Can anyone please explain the different levels of the USL. I see there is Division 11, Division 111, USL One, USL Championship. What is the highest league? What league did the City Stars play in before they went to the NASL.Is the NASL dead? And Lastly where does the NPSL & PDL league fit in with all this. And there was rumors of a new league whereas they announced Akron having a team.
This is a good place to start: https://www.uslsoccer.com/unitedforsoccer USL is moving to three leagues in 2019, The Championship, USL Leage One, and USL League 2. The Championship will be the highest league in USL and a sanctioned second division by USSF, one level below MLS. Most of the major USL markets (Indianapolis, Pheonix, Sacramento, etc.) will compete in this league, as well as some MLS II teams (although we are seeing a trend of them moving down). USL League One will begin play in 2019 and has filed for official Division III status. This will consist of some new smaller markets (Greenville, Madison, Lansing, etc.) as well as a few existing teams (Richmond, Rochester) and MLS II teams (Toronto, Orlando). They want to build this to at least 24 teams. USL League Two will essentially replace/absorb the PDL as a development league and effectively serve as fourth division, although likely will not be sanctioned as such by the USSF. As far as the City Stars are concerned, they never competed in the NASL (which is on “hiatus” but really is as good as dead). The Stars competed in what was then USL-2 for two years and the USL-1 for one year before going defunct. It is not a direct comparison but if you want to look at it in current terms, they were in USL League One, made the jump to The Championship, and failed. The Akron team your referred to, Rubber City FC, initially announced plans to join a competing proposed Division III League, NISA. NISA has applied for Division III sanctioning but is unlikely to get off the ground. Akron is now trying to compete in a proposed NE Ohio amateur league.
If you don't like Martin Rennie, there's not much else to say. The man has won where he's gone. Was done wrong by Vancouver, and their fanbase says the same. You gave some numbers of Pittsburgh. That's it. There's minimal soccer in the US that is sustainable. Minimal. Montreal's owner come out and said that they lose nearly $12m a year. So, to think that 1400 is "fine" is just plain wrong. But, since you know, what are the soccer numbers in Cleveland over the last 10 years? If they are doing better, please tell the country what to do different since the whole country is losing numbers. We need good leadership to turn around the numbers. Also, don't necessarily blame the "gross mismanagement" from USL2 to USL1 on the City Stars ownership. There's more to that move than what should be given to just the City Stars leadership, you know that right?
The same Martin Rennie who, after Vancouver. crashed out of the Korean Second Division and has landed his ass back in USL? That Martin Rennie? Look, I have no problem with the guy, but Pep Guardiola he ain’t. He’s not even a Brian Schmetzer. Using him as some sort of proof that the leadership behind City Stars were brilliant is laughable. I would continue to argue with you, but you don’t really even have an identifiable stance. What are these “soccer numbers” you continue to blab on about? How would they relate to a professional soccer team now, in the year 2018, in the city of Cleveland? It’s not my responsibility to tear down an argument that you haven’t even built. In the end, you are just the same guy who spends his time on other boards wailing about promotion/relegation, prophesizing that upon its implementation thousands of clubs will organically emerge across the land, heralding a new dawn of soccer in the US. Yup, that sure sounds sustainable. You know, on second thought, maybe you are right. Maybe failure of a team 10 years ago really does mean that Cleveland can’t support soccer. I mean, when the Cincinnati Kings were in the USL second division in 2006, they only drew a paltry 1,153 fans a game. Clearly, that town is not ready to embrace high-level professional soccer either. My bad.
Vancouver fired Rennie undeservedly. Vancouver isn't setup great, and even just fired Robinson. Rennie took over a team that was nothing and built them respectably. And, do you know anything about the Korean club Rennie went to? Probably not. If you did, that situation speaks for itself. Where did I ever say that City Stars leadership was brilliant? Rennie won there -- just like he did at Cascade Surge and Carolina. Every successful manager needs the support of their club, sometimes they are able to win in spite of their club's lack of support. City Stars were in a great location and drew minimally. Cincinnati Kings were in a terrible location and drew even less. If you've experienced how FCC operates, you'll understand that things are a little skewed here -- cheapest tickets in USL, billionaire ownership, on campus of 44,000 students, etc. Clevelanders have yet to support any soccer there -- City Stars, AFC Cleveland, and now Cleveland SC. But, there's "ambition" in new ownership for a DII franchise? C'mon now. That's pipedreams still. AFC Cleveland couldn't grab any support and they won a national championship. Might as well just shoot for DIII and lose less money than one would in DII. That's all I've said from the beginning. Any ownership knows it's a losing situation financially. Especially in areas that have shown they won't support the sport at a professional level.
Inferring that NPSL teams are “professional level” is by far the funniest thing you have said thus far. Really, stop it, my sides hurt.
Never inferred anything. Not even remotely. But, pros do come through these amateur sides, so there is a lot of "professional" about them. Players have to start and get experience somewhere.
You just said Cleveland is an area that “won’t support the sport at a professional level,” right after citing two NPSL teams as evidence of your perceived lack of support. So actually, you did more than just infer, you said it. Your words, chuckles. Own them. I’ll just leave you with one more thing before I am done with your drivel for good. This is based in actual reality, though, so you are going to have to work hard to keep up. Sacramento, Louisville, Cincinnati, and Indianapolis are all in the top five of attendance in USL. One of them is headed to MLS, the other is a prime candidate to do so in the near future. Prior to joining USL pro, NOT ONE of those cities had ANY history of drawing notable attendance for lower division teams. Not. A. Single. One. You live in a fantasy land, and it is a sad one.
Exact quote: Looks to me as I said "any soccer" instead of stating "professional level." I put the emphasis in the quote just to show what was actually stated. Who's the one spouting drivel? You can't even get the "quote" right. It's all about being realistic right now. Cleveland isn't realistic in having a USL Championship side right now. This thread started how long ago? 2014. We are not any further along now than we were nearly 5 years ago (will be 5 years in 2.5 months). It's quieter than ever for Cleveland pro soccer. If people need a billionaire to come in and have their toy, then how much of a fan are they anyway? How sustainable is it? When will they fade? The honeymoon of MLS isn't so great. If "fans" need shiny stadiums, WiFi, seat backs, etc. then it's never been about soccer, it's about just having a plush social setting.
It's important to note where all was being referenced, eh? Notice that Louisville and Cincinnati were started as DIII? Wow. Interesting! Chattanooga, Greenville, Tucson...all DIII. Now, who's showing their stupidity?
Apologies. I didn't mean to exclude Sacramento and Indianapolis. Of course, Sacramento started off in DIII as well. Indianapolis started off in DII, but for other reasons (avoid USL franchising, primarily). We also would have seen USL stay in DIII, if USSF didn't grant tons of waivers for them and NASL collapsing too. So, nearly all your citations have foundations in DIII. Please tell me where I was off base now with the suggestion that Cleveland start off in DIII?
So, I was there for the City Stars. The league undeniably pushed the club to move up. The club HAD to leave Krenzler because they were required to play in a bigger stadium with an actual press box. The team didn’t have the resources to move up, but the league was desperate. The move up was so unexpected that Rennie didn’t even know, and he probably would’ve stayed in Cleveland had it been announced sooner. We probably would’ve also kept the core of the team Rennie took with him to Carolina.
Right. But there were some factually incorrect things said about what the City Stars did. I wanted to correct that.
https://www.protagonistsoccer.com/features/being-as-cleveland-as-possible Profile on Cleveland’s soccer team:
It is highly probable there will be a USL (Championship) side in Cleveland by 2020, also a USL2 side to go along with it.
Would Cleveland SC survive in 2020 once the Force join the USL? I think that CSC should join NPSL Founder's Cup in 2019 or else they'll be at risk of being made redundant. An ideal situation, imo, would be a joint NISA and NPSL Founder's Cup/Pro. It would be a 18-20 team league with the likes of NY Cosmos, Miami FC. I don't see Cleveland having both a USL (Force) and USL D3 (CSC) side.. one will have to go and it seems to be a no brainer as to which has more funding.
Are we just wishing we have a couple of teams in Cleveland or do we have a group of investors lined up? Don't we have to have like owners before we get a team?
I know from pretty good source(s) that Cleveland is aiming to play in 2020. Cannot say who is involved. Cannot say if CSC is involved. But, I'm not sure how CSC would even be considered for anything "pro" since they are a small-time NPSL side. It's a major jump to pro, even the NPSL "Pro" model is a huge jump. There's much more to do for CSC to make a jump that high. USL2 sides are done for development/identification purposes. The teams that do it right have utilized it to produce a lot of pros. It gives the USL/MLS side an opportunity to bring young players in and train daily. They aren't money makers for those entities, it's purely for expanding the player pool. Stand-alone USL2 sides are trying to do both (money and development).
I also have it on good authority that Cleveland will have a team in Liga MX by 2021. (Yes this is a joke and I cant believe I have to specify. Blame the Crew boards)