In David We Trust - the de Gea Thread

Discussion in 'Manchester United' started by Numquam Moribimur, May 24, 2011.

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  1. JamesA

    JamesA Member+

    Dec 7, 2004
    Victoria
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    I was referring to schmikes v DDG specifically.

    Schmikes had a vastly superior group of defenders and a settled team. And in general, a much less competitive league, especially in terms of facing talented attackers.

    DDG was younger and had a much bigger adjustment coming in. He had a more difficult task than Schmikes did.
     
  2. johno

    johno Member+

    Jul 15, 2003
    in the wind
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    I can't judge based on how old DDG was. That's got nothing to do with the situation we were in as a team.

    I think you potentially slightly overrate our defenders under Schmikes and underrate just how mad of a team we were. We played gungho flying wingers and 2 strikers... we played so much more cautiously in later years.
     
  3. Ashur

    Ashur Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    May 31, 2015
    Riding off into the sunset
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #1628 Ashur, Jan 15, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2019
    Ben Foster on De Gea's performance vs Spurs.

    www.talksport.com/football/473971/watford-ben-foster-david-de-gea-manchester-united-tottenham/

    Foster's comments touch on the crux of the matter for me and I agree with them 100%. Some of the saves Dave had to make appeared relatively routine or perhaps Spurs's players might have done better, but Dave excels in his positioning and footwork.
    On top of that, he's one of the most clever keepers I've seen in terms of getting how plays develop and reading the game in general. And that's one the main reasons he gets to do a lot of saves with his feet, ice hockey style: because of his positioning.
    For the times he does find himself caught out, he still has those incredible reflexes and cat like agility, but the majority of the time, he knows precisely where to be, which makes his save look easier most of the time.
    And in the end, it's just a pleasure watching him work. And no disrespect to Schmeiks, who himself was phenomenal (especially in his first 5-6yrs at the club) but Dave is the best I've seen at the club, in my personal opinion.
    Hope we get to see I'm the coming years Dave with a competitive team challenging for domestic and perhaps even European titles and if he successfully does, he should decisively leave Schmeiks and VdS in his wake, as it's the only area they hold a significant advantage over Dave at this time. That and the fact they both played consistently in far superior teams, with much better backlines in front of him.
    Dave played shortly with Rio and Vidic on the decline. VdS got those 2 in their prime plus Evra, GNev, Brown, O'Shea just to name those guys. The Big Dane had the Neville Bros, Irwin, Stam, Johnsen, Pally, Bruce among others. Really not trying to hear anything on that when we compare who Dave has had in front of him.
    And our style of play might have been more wide open and attack minded, but our backlines for the most part were far more self sufficient, than our guys post SAF.
    It's not either VdS or Schmeiks's fault, but it is a factor that weighs heavily in their favor. And as mentioned, that's just sticking to the back: from the back all the way to the front, they both were in better, more complete teams than Dave (with our last title winning team the best one by far).
     
  4. incighte

    incighte Red Card

    May 1, 2016
    Nah. Jaap Stam was a ********ing OG, mate.
     
  5. Naboomagnoli

    Naboomagnoli Member+

    May 31, 2007
    We were just playing in the same way as almost every team - GWAC, 4 attackers, 4 full-on defenders, at least one hard man and one slightly more attacking CM. Defenders were used to playing 1v1, teams were far less organised in attacking systems, and the average technical ability of the Premier League was nowhere near what it is now. Plus the offside rule was vastly different, and did a huge amount of defending for teams at the time.

    Schmeichel had by far the easier job out of him and DDG. Schmeichel is judged as one of the world's best at the time relative to his peers who had approximately the same task, maybe a bit easier in some cases but our defence at the time was highly rated. We were attack-minded but we were also hard working, we always got 9 or 10 behind the ball, we carried noone. Plus our greatest strength was our counterattack - if you want gung go attacking imbalance then look at Newcastle, not Utd.

    The extent to which DDG is worked for this Utd side is far greater than we ever saw with Schmeichel in the 90's. I cannot think of a single of De Gea's peers who plays for such a poor defensive side, and this is in an age where most defenders are attackers first.

    I love Schmeichel but let's not misremember the past to big him up. It does a disservice to our defensive unit at the time.
     
  6. benni...

    benni... BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 23, 2004
    Chocolate City
    I looked up stats. The treble season, before and after.

    The season before we were 2nd and had the best defense. The following two seasons we conceded the most goals in the top 4, then top 5.
     
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  7. Naboomagnoli

    Naboomagnoli Member+

    May 31, 2007
    The treble season we conceded less than a goal a game (37 in 38), and then the season after Schmeichel had moved to Sporting Lisbon.
     
  8. Ashur

    Ashur Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    May 31, 2015
    Riding off into the sunset
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
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  9. gatekeeper2

    gatekeeper2 Member+

    Jun 1, 2015
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Truer words have rarely ever been written. Well done, JamesA.

    Peter had substantially superior defenders, both central defenders and fullbacks, to Dave. As fantastic as Lindelof has been the last two months he'd be nowhere near United bench in any United squad during Peter's tenure. And I hope no one is suggesting that Jones or Smalling or Bailly are anywhere close to Pallister, Bruce or Stam.
     
  10. Anonymous_United

    Manchester United
    Brazil
    Jul 13, 2018
    Its not even a debate for me, DeGea > Pete > VDS.
     
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  11. gatekeeper2

    gatekeeper2 Member+

    Jun 1, 2015
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    #1636 gatekeeper2, Jan 17, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2019
    Gotta agree with that. Seriously, as great as PS and VDS were, and both are in the conversation for top ten keepers of all time, DDG is simply on another level.

    I remember Ashur, then known as Dee1_n_only (fine bother denying it, Ashur) pushed back on me in Dave’s first season when I called it that he’d go on to become the greatest keeper in the history of the game. His doubts at the time were reasonable, but it was clear as day Dave was destined was greatness.
     
  12. Ashur

    Ashur Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    May 31, 2015
    Riding off into the sunset
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  13. Ashur

    Ashur Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    May 31, 2015
    Riding off into the sunset
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  14. United 16

    United 16 Member+

    Manchester United
    Mar 25, 2016
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Maybe one day we would see A DDG statue at OTT alongside the holy trinity. He certainly deserves something better for saving our a**es so many times.
     
  15. Playboy Red Devil

    May 3, 2010
    West Hollywood
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    http://www.espn.com/soccer/soccer-t...elaying-90m-de-gea-deal-at-man-united-sources

    It looks like it is agent fees that is slowing the progress.
     
  16. United 16

    United 16 Member+

    Manchester United
    Mar 25, 2016
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
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  17. Ashur

    Ashur Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    May 31, 2015
    Riding off into the sunset
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/fo...avid-de-gea-new-contract-danger-a4077141.html

    We've got the money and Dave is the best keeper in the game, so he deserves to be paid and we should do so promptly. But putting that aside, this is precisely the type of thing that worries me with Sanchez remaining under contract with United: it's going to mess up our whole pay structure and inflate our wage bill even more over time.
    Sanchez is not just the highest paid player on the team, but in the Prem as a whole, yet his level of play in no way reflects that. It's only normal that players will want to be on par with him or even ask to be paid more. Not hard to conceive what Pogba will ask for when the time comes for him to renew his contract.
    Guys like them deserve their money, but keeping Sanchez around gives most players (not just superstars) a lot more leverage and for just reason if we're being honest. That's another reason (among many) that it's important to find a way to remove Sanchez from the club ASAP this summer.
     
  18. Diable Rouge

    Diable Rouge Member+

    Jul 17, 2006
    if the rumours are true that he's passing on 350k... yes, he's the best shot stopper in the world (i don't think he's the best overall goalie anymore considering what some top goalies can do with their feet) but i feel like united have negotiated in good faith. i would not be worried by giving romero the #1 spot.

    don't get me wrong, i'd like us to keep de gea... but the alternative doesn't really scare me.
     
  19. MizzouMUFC

    MizzouMUFC Member+

    Apr 10, 2010
    Places
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Romero is a top level backup but a very, very average starting goalie. There's a reason why I hasn't ever been a starter for an even average European club. His last starting gig was Sampdoria I think. Plus he's hurt a lot for being a keeper.
     
  20. Ashur

    Ashur Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    May 31, 2015
    Riding off into the sunset
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm still confident we'll reach a deal with him. He's obviously angling for the biggest payday possible, especially since it's likely to be his last huge one.
    But this is a clearly a by product of the Sanchez contract as stated above. You can't really fault him at all for wanting to be on par with the highest paid player in the team, with him being arguably among our very best players (having been so for years also).
    I like Romero, a lot actually, but he still probably would be on the level of someone like Carroll or Barthez IMO, meaning solid most of the time but probably good for bad mistakes/games at odd or crucial times. We'd still need to upgrade if we're to challenge for the top, top trophies.
     
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  21. Diable Rouge

    Diable Rouge Member+

    Jul 17, 2006
    i don't think this has much to do with sanchez, honestly. i'm also not super comfortable with making our goalie the best paid player on the team. as you've said, we've had the best goalie in the league for the last few years and we are where we are - it's absolutely not his fault but there's also a limit to that position's impact on generating wins. goalies are sometimes like nfl running backs: you need one that's good enough but you don't need to break the bank to be a great team.

    tl; dr: pay him but don't pay him like he's cristiano or messi.
     
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  22. Ashur

    Ashur Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    May 31, 2015
    Riding off into the sunset
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In truth though, Dave will not be the team's highest paid player in the team for long. Eventhough there is still some time left on Pogba's contract, Woodward if he's smart will be sure not to let his contract run down. And we can be sure that if he stays with us, it's going to cost the team big.
    Dave is 28, meaning he probably still has plenty of years in him: have no problem locking him up for big money for the next 5yrs or so. It's worth it to us: goalkeepers prices as Alisson and Kepa showed are at a premium right now. And bringing in a quality replacement will cost us lots in terms of the fee. Might as well just bite the bullet and use that money (at least part of it) towards Dave's contract. It's something I'm very comfortable with personally.
     
  23. johno

    johno Member+

    Jul 15, 2003
    in the wind
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Yeah, Dave can hit the trail if he wants to get paid Sanchez money. GKs don't get paid like attackers do and while Sanchez obviously isn't worth even a third of what he makes, he was a marquee attacker on a free. That's a huge difference compared to a keeper already at the club.

    We would obviously need to replace him, but we can't afford to pay him like that.
     
  24. benni...

    benni... BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 23, 2004
    Chocolate City
  25. Sofabloke

    Sofabloke Member+

    Dec 24, 2003
    Mu
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Ed made this Sanchez shaped bed - he is going to have to lie in it.

    If Ed thinks running the players contracts down will not harm player performances and team morale he is wrong. The longer he leaves renewals the more big signing-on fees come in to play also.

    DDG performance will dip (along with the teams), but other teams will still line up to take him.
     

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