Welcome Mesut Ozil! The Gunners nation salute you!

Discussion in 'Arsenal' started by charlie15, Sep 2, 2013.

  1. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You could say the same about the "leader of the free world"
     
  2. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    "Our diversity is a big part of why we are such a special club" We can only hope that's really true.

    But it's not hard to notice that the coaching staff looks all white.

    And our PR department might've chosen a photo with a bit less hint of micro-segregation, i.e. the black players all hanging together. I would've rather seen one of those great goal celebrations... a bunch of multi-racial, multi-ethnic, multi-religious dudes all piled on top of each other hugging and kissing. :D
     
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  3. lynesjc

    lynesjc Member+

    Arsenal
    United States
    Jun 21, 2001
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Would read
     
  4. lynesjc

    lynesjc Member+

    Arsenal
    United States
    Jun 21, 2001
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
  5. Fifty

    Fifty Member

    Mar 11, 2012
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And the executives
     
  6. crazy150

    crazy150 Member+

    Aug 27, 2006
    North Cuba
    It’s plenty diverse. Ozil is standing on the white side
     
  7. Super Llama

    Super Llama Member+

    May 21, 2006
    Seattle
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I may have missed some context about this from the last couple pages, but you're seriously arguing that Ozil is white?
     
  8. DaPrince84

    DaPrince84 Member+

    Aug 22, 2001
    MD
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Are you joking here? What does that have to do with the German FA and German political officials discriminating against him? What does Milan have to do with Germany?

    No one is saying Ozil's treatment is the same as being black on Earth, but we not about to let any type discrimination slide.
     
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  9. kanonier

    kanonier Member+

    Nov 7, 2005
    Bloomington, Ind.
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
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  10. crazy150

    crazy150 Member+

    Aug 27, 2006
    North Cuba
    You should read the last few pages I guess. I’m not really saying white per se, but his appearance does not give most people any insight into his background. His plight is different from that of those of African decent for example whose skin color is generally a label they can’t escape.
     
  11. crazy150

    crazy150 Member+

    Aug 27, 2006
    North Cuba
    Of course I’m not saying to let it slide. Just that this is a different form at descrimination and commentary should reflect that.
     
  12. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    People take pictures with politicians who do awful things all the freaking time. Lots of athletes took pictures with George W. Bush, who is objectively worse than Erdogan can ever dream of being.

    What I'm saying is that the outrage seems like it's in less than good faith, because as bad as Erdogan is, there are others who are much worse and about whom there has been zero outrage. And it's because of Ozil's ancestry and religion.
     
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  13. Gunning4Chelsea

    Gunning4Chelsea Member+

    Aug 2, 2005
    chicago
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No
     
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  14. kanonier

    kanonier Member+

    Nov 7, 2005
    Bloomington, Ind.
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
     
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  15. casoccerdad47

    casoccerdad47 Member+

    Mar 31, 2006
    I'm on the opposite end of the political spectrum and I wouldn't characterize W that way. Cheney maybe, but not W, W started a war that that has made the world less safe, but he wasn't a totalitarian. A more appropriate comparison is Putin. We know he has had political opponents and former spies, who have defected to the west, assassinated. If Erdogan is doing this, it is not yet common knowledge.
     
  16. thebigman

    thebigman Member+

    May 25, 2006
    Birmingham
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    The Iraq and Afghanistan wars have displaced and killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people

    Bush was in charge and over saw that sgit
     
  17. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  18. Emperor_Norton

    Jun 14, 2007
    True, but Hoeness would do anything to protect Bayern. And you could argue that making Özil a scapegoat serves Bayern`s interests, because it deflects from the terrible performance of Bayern`s German internationals at the WC.
     
  19. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    The sour grapes against Kroos from the Bayern quarter is also really noticeable.

    They can't go too hard because he won so much, but they are always suggesting he is not really very good but just cashed in on the Real quality
     
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  20. Emperor_Norton

    Jun 14, 2007
    No, you are absolutely right. Uli Hoeness is absolutely narcisstic and similar to Donald Trump. The thing is: he is regarded is the main architect for Bayern`s role as the dominating force in German football. He could literally kill people in public and most Bayern fans would forgive him.
     
  21. Emperor_Norton

    Jun 14, 2007
    Erdogan is slowly transforming Turkey into a dictatorship. Many German-Turks follow Turkish media and go to Turkish mosques. Erdogan is basically in charge of both. So obviously, from a German point of view, the latest developments in Turkey are worrysome. He has a huge influence on the Turkish community in Germany and elsewhere in Europa and he is speaking out against the "crime of assimilation".

    Generally speaking, German-Turks (as well as Dutch and Austrian Turks) are more conservative than Turks living in Istanbul.
     
  22. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Without wanting to step into whataboutism, from the Turkish perspective, DFB, Hoeness etc have done much to confirm what they've always suspected - and this pushes them further to Erdogan

    That is why this was all so stupid

    By all accounts Ozil has resisted that pull down the years and reasserted that he is german first

    I suspect that feeling is gone now
     
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  23. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    A million people died because of the Iraq War. There’s a direct line between the Iraq War and the rise of ISIS.

    That body count is, objectively speaking, orders of magnitude worse than anything Erdogan could dream of doing.
     
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  24. DutchFanatic

    DutchFanatic Member

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Dec 23, 2013
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Nah, you clearly don’t live in Europe. The autochthonous population absolutely recognize and stigmatize people of Turkish, Moroccan, Libyan, Algerian, etc. descent, especially in a place like Germany. They may not be able to distinguish between those countries, but they definitely recognize when someone has an immigrant background from Turkey or northern africa, despite the fact that they might not be as obviously different looking to you.
    Those lines a blur a bit more in the Mediterranean countries because of the Moorish geneology having historically been mixed in.
     
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  25. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    There is certainly a view that western aggression caused the refugee crisis and then the right wing headbangers don't want to help and label migrants as terrorists and criminals. Meanwhile Turkey itself took a heavy load

    So in the german political context when you say Erdolf is the bad guy, lots of Turks have the opposite view

    And that divide is why it was a dumb mistake to escalate this
     
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