First Team G, Nicole Barnhart*, Jr., Stanford, Gilbertville, Pa. D, Keeley Dowling**, Sr., Tennessee, Carmel, Ind. D, Holly Gault, So., Kansas, Spring Hill, Kan. D, Natalie Jacobs, Jr., Penn State, Centreville, Va. M, Lori Chalupny*, Jr., North Carolina, St. Louis, Mo. M, Lindsey Huie**, Jr., Portland, Laguna Woods, Calif. M, Diana Matheson, Fr., Princeton, Oakville, Ontario M, Leslie Osborn, Sr., Santa Clara, Menomonee Falls, Wis. F, Esmeralda Negron*, Sr., Princeton, Harrington Park, N.J. F, Heather O’Reilly*, So., North Carolina , East Brunswick, N.J. F, Christine Sinclair*, Jr., Portland, Burnaby, Canada F, Tiffany Weimer*, So., Penn State, North Haven, Conn. Second Team G, Meghan Miller, Sr., Kansas, Seattle, Wash. D, Haley Hunt, Jr., Stanford, San Marino, Calif. D, Melissa Miller*, So., Ohio State, Cincinnati, Ohio D, Melissa Tancredi*, Sr., Notre Dame, Ancaster, Ontario M, Lara Dickenmann, Fr., Ohio State, Kriens, Switzerland M, Sarah Huffman, Jr., Virginia , Flower Mound, Texas M, Jill Oakes, Jr., UCLA, West Hills, Calif. F, Christina Frimpong, Sr., Washington , Vancouver, Wash. F, Tara Hurless*, Sr., Illinois, Rockford, Ill. F, Megan Kakadelas, Sr., Santa Clara, Carlsbad, Calif. F, Katie Thorlakson, Jr., Notre Dame, Langley, British Columbia Third Team G, Erin McLeod, Jr., Penn State, Calgary, Alberta D, Liza Barber, Sr., Harvard, Des Moines, Iowa D, Ronda Brooks, So., Auburn, Marietta, Ga. D, Jennifer Simonetti, Sr., Dayton, Copley, Ohio M, Jennifer Buczkowski, So., Notre Dame, Elk Grove, Ill. M, Fran Munnelly, Jr., Colorado, Arvada, Colo. M, Brittany Timko, So., Nebraska, Coquitlam, British Columbia F, Kristen Graczyk*, Sr., Connecticut, Corona, Calif. F, Laura Kane, Sr., West Virginia , Pottstown, Pa. F, Iris Mora*, Jr., UCLA, Cancun, Mexico F, Caroline Smith*, Jr., Kansas , Edina, Minn. Thorlakson second team, what a joke (among others)!!!! She's player of the year, no question.
Re: NSCAA All-Americans This could be an early indication that Thorlakson is not going to get the Hermann.
Re: NSCAA All-Americans Not only would that indicate that she wouldn't win, but may not be one of the three finalists when they are announced in the next 10 minutes or so. Again . . . what a joke! What more would you ask of a player? She skips a chance to play for Canada's U19s, is the NCAA statistical champion in points, and leads her team to the National Championship . . . Did the NSCAA turn over voting to the tournament selection committee???
Re: NSCAA All-Americans Yep, finalists for MAC Herman are O'Reilly, Sinclair, and Weimer. No Thorlakson . . . I'm disgusted. (XYZ . . . can you change the name of this thread to MAC-Herman Trophy and All-American Teams? It might prevent a bunch of splinter threads later on. Thanks)
Re: NSCAA All-Americans DISGUSTED IS NOT EVEN STRONG ENOUGH!! What more could she have done this year...really what do they want from a player...they should be ashamed...Even the announcers during the championship game said she was more or less a shoe in...they went as far as to say..how could they even consider anyone else.....
Re: NSCAA All-Americans Indeed, how could they consider anyone else. I would take Katie T. any day. She plays her rear off every minute of every match and is as unselfish as they come. She elevated the rest of the Irish and carried them to the title. Oh well, what more can she do?
Re: NSCAA All-Americans I had the opportunity to watch Sinclair and Thorlakson during the season and Thorlakson was, at the very least, Sinclair's equal. Not even being a finalist lessens this award tremendously.
Re: NSCAA All-Americans I watched Sinclair play against the Irish. They pretty much shut her down. If you didn't know who she was you couldn't have picked her out as being a difference maker. She scored but it was a weak goal off of a collision between Erika Bohn and a defender. She just tapped the ball into an open net.
Re: NSCAA All-Americans just relax. my understanding is that the nscaa is just that, the national soccer coaches association of america. included in it are many non D-I coaches who dont get to see the games and dont know much more than what they read and see on scoreboards. my advice is pay more attention to soccertimes or soccerbuzz (someone call me on it if i'm wrong)
Re: NSCAA All-Americans Quote:just relax. my understanding is that the nscaa is just that, the national soccer coaches association of america. included in it are many non D-I coaches who dont get to see the games and dont know much more than what they read and see on scoreboards. my advice is pay more attention to soccertimes or soccerbuzz (someone call me on it if i'm wrong) Which All-American award carries the most distinction, NSCAA or Soccerbuzz or Soccertimes? Too bad about Thorlakson. Makes you wonder who picked the finalists. Maybe the same people who picked the seeds in the tournament. I know that there is subjectivity, but this is AWFUL!
Re: NSCAA All-Americans First of all congratulations to the players on their postseason award. It's not as if they nominated and voted for themselves. With that being said, I question what goes into the criteria for consideration. I know that there are many outstanding players to choose from. One selection that I was curious about aside from Thorlakson not making 1st team, was the selection of Iris Mora of UCLA. She was third on her team in goals and points behind Adams and Davis yet she made All-American. Not directly saying that she is undeserving, but how does she leapfrog two teammates with more impressive stats? I did notice that she apparently was an AA last year. Did that merit some extra consideration?
Re: NSCAA All-Americans I was proud to see O'Reilly sub out for Hamm. Passing the torch. If we could get her proper service from the midfield (UNC and the NATS) she could catch Mia's goal record i.m.h.o.
Re: NSCAA All-Americans I agree that O'Reilly is a great player, but I don't think anybody will equal Mia's record. Remember she was 15 when she started playing and many of the US games over her career were against far inferior teams - many of those teams (like Mexico, Canada, etc) are much better and the US will rarely beat them by 8-10 goals any more.
Re: NSCAA All-Americans I think that Iris Mora is a wonderful player and I'm glad she has another year at UCLA, but I don't think she had an All-American year. She got off to a slow start because of the olympics and the need to makeup missing credits. On the other hand, I think that both Bristyn Davis and Kendall Billingsly deserved to be considered. Congratulations to Jill Oaks for a great year. Sophister
Re: NSCAA All-Americans Easier for you to relax since you are a Tarheel fan and they were very well represented in the voting...and they are very much deserving of those votes dont get me wrong...but the Herman award is the most distinguished award no doubt and Katie deserved to be recognized ...at least as a first team All American. Notre Dame has an undefeated season, she is the countrys leading scorer, they win the national championship and no one from ND is on the first team...what gives!!
i agree that it's weird that no one from notre dame was on the first team (they werent undefeated). i also thought sarah huffman of UVA was pretty damn good. the heels were well represented on the first team, but i think kacey white and maybe kendall fletcher should have at least been on one of the teams. i also didnt know that the nscaa is the group that votes for the mac hermann, my mistake
Here's a direct comparison of Thorlakson and Weimer by a Div 1 Coach who scouted and played against both of them. Wisconsin Head Coach Dean Duerst (asked to compare Thorlakson and the nation's points leader, Tiffany Weimer of Penn State) - "They are very comparable and outstanding goalscorers. Weimer has some people around her that play her through a little bit more forward. She scores a lot more goals on just breakaways and she kind of just hides out there whereas Katie is very involved in every aspect of Notre Dame's game. ... They are two of the premier players that I've seen in the past few years in the country."
Weimer is a nice forward, very fast, great moves on the ball. Did she drag her team to the National Title? Nope. Brittany Timko third team? That's priceless! Brittany Timko at midfield?? That's priceless too! Who makes these lists and do they watch any team besides UNC?
Just a couple of things . . . 1. the NSCAA voting system is pretty arcane to say the least - but ONLY Div. 1 WOMEN's coaches are voting for the women's D1 AA's. 2. placement is determined by the # of votes you get (each coach gets a blank ballot to fill in an "all opponent team") AND a formula related to strength of schedule and your own team's record (and I have NO idea what that formula is, really) So . . . pretty much every year someone gets burned - the Weimer instead of Thorlakson deal is particularly bad, but it does happen every year. Obviously Weimer would be more legit on the 2nd team. I also thought that UCLA's defender (the one who missed the PK) should've been on the team - she was pretty impressive in college cup. Of course, the voting was done at the end of the regular season!
Thorlakson was without a doubt the league MVP. Awarding the Mac-Hermann trophy to anyone else is just plain buffoonery. It would be funny if it wasn't such a travesty. I feel sorry for all the NCAA players who deserve better (especially Katie) and embarassed for the NSCAA who had every opportunity to do the right thing and didn't. What a shame.
I've learned from years past that sometimes the most deserving players don't get the recognition they deserve. Just cause you lead the nation in points and lead your team to the National Title and are the best player for that year, doesn't mean you'll get recognized with the Hermann Award(ask Danielle Fotopolous). In that sense, the award is a complete and utter joke and it's a shame that Katie Thorlakson won't win it. If she played for Carolina she'd have been the runaway winner for this award. I just look at the 3 finalists and while all are great players, none can match what Katie did this year. What a joke.
On the positive side, the MAC-Hermann Award mistakes are usually corrected. Based on past history, Thorlakson will get it next year to make up for this year. Sinclair will get it this year to make up for 2002 (when she really deserved it).
I think you hit the nail on the head, particularly about Sinclair. Reddick is an outstanding player, but she got it last year largely on the basis of her play with the national team. Tarpley was clearly the best player around last year. She was out this year with a broken leg, so if she is in contention next year, she'll have a strong shot, both for her year and for makeup for last year.
Whatever the Mac-Hermann award is supposed to be, it's regarded by the public as the annual MVP award. There is no question that Katie was THE MVP STORY in 2004 - as Sinclair was in 2002. In NCAA history there are very few players (maybe none) who have scored the most points in the nation and led a team other than UNC to the College Cup. The facts (please correct me if I'm wrong): - 23 college cups since 1982 - 6 cups won by teams other than UNC - 2 teams with more than 1 cup (UNC 17, ND 2) Non-UNC cup winners/top scorer's NCAA Div 1 Ranking - 2004 ND/ Thorlakson (#1 in Points) - 2002 Portland/ Sinclair (#4 in Points) - 2001 Santa Clara/ Wagner (#3 in Points) - 1998 Florida/ Fotopoulos ? - 1995 ND/ ? - 1985 George Mason/ ? So in 23 years of NCAA College Cup history the list boils down to only 3 possibilities where another player might have accomplished what Katie did in 2004. More stats: Thorlakson 70 total points (ranked #1) 32% of ND total points 33% of ND Game Winners ND Seeding for College Cup - #4 ND placing - 1'st Weimer 64 total points (ranked #2) 40% of Penn total points 32% of Penn Game Winners Penn Seeding for College Cup - #2 Penn placing - top 32 Sinclair 55 total points (ranked #4) 36% of Portland total points 50% of Portland Game Winners Portland Seeding for College Cup - #5 Portland placing - top 8 O'Reilly 37 total points (ranked #18 approx.) 17% of UNC total points 15% of UNC Game Winners UNC Seeding for College Cup - #1 UNC placing - top 16 As a final measure, MVP's are expected to come through when their team needs them most. Thorlakson put crucial points up on the board in EVERY ND playoff game - including the Championship. Of the 3 finalists, only Sinclair managed to score in the most important game of the year - a 3-1 loss to ND (where Thorlakson scored 4 points to Sinclair's 2). Not only were the other 2 finalists shut-out in their final games, their teams failed to perform up to their seeding, especially Penn State. Thorlakson did more than enough to win the Mac-Hermann Award and should have. The fact that she wasn't even named to the AA first team is a disgrace.
O'Reilly 37 total points (ranked #18 approx.) 17% of UNC total points 15% of UNC Game Winners UNC Seeding for College Cup - #1 UNC placing - top 16 Those stats show me that although O'Reilly is no doubt a great player, when her numbers are compared to the other finalists( or even other All-Americans) she doesn't measure up. Obviously the WNT exposure and consistent hype has helped her stature among the people who present this award. O'Reilly numbers apparently come up short to many other MVP caliber players. The numbers show that UNC can win without O'Reilly. Can it be said for Portland, Penn St. Notre Dame, Ohio State, Princeton, etc without their top players? I would think that the Hermann would signify the most valuable player. If those numbers above are accurate, then Ms. O"Reilly is a huge benificiary of the hype. And don't try to sell me on intangibles, every great player has them. At this juncture, she appears to be a very good player on a great TEAM but not the singularly most valuable or dominant in the country. Maybe she could more cleary demonstrate her dominance on a less stacked team but for now and probably for the rest of her career at UNC, that won't be the case.