The You don't see that very often thread

Discussion in 'Referee' started by Father Ted, May 21, 2018.

  1. Bubba Atlanta

    Bubba Atlanta Member+

    Mar 2, 2012
    Yep, Atlanta
    Club:
    Atlanta United FC
    Spot on. YHTBT, and you have to see it, and you have to know it when you see it, and there are many ifs ands and buts that go into all of that. For me I think it tends to be almost a gut level call -- and my personal standard reflects my view that, just like "got the ball," it is not a license to mug the opponent.

    I will add that when I do call it, I will almost always have a quick word with the offender, explaining why I did.
     
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  2. refontherun

    refontherun Member+

    Jul 14, 2005
    Georgia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #327 refontherun, Nov 5, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2018
    Things you don't often see? I actually had a kid named Zlatan in a U13B game yesterday. He was also a third again taller that most of the kids on the field.
     
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  3. Kit

    Kit Member+

    Aug 30, 1999
    Herkimer, NY, USA
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I will disagree here. Even if you get any of the ball before making contact with the attacker, it can still be a foul if any contact with the attacker is made. Touching the ball does not make a player immune from committing a foul. The example that I have used is a player slides and gets the ball without touching the attacker; however, as that player slides passed the attacker, he grabs the attackers legs with his hands bringing him down. He got the ball without making contact, but he also committed a foul and quite probably a misconduct.
     
  4. wguynes

    wguynes Member

    Dec 10, 2010
    Altoona, IA
    I was never advocating a blanket "but I got the ball" defense, but getting the ball first is sure going to raise the bar for the amount of contact required to make it careless.

    Under no interpretation was the video anywhere close to your hypothetical example.
    A mistimed challenge here could bring it to careless.
    If not mistimed then the bar to careless goes up.
     
  5. Kit

    Kit Member+

    Aug 30, 1999
    Herkimer, NY, USA
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I did not watch the video. I was just saying getting the ball before making contact with the attacker does not negate if a foul can occur. I often have to correct players/fan when they make that comment. "I (or they) got the ball! How can it be a foul!"
     
  6. jayhonk

    jayhonk Member+

    Oct 9, 2007
    Last week, I had an attacker named Yannick battling a defender named Noah.
     
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  7. Beau Dure

    Beau Dure Member+

    May 31, 2000
    Vienna, VA
    The Providence basketball team once had a player named God Shammgod. He was once matched up with a player named Abraham, and yes, God fouled Abraham.
     
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  8. Bubba Atlanta

    Bubba Atlanta Member+

    Mar 2, 2012
    Yep, Atlanta
    Club:
    Atlanta United FC
    Ha ... thus reminding me of my all-time favorite Dylan lyric:

    Oh God said to Abraham, “Kill me a son”
    Abe says, “Man, you must be puttin’ me on”
    God say, “No.” Abe say, “What?”
    God say, “You can do what you want Abe, but
    The next time you see me comin’ you better run”
    Well Abe says, “Where do you want this killin’ done?”
    God says, “Out on Highway 61”

    OK, back to our regularly-scheduled solemnity.
     
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  9. Ickshter

    Ickshter Member+

    Manchester City
    Mar 14, 2014
    Nat'l Team:
    United States


    Mine that runs into my head when I walk onto the pitch of some of my "favorite" coaches.

    "Yes, I wish that for just one time you could stand inside my shoes"
    "You'd know what a drag it is to see you."
     
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  10. mattyfire

    mattyfire New Member

    Dec 7, 2012
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Asking for help here again brethren:

    NFHS. Home team scores, Away coach is yelling that they have 12 on the field. We count, they sure do, we have not restarted yet.

    We had the extra player leave and restarted with a goal kick. Obviously more diligence was needed in counting to start the game and substitutions but I would love to know what is the right decision and if there is documentation about this. I couldn’t find any for NFHS. Thanks.
     
  11. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    For FIFA (not your question) it would be a FK. It is now spelled out in Law 3. (USSF guidance, at one point, was a GK--indeed, I believe this was the issue that was different in the print and pdf versions of the ATR one year.)
     
  12. Law5

    Law5 Member+

    Mar 24, 2005
    Beaverton OR
    page 15 of the 2018-2019 NFHS rule book. Situations and Rulings, Rule 3, Section 1, 3.1.1 Situation B. "The referee observes that Team A has 12 players in the game (a) before the game is restarted following a goal by A2.... RULING: In (a), the goal is disallowed and the game is restarted with a goal kick by Team B...."
     
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  13. roby

    roby Member+

    SIRLOIN SALOON FC, PITTSFIELD MA
    Feb 27, 2005
    So Cal
  14. Soccer Dad & Ref

    Oct 19, 2017
    San Diego
    No video? Too bad that in club the most we could give out is about 24 cards.
     
  15. voiceoflg

    voiceoflg Member+

    Dec 8, 2005
    Deflategate early in the USL Final.
     
  16. JeffG

    JeffG Member

    Mar 9, 2005
    MN, USA
  17. DefRef

    DefRef Member

    Jul 3, 2017
    Storrs CT
    For NFHS, I believe you are also supposed to give a YC to the 12th player. (this is from memory as I am at work and don't have my rule book with me)
     
  18. Law5

    Law5 Member+

    Mar 24, 2005
    Beaverton OR
    The wording is that the caution is for "entering or leaving the field of play...without the permission of an official." I can just about guarantee you that in such a situation the team will insist that the referee waved them on. Problems with too many players are almost always the result of someone not leaving when a sub came on for them. There is no caution for failing to leave when a sub came on for them.
     
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  19. voiceoflg

    voiceoflg Member+

    Dec 8, 2005
    U10G state rec cup. Tripping foul just outside the PA. Five defenders run up to the ball where they form a wall and lock arms. I start to explain that is cardable, when they take ten steps backward. The kicker did not ask for ten and sent the ball over the crossbar for a goal kick. While the keeper was retrieving the ball, I tell the girls failure to respect the distance is a yellow card. Do NOT stand in front of the ball again, even if it is to step off ten on their own.

    I am amazed at how coaches teach their players to circumvent the LOTG to benefit their team. They didn't do it again.
     
  20. Sam_C

    Sam_C Member

    Manchester City
    Brazil
    Jun 19, 2018
    I have nothing against you, your opinion, or anyone else's on this matter, but I am amazed at how many other referees make a stink about this. My thoughts on the matter may not be as applicable at the U10 level, but I would be a very unhappy teammate or coach if my team got scored on because of a quick FK while my goalkeeper was taking a nap, setting up the wall, or otherwise indisposed. The best way to avoid conceding to a stupid mistake is to delay the restart in order for your team to get set; the small chance of eating a yellow card when you have a 'no-warning' type of referee is worth it against a team with a good FK taker right outside the box (of course I'm not talking about running from 20 yards away to stand on the ball). By all means, change my mind and don't get me wrong, as a referee I do enforce failure to respect the distance, but I don't see these plays in the same light as others appear to.
     
  21. SCV-Ref

    SCV-Ref Member

    Spurs
    Australia
    Feb 22, 2018
    Remember that the team taking the free kick has A RIGHT to a quick restart. It's not their problem if the GK is "napping" or that the defense thinks (incorrectly) that they have a "right" to form a wall. If I was captain or coach I would be warning my players to lookout for the quick restart.
    The onus is always on the defense to keep 10 yards from the free kick. (whether instructed to or not) It's the law. Just like it's a law that you can't kick trip someone, but referees don't run around telling players not to trip their opponent for the whole match.
    Delay the restart at your peril.
     
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  22. Rufusabc

    Rufusabc Member+

    May 27, 2004
    The problem you outline is in the two words “small chance”. Yes.
     
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  23. Sam_C

    Sam_C Member

    Manchester City
    Brazil
    Jun 19, 2018
    Of course they do, that doesn't mean a defender should rush getting out of the way in order to allow the restart to be an unobstructed shot on goal. I'm not talking about standing on the ball or trying to intercept passes (and I said as much), but when you foul a player outside the PA (the situation described earlier), there's no good reason to give the other team an opportunity to bury a free shot on net when nobody expects it. The game doesn't expect those free-kicks to be taken quickly on net, so why make a fuss about ensuring they have the chance?
     
  24. Bubba Atlanta

    Bubba Atlanta Member+

    Mar 2, 2012
    Yep, Atlanta
    Club:
    Atlanta United FC
    As a player or a coach, you adjust your game to the conditions you face. Those conditions include the referee. If the referee does not enforce DRS/FRD, why not protect yourself against the quick kick? The pros do it, why not you?

    If the ref does enforce it, then you adjust your game accordingly.

    It's up to us as referees to deal with this appropriately, but that doesn't mean railing against it. Just deal with it.
     
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  25. wguynes

    wguynes Member

    Dec 10, 2010
    Altoona, IA
    As a referee, and per our current Quick Restart instructions, I am required to interpret this coached technique as cheating because the aggrieved team has a right to a quick restart. A light form of it, yes cheating has shades of grey, but still cheating.

    That said, if a coach is going to instruct this technique then he or she would be remiss to not also teach that they risk a caution for doing it. Condoning tactical violations of the Laws carries with it a burden to emotionally prepare the players for the consequences. In addition, they should also be instructed that if a referee does sanction it to not pretend they didn't know.

    If the players are too young or too volatile that they can't handle the consequences, then they should not be taught this tactic.
     

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