Pre-match: March Friendlies - Ecuador & Chile

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by AutoPenalti, Feb 3, 2019.

  1. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    Why should we focus on our local tournaments? The results from the Hex are binary - either we make the world cup or we don't. Given that we have consistently made the WC without a possession style, it is completely unclear to me why we'd need to change our style for the Hex. So we can get a high grade on a pass/fail exam?

    Here's what we have traditionally done in the Hex without playing a possession style*.
    • Either won or came in second place
    • Mexico: Win @ Home and Tie/Lose away: 3.5 points total
    • Costa Rica: Win @ Home and lose (badly) away: 3 points
    • Other teams: Solidly beat other teams at home and tie away: 4 points
    This is the baseline for our expectations and if we don't exceed this, it seems like a terrible trade to me.


    *note, I believe that we usually have out-possessed the Panamas/TnTs historically although that wasn't our primary goal
     
  2. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    For all those who ascribe to the conspiracy theory around call-ups, please explain why on Earth USSF, SUM or Don Garber would insist on Wil Trapp being called up? Or Lovitz, or Baird or a seldom-used Lewis? How about Zardes or Ramirez? And what about Omar Gonzalez???? Does SUM think they'll sell more tickets with those guys? Does Don Garber see them as the faces of the league and want them promoted? Does USSF then get their orders from those two on that basis?

    It's perfectly rational to not like Berhalter's call-ups. But to make the leap to some conspiracy to get Jonathan Lewis PT or some such is nonsense. Klinsmann made tons of rando call-ups, just they were usually European-based players whereas Berhalter has made his rando call-ups from MLS, Gonzalez excluded. Not surprising given that he's coached in MLS for the last 5 years and has seen first hand these rando guys he calls up.
     
    wsmaugham and Marko72 repped this.
  3. kickin365

    kickin365 Member+

    Mar 4, 2002
    He is really not able to compete as a standout or even average starter for his club, hence why most of his time is on the bench there when he is healthy.
     
  4. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    As a certain poster likes to point out, I'm a reluctant conspiracy theorist but can understand the point.
    1. It would be deeply problematic for MLS from a PR point if none or very few of the starters for the USMNT currently play in MLS, even if they started in MLS like Adams.
    2. MLS has a clear viewpoint that it's not far off from the best leagues in the world and its champions and former USMNT coach have stated it as such: "B1 player didn't make the squad because there are MLS players who play that position." Again, this is even to make the squad and see how they perform in practice. We left players who play at a demonstrably higher level than MLS off the squad while actively promoting mid/late career MLS players.
    3. It's not about Lewis, Zardes, Lovitz, Baird, etc. specifically but what they represent. More specifically, it is clearly in MLS' interest that the incentives for young USMNT prospects is to stay in MLS vs. heading over the the elite training programs at some of the best clubs in the world. Therefore, whenever a choice can be made between a high ceiling prospect who is at a major league/Big 4 program but hasn't earned a starting role and a regular (but not an All-Star) starter in MLS, the USSF consistently choose MLS to dissuade up-and-coming-players from leaving MLS if they want access to the USMNT.
    4. Similarly, if there's a choice between MLS and equivalent minor league European leagues (Championship/B2/Scandinavian), it's again in MLS' interest for the USSF to systematically choose the domestic player. That's why many players such as Holmes, Gall, Robinson, etc. don't even get a sniff of the team. Again, we're not talking about getting playing time but even getting a chance to practice with the team.
    5. There's not much to justify MB being the centerpiece of the USMNT marketing last year.
    6. There's not much to justify WT being named captain in his first handful of USMNT games
    Here are mitigating circumstances that could indicate the theory is false:
    • If the spine of the field does not include MB/WT for a good portion of these games.
    • If Weah, Sargent, Amon, Gall, etc. play for the U23 program
    • If Chandler, Morales, Wood and FJ get called up in future camps.
    • If an MLS heavy team absolutely dominates these friendlies
    If a majority of these do not occur, I'm hard pressed to say that there isn't real smoke here.
     
    TarHeels17, btlove, jnielsen and 9 others repped this.
  5. FormerNo10

    FormerNo10 Member

    Juventus
    United States
    Dec 13, 2018
    OK, woke up this morning and the frustration is going away with this b.s. roster.

    I have come to the conclusion that a lot of these players will be exposed as weak links in the upcoming friendlies. My instincts also tell me that if Adams is slotted in at RB so that WT and/or MB can man the DM, then we will get our asses kicked. Maybe not as bad as vs England and Italy but not far off.

    MB skill set (?): experience and diagonal passes. Trouble is, that assumes that we have their defense on the heels and are controlling the ball, then MB can jog around the back for 90 mins connecting easy passes w/o pressure. He also has a M.O. of always making a very weak back pass around the 43-45 minute mark putting our GK under extreme pressure. These upcoming friendlies will expose our defensive liabilities especially with this roster

    So, after these 2 friendlies I do not expect to see these roster call ups as anything but emergency fill-ins.

    Lastly, I do NOT buy into the importance of the Olympics. I want to see a solid core of good players growing together and playing cohesive soccer building towards the WC with the Sr. team. Hopefully a lot of the current U20 players will be the next big wave of talent.
     
    Patrick167 repped this.
  6. G-boot

    G-boot Member

    Manchester United
    Nov 6, 2004
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Does anybody know when players report in/ are no longer available for club teams?

    Fantasy sport question.
     
  7. nobody

    nobody Member+

    Jun 20, 2000
    I don't believe in a conspiracy theory. I am just not convinced Berhalter is that good of a coach yet. I hope he proves wildly successful and that this trepidation proves unfounded. But we hired a guy who failed in a lesser Euro league and has been middling in MLS. I don't think it is ridiculous to want him to prove he's got what it takes before accepting his notions as gospel.
     
  8. laxcoach

    laxcoach Member+

    United States
    Jul 29, 2017
    intermountain west
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If the 'Lima' role is such a success, then it's Lima's gig. Why screw with the middle of the field where you want your best players/athletes/skill sets? Why lean so hard on lessons learned with an all MLS roster in camp cupcake, given it was Berhalter's first go? I hope mr MLS is smarter than that but until he proves it I fear he's got your vision of the future.
     
    jnielsen repped this.
  9. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    Just looking at it is astonishing. What he got right was largely no brainer oriented:

    Keeper: Can quibble with Johnson, but otherwise it makes sense.

    Defense:

    No brainers: Brooks, Miazga, Yedlin

    That's fine, all 3 make total sense.

    Acceptable:
    Long: He more than earned it.
    Ream: I guess?

    A reach:
    Lima: Apparently he's looked awful and pulled twice early in the MLS season, doesn't exactly suggested he's doing well for club (though I liked him in his call up against those C teams).

    What?!?!
    Omar: <Word I can't write>. Just comically bad, I'm not joking in saying there are at least a half a dozen distinctly superior options available. What in hell was he thinking? Bringing in vet leadership? Really?

    Lovitz: Please....You're joking right?


    Midfield:

    No Brainers: Pulisic, Adams, McKennie
    All obvious choices.

    Acceptable:
    Arriola: I wouldn't have, but I understand rolling out a winger you're familiar with, even if he isn't in my top 4 options.

    Lletget: Perfect example of a player earning a call up, though apparently he got hurt?

    Reach:
    Bradley: Come the <censored> on. Can we please let this go already? God awful in the latter stages of qualifying, even worse with his club in '18, doesn't play horrific against garbage sides in Cupcake and now he's a key midfielder? I'd forgive this If I thought GGG was using this as an opportunity to transition from one Captain to another during '19, I (and others) predicted after Cupcake Bradley'd be in the 23 for the Gold Cup and possibly starting and this underlines that. While I wasn't hugely surprised, it's still a massive reach and unacceptable. Particularly when you add that he doesnt appear to help foster the transition to other potential captains instead typically silencing the younger players around him by his presence (possibly by his actions.

    Will Trap: He's just not going to give up on this is he? Will Trap is 1997 U.S. International soccer, he's not 2017 let alone 2019. It's a joke. Run him out in Cupcakes, maybe add him as depth to domestic friendlies but pretending he can hack it at this level is like the most egregious of Jurgen's <censored moves) at the tail end of the WC '14 Roster to exclude Donovan.

    Roldan: I'm of two minds about this. #1 He's shown a lot at club level in recent years, enough to suggest we've just had him on bad days, or with bad options that didn't reveal his talent. #2 Regardless, he hasn't shown enough to earn the call up over other options, period.

    Fowards:

    No Brainers: None

    Acceptable: C. Ramirez. Might be worth seeing what he has against bigger competition.

    Reach: J. Morris and G. Zardes

    Morris: He sucked in '17, was out injured in '18, and according to reports was basically pretty bad for Seattle w/two good moments (and in fairness, a Forward that sucks all game, but poaches/scores two goals is always worth having around, everyone needs a totally and completely impoverished to the bone version of Pippo Inzaghi).I classify him as a reach, rather than a "What?" for the same reason as Zardes, both have had plenty of call ups over the years, and their share of moments, so classifying them as mindboggling decisions isn't entirely fair.

    Zardes: As said above, he's had his moments, and had plenty of call ups so while my personal response is "What?" it's unreasonable to list his inclusion that way. He simply doesn't have the tools for this level of the game w/o being set up perfectly on a platter ALWAYS and then he'll finish an inefficient amount of said chances because he does one thing expertly well in terms of attacking: finding openings in defenses. It's too bad he's got a donkey's touch, and is a terrible finisher.

    What?!?!?: Baird and Lewis

    Baird:

    J. Lewis: Baird is worth of empty space for obvious reasons, Lewis is an interesting prospect down the line, but who in the blank is telling me either of these guys deserve a spot over Wood, over Novakovich (whether you rate him or not), Weah, Sargent, and I could go on and on and on.

    What's truly astonishing in the call ups, and why I referred to it as the worst roster I've ever seen in my 29 years of watching the USMNT connects to three key factors:

    1. The habitual habit of including past it or never had it vets who simply don't cut it at this level and have proven it numerous times or no longer have it:

    This would be Bradley, Omar, Zardes and Trap.

    2. The inclusion of numerous players that have done literally nothing in terms of either club, international level, or both, to suggest they're worthy of a call up at this point:

    That would be Corey Baird, Jonathan Lewis (who I do like), and Daniel Lovitz.

    3. The exclusion of numerous players in Europe and in MLS that have suggested with club or country their potential, or talent and utility who didn't get call ups:

    Sargent, Weah, Canouse and so many more.

    The roster turns on really those three themes: the inclusion of past it or never had it players almost entirely related to leadership or MLS connections, the speculative adding of MLS prospects who are nowhere remotely close in talent to players we have overseas who weren't called in, and of course the seeming fixation in rewarding players available cupcake and excluding players not available for cupcake.

    This is a truly frightening Roster Call Up because it's a full international. It should reflect who GGG sees as a mix of the most ready right now players that contribute, and the best young players to blood or continue to integrate that aren't available for domestic unofficial friendlies. It is EMPHATICALLY not that, it's a roster filled with MLS speculative and past it and never had it adds, and seems to have reflected an almost punitive approach to players who have decided to go overseas to test themselves in the toughest leagues against the toughest players and/or to try and build a career through stepping stone moves there.

    The reason it is the worst roster I've ever seen is the inexplicable nature of it. Past rosters have been bad, no doubt, but have you ever seen decisions analogous to the ones that we see here? Vets that make no sense, prospects that are nowhere near the level of others at this moments, several wtf type choices that are simply impossible to understand, repeated inclusions of players that add little. It's a mix of the worst of all worlds: Past it players, Never Had it Players, and Prospects that aren't at the level of others, quite clearly. I've never seen this before, EVER.

    I've seen rosters that were bad, or just bad in spots, but I've never seen rosters that have wtf type decisions everywhere including an entire position grouping where all the players called in are bad fits/not worthy (Forward) considering the options that were available and what was chosen instead.
     
  10. RalleeMonkey

    RalleeMonkey Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    here
    Because no one has ever conspired to do anything?
     
  11. RalleeMonkey

    RalleeMonkey Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    here
    And, his "honeymoon" period expired halfway through the Sarachan era. He can blame the Fed for that. But, he has to hit the ground running. He's got 2 real friendlies (the last 2 were a jojke) to sort things out for GC. To quote Izzy Mandlebaum, It's Go Time.
     
    jnielsen and vexco repped this.
  12. jond

    jond Member+

    Sep 28, 2010
    Club:
    Levski Sofia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What's interesting here is nowhere did I say the role was a support role.

    However, moving a top 3 player for us away from his best position (central) to placate and to fit around lesser players (Baldy, Styrofoam Willie) suggests they are written into the XI first, then Adams fits around them.

    If it were to happen.

    And if it were to happen it makes Adams a support player as he would fit around Baldy/Willie, not vice versa.

    And it sure as shit should be vice versa. We build this thing around Pulisic, Adams and McKennie. You put them where they're best and then fill in support around them.
     
  13. RalleeMonkey

    RalleeMonkey Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    here
    Seriously. Adams is already playing at a higher level for his club team than Bradley ever did in his career, let alone now.

    And, Berhalter is going to push 20 year old rising star Adams to RB to make room for 31 year old way past it (thank you for your service) Bradley?

    The best spin to put on this is that Berhalter is tied to his vision for Adams based on where Adams was a year ago, and he's stubbornly not adjusting his perception.

    The other two possibilities are USSF/MLS is dictating that Bradley plays (they pay him a ton of money after all) or Berhalter is an idiot.
     
    btlove, Namdynamo, laxcoach and 2 others repped this.
  14. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    My question is:

    Are they just assuming said players will be released or did they get guarantees during Berhalter's tour of European clubs?

    My assumption ALWAYS going in at this point is that players won't be released, period. They aren't released for tournaments w/anything like consistency, and for camps, please, that NEVER happens. So what is happening here? Is this a case of wishful thinking, or guarantees provided?

    My second question is:

    What's more important? To provide our U23 team with our best young prospects not named Adams, McKennie or Pulisic? Or to roll out dramatically inferior young prospects, and total nonentities in their stead as replacements for games against legit sides that have qualified out of one of the two most difficult regions in the world?

    Seems pretty simple for me that the answer they came up with was emphatically and categorically wrong, and the only room I'd kind of give them on this question revolves around whether or not they seriously and sincerely believe that said prospects will be available for this camp AND Olympic Qualifying, and if they believed anything that any clubs may have said about the latter premise....well, there is a bridge in New York, and I've just obtained a very valuable lease on it, and Berhalter should seriously consider taking advantage of this one time opportunity for profit.
     
    Patrick167 and Winoman repped this.
  15. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The "Lima role" is a gimmick designed to give naive fans the impression that GB is a tactical genius. It was useful against an awful Panama C team and a non-factor against CR's C Team. Reggie Cannon, his coach, and others have already clearly detailed the issues with such a gimmick.

    i am sure that Tata is salivating of the prospect of playing against a silly gimmick and counting how many clear cut chances are created by catching the switch in transition.

    Anyone who watched City dismantle my 04 with Pep's standard 4-3-3 know that a LB playing LB and a RB playing RB works brilliantly playing possession/attacking schemes.
     
    btlove, onefineesq, USA-Zebuel and 2 others repped this.
  16. smokarz

    smokarz Member+

    Aug 9, 2006
    Hartford, CT
    Where's the F****CK is US soccer media? Did they interrogate GB on his roster selection?

    Or did they took the brown bag under their hotel doors, and ran off to the Caribbeans?
     
  17. smokarz

    smokarz Member+

    Aug 9, 2006
    Hartford, CT

    This^^^^^

    The greatest success comes from maximizing and perfecting the BASICS.
     
  18. Tony in Quakeland

    Jan 27, 2003
    Pleasant Hill, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Clearly because he has proof that the moon landing was faked and is holding Obama's birth certificate hostage...
     
    wsmaugham and Pragidealist repped this.
  19. smokarz

    smokarz Member+

    Aug 9, 2006
    Hartford, CT

    What else did you expect from an MLS level coach?

    At least Bradley and Arena can claimed that they won MLS titles, what did Greg win as a coach? NOTHING


    Hammarby - 46 games, Win 39%
    Columbus Crew - 193 games, Win 38%

    You hired a guy that never win more than 40% of his games as your National team coach? That have literally ZERO International coaching experiences and never won a trophy.

    This is the best that you can find to coach your National team? Don't tell me the USSF is not rigged.
     
    btlove, Namdynamo, laxcoach and 4 others repped this.
  20. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    They'll play this weekend's games, then report for national team duty. MLS players will miss their clubs' games next weekend.
     
    G-boot repped this.
  21. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    Let’s discuss which positions touch the ball the most in GB’s model and whether our best players are matched with the high impact roles?

    IMO, our best midfielders should touch the ball the most but don’t feel that attackers have to have as many touches as certain elite players may be better slipping behind players into space than always looking to receive balls in less dangerous positions.
     
  22. schrutebuck

    schrutebuck Member+

    Jul 26, 2007
    I'd divide the March callups into five groups, two of which I have problems with:

    1. Bradley - the category for 2018 veterans most likely who should be in the picture but will always draw complaints. Altidore will go here too when he's healthy.
    2. Gonzalez - the category for the 2018 veterans who probably shouldn't be called up and will always draw complaints if they are. I'd probably stick Guzan in this category, sadly for him.
    3. Youth players - I don't buy the USSF's explanation for Sargent and Weah, as I expect any U-20s in Europe to get refused callups by their clubs for the U-20 WC if they are useful pros. Same with U-23s.
    4. 2nd tier European pros - I'm okay with Berhalter continuing the trend followed by Arena and somewhat by Klinsmann (with his hatred of the English Championship) of avoiding too many callups from non-Big 5 leagues. I'm pretty neutral on this, however, because Bob Bradley did a good job with his more adventurous callups.
    5. Rewarding Camp Cupcake players - I have no problem with #5 at all. If players like Baird can't perform against better opponents, then we'll learn quickly.

    If #5 is a problem, then USSF can schedule a special European Camp Cupcake in July after the Gold Cup, so that European players can miss their club preseasons just like MLS players!
     
    wsmaugham and Marko72 repped this.
  23. Three and Three

    Three and Three Member+

    Sep 13, 2015
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Sorry, gang. Has Berhalter indeed suggested that Adams will be used / deployed at right back for the coming friendlies?

    I quickly ready a couple of interviews with him and I didn't catch as much.
     
  24. dlokteff

    dlokteff Member+

    Jan 22, 2002
    San Francisco, CA
    "If I'm thinking about Weston who as a No. 10 but then defends as a No. 8, Christian as a No. 10 who also moves wide, or Tyler is a right back who can come inside and can also overlap or inner-lap; those are the things that are exciting to me," the U.S. coach said. "It gives a lot of flexibility in the team."
     
  25. schrutebuck

    schrutebuck Member+

    Jul 26, 2007
    LOL. It's as if Klinsmann had announced his infamous Danny Williams at RM experiment ahead or time.

    If this doesn't work very well, then Berhalter's experiment will be remembered just the same.
     

Share This Page