us give back to the game with our time and effort and commitment.
Why do you keep adding MD? MD is separate from VA/DC. Ah yes, one man makes it diverse. I take it you never read "The Spook Who Sat By the Door"? Hey, I was wrong. We got one dude at the table. I've never heard of him, but hey, he's there. Let's just watch the professional black refs in the MLS like...oh yeah, those links I posted aren't really showing that "diverse referee" picture you are painting. Dude, how many? Because I'm not seeing them. At all. I'm right in that soccer has a race/class problem (at least in the US and apparently the UK) which people have started to notice. From players, to journalists, to people who just ref for money. Something that you are dismissing out of hand. That's what I'm right about. And Psychops, I like that you posted that article. Because this is exactly what that article wanted to spark: a conversation about race in soccer.
In Maryland, we have a very diverse group of referees. In my last two sets of DA games, I have worked with more Hispanic and African referees than white referees.
Good ole'PG county with the largest number of Black middle-class families. However, that quantifier "last two sets of DA games" is what begs the following question: Overall, have you worked with more white referees or minority referees in MD? I leave MD out for the specific reason that I rarely ref over there. I get enough games in VA. But I've been all over from Fredericksburg to Culpeper County, from the MD Sportsplex to SE DC (which I don't recommend). As for the deleted post: WPL is the top league in the DC Area. And if you think it's not, well, I guess ex-Pro and D1 players aren't don't qualify for "top men's league".
More white referees, mostly because I live in the northern half of Frederick County. However, we do have some minority referees in our area as well.
Except you haven't refereed a WPL game, so you don't know the make up of the teams, yet you make broad claims that there are no black or African Americans playing adult soccer in DC/VA. As for Maryland, Northern VA and DC teams and players play in Maryland all of the time. And technically WPL is a Maryland registered league even though right now most if their games are played in Virginia and DC. At the state level, most of your referees work games in both states and are part of the same pool for higher level USSF and college assignments.
I've found out after games from my ARs several times that there was an incident of racial abuse and then didn't tell me at the time. There should be more formal training on how to deal with it, we get so much instruction to do with concussions now, some more focus on racism would be nice. Oh sorry, was this off topic?
Don't worry about it, this guy just likes to bash me ever since I made a post that accurately described the issue with soccer refs and how the people in soccer react to dissent. They ignore it. If you've noticed, he's ignored the article itself. Or the other various articles I've attached. I've also commented how the training should be reformed. Grade 8 courses are worthless. As for Baka, yeah, guess I should've written "Mostly white guys and hispanics". Still not a lot of black soccer refs. Since you know so much, you got that percentage for me?
It's ironic that off topic is actually on topic. Deliberate abuse and/or woeful neglect of economic inequality, systemic racism and gentrification's effects on participation while real and important, was not the purpose of this thread. To your point and back to @psyc1Ops 's point, this is one thing I wish got more direction from the powers that be. I have no problem taking care of what is obviously discriminatory language, but it's the more shrouded language that is hard. Should we immediately sent off a player who gets mad at a female referee and says "It's not a foul cause she's a girl."? Or when a player gets a card from a latin ref and the player says "Listen, we're not latinos, that's not a card."? Especially with younger referees, who may hear something obviously racist or feel un-empowered to deal with it, assuming they don't hear something and incorrectly assume that's "okay" to say, for whatever reason.
I remember a referee came back to HQ in the league I assigned having abandoned the game. Somehow nobody had told me that there were 2 RC and a coach was in process of being dismissed. The referee asked, quite embarrassed that he might have just been too sensitive, if he correctly gave a RC for one player using the N---- word to another. I looked him dead in the eye and said, "Absolutely. At least once a year when I was in HS, there would be a fight at some kind of game for an opponent using that kind of language." To the original post: I would absolutely terminate a match if that kind of statement is coming from spectators and quite frankly league support wouldn't influence my decision. On the field is harder. I've had games where I know something has been said and I spend most of the game too close to a specific player trying to hear something else and keep him from retaliating.
No, the point is you do not describe things accurately and you become dismissive when your claims are challenged and shown to be incorrect. And yes, I have not bothered to comment on most of the articles you have posted because they are irrelevant.