Welcome Frank de Boer!

Discussion in 'Atlanta United FC' started by GunnerJacket, Dec 23, 2018.

  1. Poachin_Goalz

    Poachin_Goalz Member

    Jun 17, 2002
    Athens, GA.
    I liked Frank de Boer as a player. I know that he came through the legendary Ajax youth system. That club's youth development is a major reason that Holland has been able to hit way above it's population weight at several world cups. I hope that he implements some of the Ajax philosophies in the ATL UTD youth system.

    That being said, his first challenge will be in the player acquisition market. I have always believed that the toughest positions to develop are in order 1) striker 2) attacking midfielder 3) left winger and 4) left back. Just look at the USMNT's troubles over the years in having quality players in these positions. ATL UTD had exceptional (by MLS standards) players at 3 of these 4 positions. However, Garza has been sent packing and Almiron is all but already gone. Atlanta is not a championship caliber team as currently constructed without those players. Hopefully Atlanta can go out and acquire so new fan favorites.

    Good luck to Coach DeBoer. I always liked Klinsmann as a player too but that didn't work out. Let's hope that in this case, there is substance behind the talk. If nothing else, the potential knowledge and implementation of Ajax youth system elements into the ATL UTD youth system would be invaluable. For that reason alone, I support the hire.
     
  2. Guardien

    Guardien Member

    Oct 7, 2013
    Alpharetta, Georgia
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Imagine, if you will, that instead of having Tata as or first coach we had had someone else. Now, imagine that we were considering Tata as that coach's replacement to carry on the success we had experienced over the last two years, what would people say?

    I imagine we would hear a lot about how Tata may be a big name, but had only had success at Paraguay, and even then he'd never won a trophy. Anywhere. Ever.

    His last two stops at Barcelona and Argentina were definitely not successes, and he wasn't at either place for a whole year. We were ecstatic about Tata two years ago because we were a new team, lucky to attract the attention of such a high profile manager. Today we're defending MLS Cup champs.

    FdB has had FAR more success than Tata at both the player and coaching levels. They've both had huge accomplishments in their careers, and some failures. I just don't understand how anyone can look at FdB and not think he's in Tata's class, or that he doesn't deserve a shot at continuing Tata's legacy here. Tata was not a slam dunk hire, but he turned us into the dominant team in MLS. I think FdB can take us a step further.
     
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  3. VFish

    VFish Member+

    Jan 7, 2001
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Atlanta
    This is spot on! I would just like to add that back in 2016 when we were searching for our first coach Frank de Boer would have not even have been on our radar. Why? Because he was out of our league, a big name coach with an impressive record of success. Now, after unsuccessful gigs at two clubs in disarray and that didn't buy into his system, he is suddenly a viable option for Atlanta United. Unless you truly believe he became stupid in the last 2 years, this hiring is a coup and the fact United beat out Belgium powerhouse Anderlecht for his services speaks volumes for how far we have come in a very short period of time.
     
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  4. VFish

    VFish Member+

    Jan 7, 2001
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Have you ever listened to an interview with Darren Eales, Carlos Bocanegra, or Arthur Blank? Or read some of the Atlanta United statements or press releases? Are you even aware of the club’s philosophy or what they are trying to build here?

    Hiring Frank de Boer isn’t a signal that we are shutting down the “South American pipeline”, on the contrary, it is a signal that we are going to continue to develop young promising talent, either via the academy or by signing players (typically from SA). Frank de Boer is the perfect manager that system, and for a guy like Ezequiel Barco, who has tons of potential but is still green. Same for Pity Martinez when he arrives in Marietta.

    And you are wrong about not being able to develop MLS level talent through the youth program. You’ve already got a handful players like George Bello and Andrew Carleton that show the system is going to pay off. These guys are super young and have already taken the pitch for the 1st team. Already scored goals for the 1st team. I don’t know if you’ve seen Bello play but I am very excited about his potential. He is only 16, the kid has bright future in front of him, and I can’t wait to see what FdB does with him.

    We are building a program where we develop young, promising players and then sell them (the good ones to bigger clubs abroad). A buy low, sell high, and then restock system. In essence we are trying to duplicate the Ajax system. I hope you can figure that out one day.
     
  5. VFish

    VFish Member+

    Jan 7, 2001
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Bigger than who? Both Atlanta and Columbus have already told him "thanks, but no thanks". Perhaps he can go to LA since they seem to be having a hard time filling their coaching vacancy.
     
  6. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    In theory this is a good idea. However, I've not seen any MLS teams implement the Dutch academy system which starts with players as young as eight years old. They also have age group teams who engage in regular competition. The Netherlands have a big advantage over the US in that the country is small and youth competition between clubs is easy to implement. there is also Champions League youth competition and Ajax has regularly taken part in that one which is for U-19 players. The sheer number of Ajax developed youth players dwarfs the entire effort of MLS over the past years since the league became serious about youth development. The league is still reliant on the college system for players along with transfers in of selected foreign talent.

    DC United, whose games I attend, have a decent academy but maybe have only developed six or so players in the last decade. I would like to see MLS succeed but I think that there are too many teams and not enough top flight talent. Props to Atlanta for getting a lot of things correct and winning MLS this season. We'll see if this leads to some long term success.
     
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  7. Auriaprottu

    Auriaprottu Member+

    Atlanta Damn United
    Apr 1, 2002
    The back of the bus
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    It's impossible to know --or even guess-- without a name for the first manager and a roster telling us who these players are and why they came to AUFC.
    My guess is, they'd probably say what they were saying when he was hired. Managed Barca, managed Argentina, knows the country's footballing system and can maybe pull some talent out of there.

    There was never an issue about his not being successful with Argentina. Nobody's been "successful" by their standards in two decades, and Messi has too much influence on the team. We were ecstatic about Tata because we knew he'd have ties to one of the two biggest providers of non-UEFA talent, extensive knowledge about their players, and maybe he could get some of that talent to come here and take advantage of his Liga and Barca ties.

    Tata was absolutely a slam dunk, both at the time and in retrospect.
     
  8. Auriaprottu

    Auriaprottu Member+

    Atlanta Damn United
    Apr 1, 2002
    The back of the bus
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Yep. Add to this that the Netherlands is a footballing nation. MLS doesn't have the talent among its hopeful youth to successfully do the Ajax thing if AUFC is going to become/remain head and shoulders above the rest of this league in talent. Atlanta doesn't have to promote from AYSO.

    I'll say it again: Tata did what was expected- he searched his own nation for diamonds in the rough and found several.
     
  9. VFish

    VFish Member+

    Jan 7, 2001
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Bear in mind we are building this program from the ground up. We have only been an organization since 2014 and only fielded a team for 2 seasons. We have youth teams from U-19 down to U-12 and also have a second-tier professional team Atlanta United 2. Already we have had players advance from the youth academy to AU2, and from AU2 to the first team. We also have training facilities that are world class. There is a huge commitment to the development side of the club and our owner has very deep pockets. That is the reason we are able to attract coaches like Tata Martino and Frank de Boer, rather than settle for a Ben Olsen (no offense to DC United).
     
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  10. VFish

    VFish Member+

    Jan 7, 2001
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Perhaps you should explain to Arthur blank that he throwing his money away with this youth academy and ask Tata Marinto why he wasted so much roster space with HGP players that will never see the pitch. It is strange, on the P&CE board you keep preaching to fans of other MLS teams that Atlanta wants to share its secret to success, but you don't even buy into the AU concept.
     
  11. Guardien

    Guardien Member

    Oct 7, 2013
    Alpharetta, Georgia
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    You do keep saying it, but that doesn't make it true. By all accounts he did none of the recruiting. Tata was not flying around Argentina watching games and talking to agents, our scouting network and Bocanegra were doing that. Tata was responsible for coaching them up once they were here.

    Were we better able to recruit players because they knew Tata would be their coach? Of course! That's basically all we had at the beginning before the training grounds and the championship. Now we have more to offer prospects than the coach. We're in the final stages of demonstrating a pipeline to Europe and one of the biggest stages to perform on in the Western hemisphere.

    I have no way of knowing the answer to this, but I suspect that if you asked young South American players if they had a strong preference for being coached by Tata or FdB, there wouldn't be one. They just want the best coach available, regardless of nationality. Carmona, Josef, and Miggy all signed up to play for a legendary Argentine, why wouldn't players like them sign up to play for a legendary Dutchman?
     
  12. Auriaprottu

    Auriaprottu Member+

    Atlanta Damn United
    Apr 1, 2002
    The back of the bus
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Not talking here about the outliers. I'm talking about one nation. Over its short lifetime, this club has had six Argentines in its starting rotation aside from Villalba. LGP, Barco, Hernandez, Escobar, Remedi and Asad. That's not a coincidence. The scouting network does not operate independently of the manager.

    The bolded: we will get some Euro players. But we don't and won't have a pipeline to Europe's up and coming, because they are already on the continent where they want to play. If FdB can get talent on the level of Josef, Miguel, Barco (yes, he will be a factor), Pity, LGP and Hector and win a title, I'm good with it. I don't see the former happening.
     
  13. Guardien

    Guardien Member

    Oct 7, 2013
    Alpharetta, Georgia
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    You misunderstand me. I'm talking about a pipeline from South America through Atlanta to Europe. This is the appeal that is going to continue attracting young South Americans. No one in MLS can depend on pulling highly talented, young Europeans in to develop. It's not a viable model at the moment.

    I'm also guessing the fact that we have a ton of young Argentinians has more to do with what you keep saying about it being the second biggest, non-EUFA provider of talent than it does the nationality of the previous coach. There's just more, young, high-quality talent coming out of that country to pursue than the others. I guess we'll just have to wait and see if that's the case, but I suspect that our recruiting targets and successes don't change noticeably with the change of management
     
  14. VFish

    VFish Member+

    Jan 7, 2001
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Atlanta
  15. VFish

    VFish Member+

    Jan 7, 2001
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Atlanta
    It was interesting to see Frank de Boer seamlessly switching from questions in English and Spanish. Hopefully that will stifle any remaining grumbling from the "Schelotto / SA pipeline" camp.

    And his comments on the importance of the youth academy and having no hesitation to play a young gun with the first team when they are ready was also very encouraging. Hopefully we will be producing an abundance of home grown talent 5 to 10 years down the road.

    Carlos was even more tight lipped and evasive than usual on the Pity Martinez question. I am guessing that means the Miggy negotiations are heating up.
     

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